Activist critical of police undergoes use-of-force scenarios: FAIL

Greetings ATS:

There have been many recent threads and heated discussions regarding police use of force.

I believe that each controversial case has its own set of circumstances and must be evaluated objectively to determine if the level of force used by law enforcement was justified.

Rev. Jarrett Maupin is an activist who has led protests in the Phoenix area. Click on his name to see blogs and articles of his political activity in the Phoenix area.

Incidentally, Jarrett Maupin ran unsuccessfully for Congress in 2014. His political ideology:

Civil Rights, LGBTQ rights, Immigration, Education, Voter Registration, Environmental Justice, Economic and Social Equality, Job creation; there isn’t a single area of the progressive Democratic agenda where Jarrett hasn’t been a high-profile workhorse for organizing, strategizing, and advancing the cause of the underrepresented and underserved.

It appears his candidacy caused some controversies because "Maupin was unable to vote for himself in the primary election due to the fact that he was a felon still serving probation".

Controversy
Maupin was unable to vote for himself in the primary election due to the fact that he was a felon still serving probation. The U.S. Constitution does not bar felons from running for office, but the Arizona Constitution does forbid felons on probation or with outstanding restitution from voting. He was convicted of a felony for lying to the FBI about criminal behavior by former Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon. As a result of the conviction, Maupin was required to resign from the Phoenix school board, pay restitution for offering legal services without a law degree to at least two people and serve five years of probation. Maupin's probation was set to end in April but was extended by a judge after prosecutors claimed his performance while on probation was "nothing more than a continuation of his predilection for lying and half-truths.

Well, he agreed to participate in some training and use-of-force scenarios with the police. The resulting epic FAIL made him change his mind a little bit.

Police critic changes his tune after ‘shooting’ unarmed man during training exercise

A community activist who has been highly critical of police agreed to take part in a use-of-force training scenario to see how he would react if confronted with uncooperative and aggressive suspects.

The Rev. Jarrett Maupin, who has led protests of the shootings and arrests of black suspects in the Phoenix area, engaged in a training exercise set up by the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office and recorded by KSAZ-TV.

In the 1st scenario, he gets himself shot:

The first scenario finds Maupin, who is not a trained police officer, questioning a man he suspects might be attempting to break into vehicles in a parking lot.

Maupin approaches the man, who says he’s looking for his car, and the “officer” asks him to describe the vehicle.

The man refuses to do so and steps behind the rear of an SUV, pulls a gun from his waistband and “shoots” Maupin.

In the 2nd scenario, he shoots an unarmed man:

In the second scenario, Maupin confronts two men arguing and shoving one another.

He asks the men what’s going on, and the larger of the two men quickly and aggressively rushes toward Maupin – who takes several steps back with his gun drawn before he “shoots” the man.

Maupin told the TV station afterward that he felt threatened when the man rushed toward him.

In the 3rd scenario, he subdues the "visibly unarmed" man who turns out to have a knife in his waistband (not a total fail, I guess. I think they went easy on him by not pulling the knife...):

Maupin wrestles a burglary suspect to the ground in the third scenario, but the man refuses to comply as the “officer” asks whether he’s armed.

But the activist doesn’t “shoot” the suspect, who is carrying a knife in his waistband, in this scenario.

Here's the video:


And at the end of the day:

“I didn’t understand how important compliance was, but after going through this – yes, my attitude has changed,” Maupin said. “This is all unfolding in 10 to 15 seconds. People need to comply with the orders of law enforcement officers for their own sake.”

It ain't so easy, is it now? I hate abuse of force as much as the next ATS'er, and will never use the hardships of the job as an excuse for bad police officers.

Do these scenarios affect anyone's opinion here on ATS? I wouldn't want to be in those types of scenarios on a regular basis... I tend to err on the side of caution, which would inevitably result in a lot of unarmed but quite dead (or twice-maced and thrice-tazed) thugs.

I saw this yesterday. One dead cop and one dead perp. Maybe he will pass on what he went through.

a reply to: InTheFlesh1980

Maybe this will lead to police honoring their oath or welcoming full transparency to regain the trust of citizens?

I would think they would all want to be on audio and video at all times. So they can rightfully prove how heroic they are.

a reply to: InTheFlesh1980

LEO more willing to shoot Whites than Blacks

This whole thing of "black lives matter" is a BS con job.

I would pitch in some money to see a video or Sharpton doing this in a heartbeat! Maybe it would shut his butt down for good in any of these matters.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

I see what you did there. Turn a citizen learning how fast decisions have to be made into how police need to have body cams and honor their oath and such.

Twist, turn, and spin!

This is all hogwash. Everyone knows to comply. If you rush a LEO you will pay the consequence sometimes including your life.
Its a no brainier. Suspect armed or not you don't rush a LEO like that. I don't see the failure here.

The problem is all the unnecessary killings or shooting by LEO's. That's the real issue people are kicking up about. LEO's are reacting and killing people before even giving them the chance to comply. The overstepping of the laws and constitutional rights of citizens and acting in a "I am above the law and can do as I please and you must comply to my every demand" police state type mentality is the other issue.

I keep my ducks in order because I'm deathly afraid to encounter a LEO and it shouldn't be that way.

a reply to: macman

The actual statistics tell a much different story. Blacks are at much higher risk at getting shot by the police.

Google searches can be misleading.

