The Spirit in relation to the Soul

A thought that has never been concrete in my mind is the relation of the human spirit in relation to the soul.

What I know from research is that they are borne as very tightly knit concepts and at sometimes are used in the place of each other. Yet still I have always found that they each have their own unique principals. I have not studied this in depth and do not have my notes on hand.

What I have come to know is that the spirit is a sort of teacher of the soul being a sort of message board, as it relays subtle messages and understanding to the soul, from whoever the whole being comes into contact with.

Feel free to post ideas, sources, and other information, as this seems to be a topic of both interest and misunderstanding(at least for myself.

Peace to all.

The soul is the individuation of the Spirit in my opinion. Everyone shares the same Spirit but everyone has a unique soul (perspective). The soul is one with the Spirit but the Spirit is greater than the soul if that makes sense.

The Spirit is what regulates heartbeat, breathing, sleep/wake state, etc. while the soul is the unique person that has a unique perspective compared to other souls. There are many souls but one Spirit and all souls are connected to and one with the Spirit. Without the Spirit there is only dead flesh but when the Spirit is one with the body that is when life is formed and a soul (individual) is created.

Here is what i think. You are created as flesh and in the first 3 months your spirit joins the flesh. Then at around age 4-5 you are then joined again by yet another spirit. Then at age 12-13 you are joined yet again by another spirit, All these forces are inside you battling for dominance over the flesh. I think it may even tie into the right,left and frontal sections in the brain as having nodal points that can be used by these joining spirits. Then we have the pinal gland that can be accessd by what we call God,Jesus and the holy spirit. At around age 30 you start to gain back some of the control over your life that was taken in your youth. That is the point when often we are introduced to higher truths and understanding.

There are so many amazing interpretations throughout the centuries. Interestingly, in modern times, it seems that less and less of a distinction is made and they are used by some interchangeably. Good directions of study are everything from "psuche" even to "ohr" (in kabbalah).

The distinction I make is that the soul is the amalgamation of products of the mind. Everything from thoughts to feelings, etc.

The spirit refers to a concept beyond physicality, which is an arena that is quite difficult to discuss physically! In a way, it is the inverse function of our physical soul, connected through the conduit that links the medium of spacetime with the timeless.

a reply to: backcase

The Hebrew word translated "soul" in the Old Testament is nephesh, which simply means "a breathing creature." Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words defines nephesh as "the essence of life, the act of breathing, taking breath ... The problem with the English term 'soul' is that no actual equivalent of the term or the idea behind it is represented in the Hebrew language. The Hebrew system of thought does not include the combination or opposition of the 'body' and 'soul' which are really Greek and Latin in origin" (1985, p. 237-238, emphasis added).

The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible makes this comment on nephesh: "The word 'soul' in English, though it has to some extent naturalized the Hebrew idiom, frequently carries with it overtones, ultimately coming from philosophical Greek (Platonism) and from Orphism and Gnosticism which are absent in 'nephesh.' In the OT it never means the immortal soul, but it is essentially the life principle, or the living being, or the self as the subject of appetite, and emotion, occasionally of volition" (Vol. 4, 1962, "Soul," emphasis added).

That nephesh doesn't refer to an immortal soul can be seen in the way the word is used in the Old Testament. It is translated "soul" or "being" in reference to man in Genesis:2:7, but also to animals by being translated "creature" in Genesis:1:24. Nephesh is translated "body" in Leviticus:21:11 in reference to a human corpse.

The Hebrew Scriptures state plainly that, rather than possess immortality, the soul can and does die. "The soul [nephesh ] who sins shall die" (Ezekiel:18:4, Ezekiel:18:20).

The Old Testament describes the dead as going to sheol, translated into English as "hell," "pit" or "grave." Ecclesiastes:9:5-6 describes sheol as a place of unconsciousness: "For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished ..."

King David laments that death extinguishes a relationship with God. "For in death there is no remembrance of You; in the grave who will give You thanks?" (Psalm:6:5).

The immortal-soul concept isn't part of the Old Testament, but it began to make inroads into Jewish thought as Jews came in contact with Greek culture. In the first century the Jewish philosopher Philo taught a Platonic concept: "... The death of a man is the separation of his soul from his body ..." ( The Works of Philo, translated by C.D. Yonge, 1993, p. 37). Philo followed the Hellenistic view that the soul is freed upon death to an everlasting life of virtue or evil.
The Apostles' View

In the New Testament the Greek word translated "soul" is psuche, which is also translated "life."

In Psalm:16:10 David uses nephesh ("soul") to claim that the "Holy One," or Messiah, wouldn't be left in sheol, the grave. Peter quotes this verse in Acts:2:27, using the Greek psuche for the Hebrew nephesh (notice verses 25-31).

