Is it a poor mindset? An atheist mindset? What causes paranoia?

I find myself around two kinds of people.

One kind of group is giving, there is always more to give. Their attitude is that there are no shortages because whatever is needed can be created. There is little petty in-fighting, and this group of people get far because they help each other out. It should be noted that there really are less shortages because when people support each other in making positive advancements, this helps the group.

Then there is the second group that I also find myself involved in, where there is always a shortage. This group is paranoid and back-stabbing, always counting to make sure that no one is getting the best of each one of them, not willing to help a friend in need because that friend is "not doing his part..." not willing to share food with guests because the guests "aren't good enough friends to contribute," no one truly gets to know each other past the fear in their own hearts.

People in this group will put each other down before helping one of their own up.

My Analysis

I think that this kind of destructive thinking comes from low self-esteem in the second group I mentioned. I say this because studies I have read show that helping people is one of the fastest ways to success, and those who are at the top of a social ladder (presumably with higher self-esteem) engage in altruistic activities more often than those at the lower tiers of a social network.

My theory is that low self-esteem causes people to hoard what it is they have, be it imaginary gold coins in D&D, secret strategies of any sort, food in the cupboard, even simple tasks like helping someone in a minor way (that would take little but a few calories, but hurt the pride) because they feel they are not worth enough to provide for more than themselves.

It is a destructive mindset that makes it hard for me to be around people in these groups. I believe in helping others and that through doing that, one will find good people to be around and one's life will be filled with altruism. I believe that harming others brings one down a path that leads to hanging around negative crowds. I have done both, seen both.

Are Certain Groups More Susceptible?

I don't know how much being poor has to do with people keeping an eye out for being shorted, but it would make sense because poor people could perceive that they have low amounts of resources. This means that they are holding themselves back by not believing that they have unlimited resources, which they do. But they can't access what they don't believe in.

Democrats believe there are limited resources, and they do quite a lot of politicking about it - although they are right about limited amounts of fossil fuels, and they propose alternative energy sources, which is a positive solution, so they are moving in a positive direction.

I wonder if atheists are able to care for one another, and I have met many who can, but are there some atheists out there who are driven mad by individuality and unable to form altruistic relationships because they don't believe in helping others? I have ran into more than a few of those, too.

In this case, do Christians get off the hook because their belief system allows believers to band together and share resources without feeling hatred towards each other because they believe there are infinite resources from Heaven, and it is not going to harm them to aid one another?

What causes this negative outlook on life, where one has to always be watching their back and a favor must be matched for a favor and calculated as such to the point where friendship is forgotten? I am talking about this particular negative aspect of life. I hope some people have opinions, I am open to all of them.

Edit: After reading your thread a few times, I think I better understand it now.

I don't believe partaking in destructive behaviours comes down strictly to self-esteem. I know this because as somebody who has had self-esteem issues for much of my life, I have tended to be more altruistic than selfish in most areas of my life. In fact, there are times where I have deprived myself of something because I didn't feel worthy or good enough and would rather see somebody else experiencing happiness/fulfilment. Then again, I might be an exception to the rule.

I strongly believe it comes down to previous life experiences. People that fall in the second group have most likely been burned a few times themselves or witnessed others close to them being back-stabbed, and this is why they are distrusting, cynical and paranoid.

All it takes is one negative experience to taint all the good ones and sway a person's mindset to be (even slightly) more pessimistic and self-centred overall.

I must be one of those people

My 12th level Mage/thief has over 2032 gold coins .

a reply to: darkbake

Something has given these individuals the ability to perceive the dark side of humanity.

Thus, the answer would be their facets of perception - they see more negatives than positives.

I think atheist does not apply here...I am an atheist....I only believe that you should always help others in every way...We are human....anarchist might be what one is looking for here.... I do Not believe in god...or any other BS religions....we As human have a Built in mechanism for deciphering between right or wrong....we can all move forward as a human race once we realise we are all the same...stop greedy people whom only serve themselves through personal consumption and start to abolish the school systems as by removing any and All religious context and moving forward as straight knowledge based societies....the question is how do we achieve this and remove ourselves from this mindset.
There isn't any shortages but we as a human race can only, together as one, overcome any obstacles that may come our way within reason....like a extinction event such as a asteroid strike.
Will everything run out....sure at some point...but we may have evolved enough to get off this rock...or at least obtain resources from off planet.
Point being....remove the term atheist and I am sure this will be a informative thread.

