Arnold 4-Prez might = Foreign Control of U.S.

Okay, first off this isn't exactly a conspiracy, but it's close enough that I figured it belongs here. Secondly, I think Arnold would make a very charismatic president, and possibly even a good one. Thirdly, I don't want this to be interpreted as a racist or intolerant post. This is strictly a review of perhaps why the Constitution shouldn't be changed.

It's getting talked about more and more, "Should the U.S. Constitution be ammended to allow someone who was not born an American to run for the Presidency?"

The biggest circles I see advocating this are the ones who would like to see our beloved Arnold Schwartzenegger in the Oval Office. (For those of you who live in movie-land, this was also prophesized in the movie "Demolition Man".) But there are other advocates as well, especially among the Latino Communities, and they are all gaining momentum.

This is my concern...

There comes a time when Political Correctness, and love and acceptance of our fellow non-American born humans needs to have a limit, and that limit, in my humble opinion, should be before the level of the Presidency.

I realize this is probably the wrong forum in which to suggest this, as many people here are either not U.S. citizens, or are and hate the U.S. government, or flat don't care... but it doesn't change the fact that this issue does need serious examination before open acceptance.

My reason for saying so is this...

There's a saying that "Blood runs thicker than water". It basically states that your family is your family, no matter what, or how horrible they are, there's some involuntary bond that ties you to them, whether you want it to or not. Someone born in America has that sort of bond with the country. Even if one is an expatriot, living in France, and cussing out the Yanks from sunup to sundown, America is still Family, and that bond will never quite go away. I believe this is probably true of any country, really, and not just limited to America.

Put like this...if a U.S. naturalized citizen born in Nation-X became President of the United States, and they had to make a very hard decision regarding Nation-X, would they truly be able to act in the best interests of America, or might their reason be swayed by their homeland? And even if they did act in the best interests of America, would the populace believe them?

Perhaps even a more extreme example to consider... say Nation-Z has a very high population of immigrants and influence in America, is very patient, and whose emmigrant population are actually still quite loyal to Nation-Z. Nation-Z works to train a good citizen to be excellent Presidential material, providing them the best of training, education, charm, wit, etc... If the constitution allows those born outside the U.S. to become President, all that needs to happen for a bloodless coup is for he or she to be elected. I realize this is also a long shot, and rather out-there as far as possibilities go, but is technically and legally possible once we do not require the President to have been born on American soil. A foreign country could literally gain control of the United States without ever declaring war... at least for 4 years... And as long as any laws weren't broken, they could do whatever they needed to ensure it happens again...and again...and again...

There is also the possibility of a sleeper as the President. Perhaps there is no bloodless coup at all, but instead the foreign born president watches intently, and takes lots and lots of mental notes about every detail of security and procedure that another country could use.

Now, of all these, I think only the first is the most likely concern, but the latter two are certainly possible as well.

So while we may want Arnold as President, the cost in terms of our country's future presidents may be too high. I'm curious for your thoughts. And please do not interpret this as racist or bigoted; I've done all I could to keep this limited to legal and political loopholes, or inherent moral paradigms. If this comes across as offensive, I'll try to find a better way to word it.

You are right, these are several concerns for a foreign born citizen to becoming President. And don't worry, you don't sound bigoted at all.

However, you also stated that blood runs thicker than water. And I am going to use this in my reasoning. American born citizens will probably have a tendency to vote for someone from their country, rather than a naturalized citizen. Simply because they might feel more safe with someone from their own country, they might feel that they know the populace better, etc. Except in the case of Arnie. He has massive clout, and just about everyone loves him, because they grew up seeing his face in the movies. Now if a country wants to run the U.S., the canidate for Presidency is going to have to live here a very long time in a position where he is in the public eye. Just like Arnold.

There is also the fact that the President can be stopped. Supreme court, or the people can get him out of office. Although it has only happened once, if the need arises and the people are smart enough to know what is going on, then they can get him out of office.

The reasons above are why I am for letting naturalized citizens run for President. One thing though, I believe that for someone to be President, they have to live here for fourteen years, maybe for naturalized citizens, up that to 20+ years, just as a cautionary movement.

I don't think that a person who was born, and especially born and raised, in another country will ever be able to adequately seperate their interests for their native country from that of the US, at least no insofar as the office of the presidency is concerned. In particular I can't imagine a person from another country being willing to destroy that country thru warfare, should it be neccesary.

Interestingly, people tend to not think that way for someone born in the US andwho spent the majority of their life, even the early years, in another country.