Like nephesh, psuche refers to human "souls" (Acts:2:41) and for animals (it is translated "life" in the King James Version of Revelation:8:9 and Revelation:16:3). Jesus declared that God can destroy man's psuche, or "soul" (Matthew:10:28).

If the Old Testament describes death as an unconscious state, how does the New Testament describe it?

No one wrote more about this subject than the apostle Paul. He describes death as "sleep" (1 Corinthians:15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians:4:13-18).

Many people are surprised to find that the term immortal soul appears nowhere in the Bible. However, though the Scriptures do not speak of the soul as being immortal, they have much to say about immortality. For example: "You know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him" (1 John:3:15).

Paul told the members of the congregation in Rome to "seek" immortality (Romans:2:5-7). He taught Christians at Corinth that they must be changed and "put on" immortality (1 Corinthians:15:51-55). Paul proclaimed that only God and His Son possess immortality (1 Timothy:6:12-16) and that eternal life is a "gift" from God (Romans:6:23).

The most powerful words come from Jesus Himself: "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day" (John:6:40).


We've seen in this brief look at the supposedly immortal soul that the Bible teaches no such concept. The idea filtered into Western thought through Greek philosophy. Its origins are older than Athens, in fact as old as man.

The concept of the immortal soul was introduced into man's thinking at the earliest beginnings of human history. God told the first human beings, Adam and Eve, that if they sinned they would die and return to the dust from which He had created them (Genesis:2:17; Genesis:3:19). Satan, the embodiment of evil, the powerful entity who opposes God, assured them they wouldn't die (verses 1-5).

Satan slyly injected into Eve's consciousness the notion that God was lying and that she and her husband would not die, thus ingraining the unscriptural teaching of the immortality of the soul into human thought. Satan has since deceived the world on this important understanding as well as many other biblical truths (Revelation:12:9). Much of the world, including millions of people in religions outside of traditional Christianity, are convinced they have—or are—immortal souls and hope they will go to a happy place or state of being immediately after they die.

Yet the Bible plainly teaches that the dead lie in the grave and know nothing, think no thoughts, have no emotions, possess no consciousness. Does this mean death, the cessation of life, is final, the end of everything?

The Bible answers this question too. Although mankind is physical, subject to death, the good news is that God promises a resurrection to eternal life to everyone who repents, worships God and accepts Jesus as the Messiah and His sacrifice.

www.ucg.org...

Let's put it this way.

Imagine a car ( we are the car ). Just a car. For the car to start first it needs fuel. The Spirit is the fuel. Our Spirit is what gives us life is what move this fleshy body. For the car to move somewhere (with a sense of meaning), needs a driver. The Soul is our driver, is the one that makes us conscious, and drive us wherever we want, with meaning.

Just thinking.

Your entire creation never ceases to praise you and is never silent. Every spirit continually praised you with mouth turned upwards towards you; animals and physical matter find a voice through those who contemplate them.

-St. Augustine (confessions)

a reply to: OpinionatedB

The Hebrew word translated "soul" in the Old Testament is nephesh, which simply means "a breathing creature." Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words defines nephesh as "the essence of life, the act of breathing, taking breath ...

Actually, according to Hebrew tradition, the "soul" is a flame. In my opinion, the spirit is more the "breath" that sustains us. When "God" blew "the breath of life" into Adam, He became alive.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

By blowing on "His Image", God ignited the fire of His essence into the body of mankind.

An ember glows and with a puff of our breath explodes into light, a candle burns and with that same out-breath can be extinguished. The Torah describes God's breath fluttering on the surface of the waters.Ê Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Even the flame extinguished has sent its influence forward as expanding heat and light. Is a soul only within the body - or is the body like the wick upon which the flame dances and when released where and how does the energy go?

The flame can be seen as a primary Jewish metaphor for the soul. Judaism enjoins us to be careful lest we put out the flame of someone's soul through careless or deliberate words or acts.

There are five levels of the soul according to Jewish mystical tradition. These levels form a powerful opportunity to increase awareness of what it is to have a soul.

SOURCE



Every living thing contains the "Divine Spark" of the Flame, that is God. This is the eternal soul.

The breath that keeps us alive, allows us to speak and gives us airs, is the spirit, which is not eternal.

That's avery interesting idea considering all the changes that take place within the human person. But to counter that Iwould mention the last speaker among the ground friends of job Job who says that man is not wise when he becomes old in age, but he it's wise whenever the Spirit of the Lord comes upon him.

t=18874634]deadeyedick[/post]

a reply to: windword

That was the Holy Spirit. That is what is meant by "taking on immortality" but for that today, after the fall of Adam and the veil which came down with it, we must go through Jesus and the cross to get that Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. Man has no immortality.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Quick question

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" - Matthew 10:28

How do you reconcile that which you've learned with this line of scripture?