From an atheist......"We are all born atheist until someone starts telling us lies"

Human nature is the struggle between the animalistic selfish survival instinct, and the humanistic selfless altruism. The first is by nature, survival of the fittest. The second is an aspect of evolutionary psychology, learned over time.

It boils down to a risk/reward scenario, will I be rewarded enough by joining Society and becoming a productive member? Or will I be wealthier on my own? And at least in the earliest days, people found survival easiest in tribes.

But make no mistake, its an artificial construct, only made possible by comfort. Demonstrated by Shutter Island:



When people judge the risk/reward as in favour of the latter, worth trying, they go for it. You see in society even good people commit crimes if they think they can get away with it. Its the temptation of reward, or survival in some cases.

Religion is not a good indicator of loyalty/selfishness, as there are people from every religion who are selfish and who are selfless.

originally posted by: plube
From an atheist......"We are all born atheist until someone starts telling us lies"

That's not true in the slightest. You cant believe that there's no such possibility as a higher power when you're not even old enough to fathom the concept.

You're born agnostic until someone lies to you that either atheism or religion is correct.

A few points ..
Over the years more often than not on the times needed help its been mostly athiests .. and muslims who were willing to help .. christians were least willing to help.

in regard to paranoia it can be caused by a few things.. mental illness .. being in places/situations with people constantly trying to kill you and having to distinguish between friend and enemy when there are few if any ways to tell the good guys from the bad guys ..

the selfishness.. backstabbing.. me first attitudes are more often the result of the western "me first" attitude and materialism found more often in western culture ..

a reply to: Ridhya
No I think plube is correct. If you don't know the concept of something you cant believe it exists. Atheism is the lack of belief in a god, not the active disbelief.
To be agnostic you would surely need to know the concept in the first place?

a reply to: ScepticScot
"In the popular sense of the term, an "agnostic", according to the philosopher William L. Rowe, is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of God, while a theist believes that God does exist and an atheist believes that God does not exist."

An agnostic neither believes nor disbelieves - that describes a baby. An atheist believes in something, just the inverse of a religious person.

I liken it to Schrodinger's Cat. You dont know whether the cat is dead or alive without opening the box. Yet before opening, the religious is absolutely certain the cat is alive, and the atheist is absolutely certain the cat is dead. At any rate, it is not causation of selfishness, correlational at best.

originally posted by: darkbake
Are Certain Groups More Susceptible?

I don't know how much being poor has to do with people keeping an eye out for being shorted, but it would make sense because poor people could perceive that they have low amounts of resources. This means that they are holding themselves back by not believing that they have unlimited resources, which they do. But they can't access what they don't believe in.

Did you consider that some people are poor because they give away everything they've earned?

Democrats believe there are limited resources, and they do quite a lot of politicking about it - although they are right about limited amounts of fossil fuels, and they propose alternative energy sources, which is a positive solution, so they are moving in a positive direction.

No they aren't. The only direction they are moving in is towards more money. Just like the Republicans.

I wonder if atheists are able to care for one another, and I have met many who can, but are there some atheists out there who are driven mad by individuality and unable to form altruistic relationships because they don't believe in helping others? I have ran into more than a few of those, too.

Why wouldn't they? It is a fallacy to assume that religion creates morality and altruism. All religion does is demand everyone be nice to each other. But as we've seen since forever, people don't like being told what to do.

In this case, do Christians get off the hook because their belief system allows believers to band together and share resources without feeling hatred towards each other because they believe there are infinite resources from Heaven, and it is not going to harm them to aid one another?

Christians don't get off the hook. The Christian right in this country is one of the biggest contributors to the selfishness of America. They oppose things like social programs, a woman's right to choose, gay marriage. They support morality laws and compliance through force (the police state). These are ALL bastions of the Christian right.

