When the human race is gone which animal do you think will evolve into the next intelligent species?

originally posted by: looneylupinsrevenge
It's actually rather common now for the pets and not the humans to be the master, you only need to do a search for dominance issues with dogs and you should find tons of links describing the problem and solution. It really doesn't take a large brain capacity to become the "master" in any situation, it honestly only takes a change in your state of mind, today we call someone confident (not cocky... BIG difference) if they possess that state of mind. However, animals do this to, infact they do it far better than we do. In the wild a group of animals will establish a "pecking" order rather quickly, with the stronger of the group getting more food and more mates. While the weaker of the group will have to settle/fight for the scraps left behind (kind of like today's social climate actually).

This is true. My cat is definitely the master of me, and it's been that way since he was a kitten. I shouldn't give in to him every time he begs, but I'm a sucker and believe in freedom overall, and pretty much let him do whatever he wants and spoil him. I made a promise that after my last cat died, I'd honor her memory by spoiling the hell of out this guy. He's not stupid either. He purposely meows and adjusts the tone, adding extra syllables and whatnot, to almost mimick human sounding words. He's always searching for that perfect meow tone to make me attend to him immediately. Many folks think cats are dumb because you normally can't teach them to fetch, or command them around like dogs, but if a cat doesn't want to do something, they are not going to do it and they know how to manipulate humans. Cuteness is a weapon. They will take over soon enough

No animal is going to evolve into an intelligent species without genetic modification.

a reply to: TrueMessiah

Why? we did all without any mods.
Given enough time others will follow and Iam going racoon at the moment.

I'm sticking with the human model that is throughout the universe and multiverse, and progressed human model, to angelic eventually, as its the most beautiful by far.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: TrueMessiah

Why? we did all without any mods.

Maybe. There are some theories that we were seeded here.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: TrueMessiah

Why? we did all without any mods.
Given enough time others will follow and Iam going racoon at the moment.

I beg to differ, reasons why would open a can of worms.
Let me ask you a question, why is it taking all these species so long? Our closest relatives the apes have been in the same state since we as a underdeveloped species walked along beside them.

So some recent dig turned up a 3.8 Million year old human fossil... It took us (humans) a while before we got to where we are now. Unfortunately, in the years since the industrial revolution we've pretty much broken everything, so whatever comes after us won't have much time left to properly develop to where we are now!

That said, and borrowing from above posts, hopefully whatever it is will be 'smart' enough to not do what we did. We're rubbish. We broke the water supply, the air, the dirt, the food, each others' stuff, and each other. Not that smart, if you ask me.

Sure we can go to the moon etc., but we can't seem to agree on anything on a bigger scale. We also have a bunch of people trying to oppress others. Whoever follows us might be smart enough to be nice to each other, not break stuff, and work towards a better world for all. That's not humanity at all.

Cynical, and depressing? Yes. It is.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I vote for birds too, not just the crow family but parrots as well.

I have witnessed my own parakeets (budgies) make discoveries on their own, such as water comes out of the kitchen faucet and can be bathed in. I've also witnessed the first bird teach that knowledge to the other, who then figured out that water comes out of the bathroom faucet as well.

Factor in the social structure of birds and just how well their feet and beaks can manipulate objects, they have potential.

originally posted by: TrueMessiah
I beg to differ, reasons why would open a can of worms.
Let me ask you a question, why is it taking all these species so long? Our closest relatives the apes have been in the same state since we as a underdeveloped species walked along beside them.

Evolution doesn't follow any set time table so your question is moot.

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

I beg to differ, reasons why would open a can of worms.

Oh no... you already cracked the can open. Please show us what lies within.

Let me ask you a question, why is it taking all these species so long?

exactly what time table do you presuppose is in effect for evolution? is there some constant rate of mutation you are privy to that evolutionary biologists refuse to disclose?

Our closest relatives the apes have been in the same state since we as a underdeveloped species walked along beside them.

Complete jabberwocky. all other apes currently living today are fully modern species. They have not been in evolutionary stasis for millions of years with no morphological flux as your post seems to imply.

Thinking that a species evolves in order to survive is to put the cart before the horse. Genetic mutations happen all the time, without fanfare or parades and often without any measurable change in the organism's lifestyle. In general, the mutations most likely to be passed to future generations are those that prove useful to either individual or species survival.