JW's teach the same thing which has caused me a deal of strife.

There is more scripture that just about outright contradicts the grave being the end for many.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

That was the Holy Spirit.

What was the Holy Spirit? Are you referring to the Old Testament's "Angel of the Lord"?

That is what is meant by "taking on immortality" but for that today, after the fall of Adam and the veil which came down with it, we must go through Jesus and the cross to get that Spirit.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

According to Jewish tradition, the Soul is a Flame. So is God. The candle wick, our bodies, are the fuel on which the Flame of God, the Soul, dances.

a reply to: windword

The Bible describes God as “a consuming fire” (Hebrews 12:29), so fire often appears as a symbol of God’s presence. Examples include the burning bush (Exodus 3:2), the Shekinah glory (Exodus 14:19; Numbers 9:14-15), and Ezekiel’s vision (Ezekiel 1:4). Fire has many times been an instrument of God’s judgment (Numbers 11:1, 3; 2 Kings 1:10, 12) and a sign of His power (Judges 13:20; 1 Kings 18:38).

The Spirit is like a fire in at least three ways: He brings God’s presence, God’s passion, and God’s purity. The Holy Spirit is the presence of God as He indwells the heart of the believer (Romans 8:9). In the Old Testament, God showed His presence to the Israelites by overspreading the tabernacle with fire (Numbers 9:14-15). This fiery presence provided light and guidance (Numbers 9:17-23). In the New Testament, God guides and comforts His children with the Holy Spirit dwelling in our bodies—the “tabernacle” and the “temple of the living God” (2 Corinthians 5:1; 6:16).

At the very beginning of the New Testament, the Holy Spirit is associated with fire. John the Baptist predicts that Jesus will be the One to “baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire” (Matthew 3:11).

A flame is made of fire.

a reply to: Artanis667

The reconciliation is in what we decide to put on. We can clothe ourselves in God's immortality (in which we share the rewards of heaven and HIS eternal presence) or we take on the immortality of the fallen angels, and serve their punishment. But the punishment is reserved for the angels, so if we take on their immortality we then also take on their punishment.

But I do not believe everyone will be punished with the angels. Only those who serve the fallen angels will. I do believe some will simply not continue on however.

And I do apologize, I saw windword reply to me and somehow missed yours for a minute.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

The Old Testament God is NOT a Trinity. It's expression is 4 fold in nature, and 5 fold when expressed in plural.

The Human Soul is expressed as a Flame in Jewish/Hebrew Tradition. "The Spirit of the Lord" is the flutter of God's "breath", like a solar wind.

Do you think that unsaved people don't have a spirit? What you're suggesting, if I understand you correctly, is that neither humanity as a whole, nor individuals, have a spirit other than the "Holy Spirit" as introduced in the New Testament. According to you, the Holy Spirit is distinctly separated from our intrinsic sinful nature, and absent from an unsaved individual.

In my understanding, the OP is musing on the relationship between the Human Soul and the Human Spirit. How does your Christian proselytization of Jesus Christ, the Cross and your comment of John the Baptist's supposed prediction of "baptism by fire" relate to that subject? What does Baptism even got to with anything at all?

a reply to: windword

Awesome information on the soul. I have studied kabbalah at a point in my life and found it to be very in accord with Christ's teachings and also what I have learned from my own experience.

Do you have more information on the human spirit which you claim is both separate from the soul and not immortal? Maybe its role as it pertains to us?

Spirit, from Latin "spiritus", or breath. From spirare, or to breathe. Once breathing stops, no more spirit.

a reply to: backcase

Thanks!

The Kabbalah can be quite the rabbit hole! But, I've found a lot of insight in the Kabbalah at the Meru Foundation

www.meru.org...



Good luck in your search!

IMO, the soul is uniquely you and uniquely yours. It makes you who you are.

The Spirit is eternal and omnipresent. It is our potential to connection to God if we can embrace it. The soul that connects to the Spirit, clothes itself in the Spirit, can be eternal with the Spirit and reconciled with God.

Christ was the physical representation of this and showed and taught us the way. We humble ourselves. We accept. We have faith and we both forgive and ask forgiveness.

Without God and the Spirit and without the flesh, I'm not sure the soul can survive long on its own. I've heard it said that Hell is not so much the pit of fire as it is utter separation from God. In life, we are not so separated from the Spirit. It's always there waiting for us to embrace it, but in Hell, the soul is completely cut off from that. So perhaps Hell and torment are simply the dying soul being painfully aware of it's utter isolation and desolation as it gutters out?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Spirit, from Latin "spiritus", or breath. From spirare, or to breathe. Once breathing stops, no more spirit.

You believe so? I think there is more to it than that.

And what of the soul?