That being said, there are Christians that are nice to each other because they like to be. But don't for a second give a pass to a group of people because of their supposed value systems. Again all religion does is require you to be nice to each other, usually through threat of punishment (eternal damnation). However, when someone does something because he is forced, he isn't sincere with his actions.

What causes this negative outlook on life, where one has to always be watching their back and a favor must be matched for a favor and calculated as such to the point where friendship is forgotten? I am talking about this particular negative aspect of life. I hope some people have opinions, I am open to all of them.

Selfishness, trust issues growing up, some people are just plain mean. There are MANY different reasons why people are like this and there isn't a simple answer to your query. But the WRONG answer is to break it down by groups like Democrats, Christians, Atheists, etc. There are giving and selfish people in all groups for a myriad of reasons. A group doesn't define a person.

originally posted by: Ridhya

originally posted by: plube
From an atheist......"We are all born atheist until someone starts telling us lies"

That's not true in the slightest. You cant believe that there's no such possibility as a higher power when you're not even old enough to fathom the concept.

You're born agnostic until someone lies to you that either atheism or religion is correct.

You are defining the term ignostic, not agnostic.

To be agnostic, you still have to have an understanding of the concept.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: TheArrow
Then using your own logic, to be ignostic you would yet have to be able to comprehend the concept that God is not reasonably defined and thus untestable, which babies cannot do? So I guess all we can say is, we are born none of these labels.

Bit off topic.

originally posted by: Ridhya
a reply to: TheArrow
Then using your own logic, to be ignostic you would yet have to be able to comprehend the concept that God is not reasonably defined and thus untestable, which babies cannot do? So I guess all we can say is, we are born none of these labels.

Bit off topic.

If in doubt, refer to this maxim:

A theist would say, 'I believe God exists';
An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists';
an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists';
and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" .

The default for human existence is ignorance, to be ignorant of the concepts of theism is ignosticism.

a reply to: darkbake

"I wonder if atheists are able to care for one another, and I have met many who can"

Seriously? Did you really just write this? If you think one needs to believe in god to help others and be kind to people, i feel very very sorry for you.

Most religious texts are incredibly immoral. The bible is a disgusting book. Advocates slavery and many other nasty things. Id rather get my morality from my experience with people and the shared desire to treat people as i would like to be treated.

You have yet to meet many atheists who can care about others? Then i suggest you start to meet nicer people (atheist or otherwise..)

What a ridiculous thing to say.

I wonder if atheists are able to care for one another, and I have met many who can, but are there some atheists out there who are driven mad by individuality and unable to form altruistic relationships because they don't believe in helping others? I have ran into more than a few of those, too.

I wonder if humans are able to care for one another, and I have met many who can, but are there some humans out there who are driven mad by individuality and unable to form altruistic relationships because they don't believe in helping others? I have ran into more than a few of those, too.

There. Fixed.

originally posted by: Klassified

I wonder if atheists are able to care for one another, and I have met many who can, but are there some atheists out there who are driven mad by individuality and unable to form altruistic relationships because they don't believe in helping others? I have ran into more than a few of those, too.

I wonder if humans are able to care for one another, and I have met many who can, but are there some humans out there who are driven mad by individuality and unable to form altruistic relationships because they don't believe in helping others? I have ran into more than a few of those, too.

There. Fixed.

I haven't used this in a while, but /thread.

a reply to: Ridhya
You are probably correct to say that in popular use that is what is often meant however Rowe's description is wrong.
Slightly off topic but interesting example of difference in common and correct usage in the English language.
You are absolutely correct there is no causation to selfishness, I would very much doubt any correlation either.

a reply to: Klassified

I wonder if humans are able to care for one another, and I have met many who can, but are there some humans out there who are driven mad by individuality and unable to form altruistic relationships because they don't believe in helping others? I have ran into more than a few of those, too.

There. Fixed.

a reply to: darkbake

Yes, these two kinds of people exist, though I think most of us are a kind of combination of the two, and which set of traits is ascendant at any particular time depends on the circumstances and relationships involved.

But why characterize one group as believers and one as atheists? Is there any evidence for doing so?

I'll take anecdotal, so long as it's not personal.