The "usefulness" of a mutation depends largely on shifting environmental factors like those of food, predators, and climate, and also on social pressures. Evolution is a matter of filling ecological and social niches. African apes are still around because their environment has encouraged the reproductive success of individuals with different genetic material than ours.

If you think this is wrong, please feel free to spend a week or two naked in the Congo and see who does better, you or the mountain gorillas.

Uh oh...I feel I feel I'm treading dangerous waters here being out of my element (that being the alien/UFO forum). I feel kind of like a solider on enemy soil down to my last magazine and grenade with my communication device now inoperable. I sense you guys are a tad bit more friendly than a organization like ISIS so there's still hope.

originally posted by: Barcs
Evolution doesn't follow any set time table so your question is moot.

Are you implying that one day they are going to eventually reach homo sapiens level intelligence?

originally posted by: peter vlar
Oh no... you already cracked the can open. Please show us what lies within.

exactly what time table do you presuppose is in effect for evolution? is there some constant rate of mutation you are privy to that evolutionary biologists refuse to disclose?

Oh there's no time table. For the sake of this thread, I was approaching this from the standpoint of the apes obtaining the same level of intelligence as humans.

originally posted by: peter vlar
Complete jabberwocky. all other apes currently living today are fully modern species. They have not been in evolutionary stasis for millions of years with no morphological flux as your post seems to imply.

I was alluding to them being unable to achieve the same level intelligence as humans. That's all. If it sort came off as me saying that they were somewhat evolutionary stagnant outside of the intelligence issue I apologize. That wasn't what I was trying to say.

originally posted by: peter vlar
Thinking that a species evolves in order to survive is to put the cart before the horse. Genetic mutations happen all the time, without fanfare or parades and often without any measurable change in the organism's lifestyle. In general, the mutations most likely to be passed to future generations are those that prove useful to either individual or species survival.

The "usefulness" of a mutation depends largely on shifting environmental factors like those of food, predators, and climate, and also on social pressures. Evolution is a matter of filling ecological and social niches. African apes are still around because their environment has encouraged the reproductive success of individuals with different genetic material than ours.

If you think this is wrong, please feel free to spend a week or two naked in the Congo and see who does better, you or the mountain gorillas.

There's nothing wrong with what you said here. In fact I agree.
I do however have something to say about that last sentence though. Keep in mind we're only dealing with the premise of higher intelligence here. Someone authored a thread on the human family tree (can't remember who) which showed our ancestors, Australopithecus being the root. They were coexisting alongside those gorillas and other apes basically being on the same evolutionary level (Australopithecus maybe a little higher?). They had the same influencing environmental factors and had to fill those same ecological niches that you mentioned but something happened. The line we humans descended from all of a sudden took off. Over time, different versions of the Homo genus started to appear. All with increased brain matter and capacity coinciding with each succeeding species that emerged. Subsequently, the intelligence grew as well.

At this point I think you know where I'm going with this and I know there aren't too many who favor these theories and hypothesis' but I firmly believe that we were genetically manipulated and helped in our progression to this current state. All these different homo genus' and species were genetic experiments of extraterrestrials. We are the finalized end result. That's why in the first post I made in this thread, I said that no animal will achieve the same level of intelligence without genetic modification.

Now of course I can't prove the existence of ETs with 'undeniable' proof before you or anyone else comes asking. I have the same prob over in the other forum and it drives me nuts over there. If you disagree totally then that's fine. I just wanted to give you and others who are tuning in my perspective.

a reply to: TrueMessiah

It was me

a reply to: TrueMessiah

Kind of short on time and may very well add a more detailed reply in the morning but I appreciate the reply and context you provided. I can't say I'm on the same page as you and your hypothesis but I do nonetheless appreciate the concise reply as it gives a better understanding of where you're coming from and whether I agree with they perspective or not isnt as relevant as understanding your point of view so thank you.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Oh ok cool.
The only thing I could remember was the chart in the OP illustrating the family tree.

originally posted by: TrueMessiah
Are you implying that one day they are going to eventually reach homo sapiens level intelligence?

I'm just saying that it's a possibility. It depends on the environment and numerous other factors. You asked what was taking certain species "so long" to evolve. I answered your question. Change or improvement is never guaranteed, so there is no time table where you can expect to see major evolutionary changes in a single lifetime. A species can take as little or as much time as it needs. A well adapted creature isn't pressured and has no real need to change aside from genetic drift. If humans die off, and the environment goes through numerous big changes that lead to extinctions and new niches, it could certainly happen in 10 million years or so considering what happened with humans in the last 8 with numerous hominid ancestors that show slow brain size increase over that time. Give it 100 million years and all bets are off.