Here the other side:

www.bustle.com...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Young black males in recent years were at a far greater risk of being shot dead by police than their white counterparts – 21 times greater i, according to a ProPublica analysis of federally collected data on fatal police shootings.

The 1,217 deadly police shootings from 2010 to 2012 captured in the federal data show that blacks, age 15 to 19, were killed at a rate of 31.i7 per million, while just 1.47 per million white males in that age range died at the hands of police.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: macman

The actual statistics tell a much different story. Blacks are at much higher risk at getting shot by the police.

Google searches can be misleading.

Here the other side:

www.bustle.com...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Young black males in recent years were at a far greater risk of being shot dead by police than their white counterparts – 21 times greater i, according to a ProPublica analysis of federally collected data on fatal police shootings.

The 1,217 deadly police shootings from 2010 to 2012 captured in the federal data show that blacks, age 15 to 19, were killed at a rate of 31.i7 per million, while just 1.47 per million white males in that age range died at the hands of police.

Yea the study was about the psychology of shooting, and not to dispute the numbers of people shot by police.

Which you would've know if you'd read the articles and comments made by those running the study

originally posted by: SgtHamsandwich
This is all hogwash. Everyone knows to comply. If you rush a LEO you will pay the consequence sometimes including your life.
Its a no brainier. Suspect armed or not you don't rush a LEO like that. I don't see the failure here.

Apparently, not everyone is aware to comply with officers orders orders. In another thread, we are discussing similar situations, and just learned Duncanville, Texas is holding a public meeting to discuss complying with orders from police.
Above Top Secret

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
I would pitch in some money to see a video or Sharpton doing this in a heartbeat! Maybe it would shut his butt down for good in any of these matters.

Now THAT would be a great video to see.

Or perhaps Rev. Jesse Jackson? Let's put him in uniform and have his squad respond to a robbery suspect walking down the middle of the street.

Officer Jesse: "Hey you, get on the sidewalk! What is that merchandise you are carrying?"

Suspect: "F*** you!"

Office Jesse: "Halt! Get your hands up!"

Suspect: < punches Officer Jesse in face, reaches in car to try to seize JJ's service weapon >

Officer Jesse: "Run along now. Don't rob people! And don't assault police officers! I know you're a good kid, because if I did shoot you everyone would be on the news tomorrow saying what a good kid you were. Run along now!"

LOL

a reply to: Shamrock6

I replied to a poster who posted what I would call misleading information.

I did some training in what was called a prism, for some security work I did years ago. My first run through a hostage scenario I shot a screaming running unarmed innocent person, almost everyone fails that scenario. I suppose if I ever encountered the real thing I would be much better prepared.

I can only hope all of law enforcement and security officers go through this sort of training.

a reply to: jrod

Nice cheery picking stats.


The study, in the search I provided was for ALL LE. Not just white officers.

As a whole, the study found that ALL LEO are more willing to fire on white suspects then black.

a reply to: jrod

How is this possible, with you past publicly admitted veteran status?


FATS is a US based system used for a wide range of studies. It shows the psychology of the shoot.

The stats for this study don't lie.

a reply to: macman

And I will tell you that is a bogus study.

Just like there are studies that 'prove' that steroids do not make cops more aggressive.

Look at the FBI stats and get back to me.

a reply to: InTheFlesh1980

Sure... find some dip*snip and parade him in front of a camera attempting to do what takes people years to learn and blammo.... all activist naysayers who feel oppressed by the police are painted with a broad stupid brush. Well done...

a reply to: jrod

How is this bogus?? Does it not exist, or is it just not what you want.

Steroids have nothing to do with this.

The study shows you are full of crap.

Don't really see anything published on "jrod's" findings for X.

a reply to: jrod

You know, at first I didn't really see how that could be taken out of context but now I can.

Don't know that it was intentionally taken out of context by the poster, but I can see how it could be.

I agree with SgtHamsandwich on this being hogwash. It's all about 'necessay' force. If you went by the police training in those videos you would end up thinking that you should shoot EVERYONE just in case.
The police spend YEARS on this training, not just a few hours on a few 'well thought out for public consumption' scenarios. Anyone one of 'us' untrained in such scenarios would have our minds all over the place with what we should or should not do but police should not be on the streets until they are considered well enough trained to keep a level head and be well aware of the dangers.
It's absolutely right that the people are cheesed off about the punches and kicks to the heads of restrained individuals, the choking to death of restrained individuals, the mouthing off to the public who have'nt broken any laws, the shooting/tazing of individuals before they have even had a chance to take a breath before speaking etc etc etc.
Nothing but a load of bunk in that video !!

Let's keep the thread on topic. I don't think statistics regarding the psychology of racial demographics affecting the probability of getting shot by LEO are entirely relevant.

I think the point of the thread is that many "activists" have no idea what they are talking about when they are protesting these incidents because they have never experienced use-of-force scenarios that are "life or death" situations.

The OP is simply an example of one activist that has led protests who, after undergoing the scenarios, realized that it is much more difficult in real life when you have a non-compliant suspect or perpetrator.

That's all, really. The video is just an eye-opener that will make some people consider "What the hell would I do in that 10 seconds?"

If the guy in the 2nd scenario was Michael Brown, there's Rev. Jarrett Maupin, liberal protester extraordinaire, shooting an unarmed kid.