I see your point, i think that could well happen, its human nature, not to mention that folk would expect it aswell.
personally I have more of a problem with the whole concept of national presidency in your country, Your president seems to have excessive power and very little "people control" outside voting him in. I think as much power as you folk give your presidents is dangerous in the hands of any one man, no matter who he is or where from. For instance, the presidents orders seem to be invilable, no one dares disobey.
Ill cite for sake of this thread, a well publicised incident involving former president Reagan. Its alledged that during his period in office there occured an incident in which he was actually prepared to push the button.
Im sure someone will be familiar with it.
My point being that had he decided, whos going to say no? Such scenario
would only take an error of judgement on the part of one single man, to cause a holocaust.
surely then the "presidency" would be better as a group concept, ie presidential commitee of so many members, rather than a single person.
Then you'd need all in agreeance before such a drastic action (or any bad judgement) could go ahead.
Human nature as you point out is fallible and not without error and bias.
If the president who is from country x has to decide a serious matter involving country x and another , he could well take your example to my extreme. Just my thinking, i sure hope no national leader ever makes such erronous judgement from the seat of power.

Originally posted by instar
personally I have more of a problem with the whole concept of national presidency in your country, Your president seems to have excessive power and very little "people control" outside voting him in.

Well, there's not a lot I can do about that though... I mean it's just kind of the way the country is. That and, really, he doesn't have unlimited power, like say, Kim Il Jung in Korea. He can be openly vilified by the press for something as minor as an inappropriate cigar with a secretary, and impeached for not wanting his wife to find out. In Korea, if you see the head of state commit an illegal act, you just hope to god no one sees -you-.

Additionally, the President's greatest power (the big red button) is held in check by Congress. For instance, Bush could not just open the football (the remote control for our nuclear arsenol in a briefcase) and decide to target Oz and fire. Congress basically has to approve it first. This is to prevent the actions of one man from ending the world.

If he can run for governor or US senator I see no reason to stop at the Presidency. He is a US citizen is he not? so what is the reason behind the law?

This is no longer idle speculation. I am with The Libra on this one. If Arnold truly loved the America we all swear to 'preserve, protect, and defend' in the guise of the Constitution, he would not dare to suggest altering what to Americans is the closest thing on Earth to a holy document. The Framers wrote this prohibition with Benedict Arnold and the possibility of counter-revolution in mind.

By even suggesting this, Arnold has already violated the Oath he wishes to be given.

If this happens, better be ready to head North or South before The Will To Power shows its true face.

[edit on 14-12-2004 by Chakotay]

Some things in the US are indigenous. US Presidents are one of them. Let's keep it that way, eh? Some good points have been brought out here about why we should never accept anything less than a President that has been born and raised in this country, and I agree with all of them. There should never be a President who may be faced with a question of allegiance to a country in the face of national security or a national emergency.

What if an Iranian becomes a US president. Then Iran launches a rogue nuke at us. What now? His decision to retaliate may be based on his own unwillingness to kill his entire family who resides in Tehran, for example. NO NO NO and NO. Bad news.

While I'm not American I don't think the constitution should be changed to allow non-American born citizens to run for president.

I don't think the constitution should be changed in any circumstance, much less one regarding an issue like this.

Regarding Arnold, he'd be just like any other president, IMO. Dependent on the people behind the scenes.

And it's not that I think Arnold himself would be a bad President. I'm really not afraid of Austria enacting a coup on the U.S. ...He might even be a really great president. But the groundwork that must be laid before he could become President seems just too dangerous and destabilizing to the country.

Originally posted by thelibra
And it's not that I think Arnold himself would be a bad President. I'm really not afraid of Austria enacting a coup on the U.S. ...He might even be a really great president. But the groundwork that must be laid before he could become President seems just too dangerous and destabilizing to the country.

The Skull & Bones Posse are the ones who supply the Presidential candidates and the CIA are the ones who ensure it happens.

I think that what you are really afraid of is losing to Arnold in a Presidential election and therefore scuppering you plans for global domination, thats just me reading between the lines.

as much as i respect arnolds methed of running CA as govner If by some chance it passes to alow him to run I alone with most people I know would vote against him even to the point of it being (Dare i say it?) a bush or kerry.
The point is valed to say that your birth place ties are never quite goin even if you moved countless years agaio.
Im oringly from PA and have lived in florida for well over 20 years now but at times I still miss my birth place and I hated growing up there. this shows that even if the place is tearbel you still feal ties to it.
Its a darn shame to I think arnold would make a great presedent but its just not worth the risk of running into problems with his home country.

Originally posted by Koka
I think that what you are really afraid of is losing to Arnold in a Presidential election and therefore scuppering you plans for global domination, thats just me reading between the lines.

Who have you been talking to?!?! Who told you this!?!?!
It must have been Griff! He'll pay... Simmons, I want you to poison Griff's next meal!

Now that you know, I to make one thing very clear. If you don't support my quest for World Domination, there will be no extra potato ration for you. Do I make myself clear?