Oh there's no time table. For the sake of this thread, I was approaching this from the standpoint of the apes obtaining the same level of intelligence as humans.

Well humans ARE classified as apes plus our common ancestor with chimps goes back 8 million years.

I was alluding to them being unable to achieve the same level intelligence as humans. That's all. If it sort came off as me saying that they were somewhat evolutionary stagnant outside of the intelligence issue I apologize. That wasn't what I was trying to say.

May I ask why you think they would be unable to ever attain that level?

They were coexisting alongside those gorillas and other apes basically being on the same evolutionary level (Australopithecus maybe a little higher?). They had the same influencing environmental factors and had to fill those same ecological niches that you mentioned but something happened.

First the niches were not the same. 2nd genetic mutations affect different species on different levels. You can't just expect that since one line increased cranial capacity over millions of years, that they all will. Different genes, different mutations, different environmental factors.

The line we humans descended from all of a sudden took off. Over time, different versions of the Homo genus started to appear. All with increased brain matter and capacity coinciding with each succeeding species that emerged. Subsequently, the intelligence grew as well.

The only problem is there is nothing sudden about it. If you look at hominids skulls over the last few million years, you see a slow increase in brain size. You also have the earth going through glacial periods roughly every 100k years, so intelligence became an important survival trait. Problem solving skills are IMO the main reason why homo sapiens rule the earth today and why Neanderthal, Homo erectus, and Denisovans all disappeared during the last ice age.

At this point I think you know where I'm going with this and I know there aren't too many who favor these theories and hypothesis' but I firmly believe that we were genetically manipulated and helped in our progression to this current state. All these different homo genus' and species were genetic experiments of extraterrestrials. We are the finalized end result. That's why in the first post I made in this thread, I said that no animal will achieve the same level of intelligence without genetic modification.

It's a possibility, but IMO unlikely since the process took 3 million + years. Then you have to ask, where did the alien intelligence come from? Somewhere along the line it's going to have to have evolved, unless you're going for a supreme being type scenerio. But if evolution of high intelligence can happen with the aliens that seeded us, it can happen with us. I'm big into ancient alien theory, but a 3 million year long process to engineer humans, doesn't seem like something an already intelligent species would waste time on. I'd think that if they were masters of genetics and were capable of those things, they could have done it instantly, rather than slowly over time exactly as evolution works naturally.

I'm not saying it's wrong, it could be part of the picture, but if so it happened alongside of evolution. I don't see sudden changes, I see a long process of small changes adding up over time helping a species survive better than another one.

When the human race destroys itself the entire planet Earth is going with us, so, to be quite honest, there will be no new intelligent species following our exit from existence.







a reply to: boymonkey74

originally posted by: Asynchrony
When the human race destroys itself the entire planet Earth is going with us, so, to be quite honest, there will be no new intelligent species following our exit from existence.

That's quite pessimistic. I feel that even if humans mess up the earth that badly, it will eventually recover. We aren't above nature or planet earth. You give humans too much credit and not enough to mother earth, IMO. She's been through far worse than the human parasite.

Dogs. They're next in line.
I don't know why. Just because they're awesome.

I don't think so. Humanity will destroy itself and take Earth with it. The chances for our survival as a planetary species lands in the very thin zone where those who truly can make a brighter future for mankind are so small in number that it's near inconceivable for them to turn it all around. I would say that perhaps a small number of humans could survive and build an arcadia for the highest of our species on another planet such as Mars or a moon then watch humanity destroy itself. When the Earth humans are extinct, our Martian cousins could return.

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: Asynchrony
When the human race destroys itself the entire planet Earth is going with us, so, to be quite honest, there will be no new intelligent species following our exit from existence.

That's quite pessimistic. I feel that even if humans mess up the earth that badly, it will eventually recover. We aren't above nature or planet earth. You give humans too much credit and not enough to mother earth, IMO. She's been through far worse than the human parasite.

Cockroaches.

The cockroaches have been patiently waiting for the day when we push the red button so they can finally take over the world.

Once that happens, they'll eventually evolve to look something like this: