Don't offend the Muslims!!!! (here we go again)

a reply to: butcherguy

I will choose freedom over censorship. I may not agree with you, but I don't want to shut you up and trample your right to expression. It would be far easier to choose to shut you up, don't you think?

I agree with you - I absolutely believe the same thing

Until you start calling for somebody's death

So, is there such a thing as hate speech?

Is this satire?
How about this?
Or this?
How about this?

To me, this is not just an interesting question - it's the question. There was a lot of hate speech - truly ugly stuff that lead Germany directly into the holocaust. It was a campaign - marketing...a devaluation of an entire people. Germany is only one example. There is an obvious campaign against Muslims - not terrorists - in Europe and here in the USA right now

AT the same time - Charlie Hebdo is satire - satire is something I respect and admire. It's a sign of a healthy society in my opinion. Was everything they did satire?

Like I said - I like to think

I want a truly free society where we are all free to speak our minds and fight for these things out loud in public

Because I say so.... Just like you can state that Christians own the world... when they don't.

Did I say they own the world?

No - I don't think I did

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Did I say they own the world?

I am sorry that I misquoted you.
You said this:

It's because Christians own the joint

I thought that you meant the world when you said 'the joint'.

I want a truly free society where we are all free to speak our minds and fight for these things out loud in public

It sure seems like you are against censorship. I applaud that!

a reply to: butcherguy

So - it's OK if I say they own the USA?

Too funny butcherguy

:-)

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: butcherguy

So - it's OK if I say they own the USA?

Too funny butcherguy

:-)

That certainly makes it clear to me now. Thank you.
It's all good, right?

originally posted by: buster2010

Because if the Christians were to read that book they hold up while they are screaming at gays it would tell them that it isn't their place to judge people but rather love people. It isn't ok for Muslims to do that either but let's face it Christians scream about gays far louder than Muslims do.

Buster,
I offer you this gift in hopes that you change out the incredibly wide one you have been using thus far.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I personally think people get too offended over the strangest stuff. I used to live and work in a very multicultural environment.

One of my co-workers and myself loved fried chicken and bananas. My co-worker was black. I was not. Sometimes people would drop off free chicken for us all, and he and I would fight over who got it..

Funny, no one else wanted it because it had a stereo-type attached. I didn't care about food having a stereotype, want me to make monkey noises - I sure will.. just pass me that banana. lol.

So, while the rest of the world cares about what stereotype they are eating, my friend and I will be sitting on the front porch eating watermelon and fried chicken and bananas - getting fat and sassy of the food no one else seems to want.

Its food.. and we have no shame. Good food is good, no matter what stereotype is attached.

Back in the day, people used to advertise that it was a black persons recipe for fried chicken, or a black persons recipe for the collard greens they served, because guess what.. it was a food type that black Americans did - and they did it well.

Its a compliment to say I love Arthur Bryant's and dislike eating barbeque out anywhere else... its a compliment to the black Americans who did the best barbeque I have ever had.

Get over the stigmas, stop letting everything offend. We choose whether or not we will be offended, and when we so choose.. we pass up perfectly good free food.

THAT is no problem to me.. its only your loss.

a reply to: butcherguy

Yes - all good :-)

Going to do something I don't do very often here at ATS: lol

Thanks butcherguy

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: butcherguy

Yes - all good :-)

Going to do something I don't do very often here at ATS: lol

Thanks butcherguy

Keep smiling! I will too!

a reply to: OpinionatedB

That's a good post Opinionated - and that you're strong enough to not let things bother you is a good thing

What if it's not so much about stereotypes or criticism as it is denigration? Do you think it's possible to harm people with words?

We all have our stereotypes - and we all feel offended. We're human. There are things you would never personally say to another human being - same with me. Why is that?

It's easy for us to ask people not to be offended - and I often notice (right here in River City!) people insisting that nobody should ever feel offended - when what they really mean I think is I want to say whatever I want to say without facing consequences

It's one thing when society suggests that you you can't say this or that - it's another when a government or a religion demands it

Language is an interesting thing - and art is language. We say things to accomplish a goal - and if we do what we set out to do we need to take some responsibility for our intentions. That requires a certain amount of integrity - as an individual and as a culture

I think people have the right to be offended - and speak out against that offense. I think people can be harmed by words

I don't think people have the right to silence other people - and in the end that's the most important part of all of this

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

What is interesting to me is...

Being offended is an attempt to silence people.

Also, It's passive aggressive to be offended.

Isn't it ?

originally posted by: Telos
Needless to say and express the apreciation for this amazing board that you and your collegues have build, giving us the possibility to express what we know and think.

Thank you. And accept this reminder that among our most important founding principles is that of civility.

But please do not "sell" yourself to the political correctness. Is this very pc that is the root of all what's happening today.

It's a difficult line to toe. When free expression migrates from anger to hate, and from hate to incitement; it stops being free expression and becomes intolerant parochialism, or worse.

There is no free speech if you are afraid to express what your really think.

I sent these, my favorite (Twitter compatible) quotes out on our Twitter feed yesterday, soon after our staff was forced to close the thread…


Everybody favors Free Speech in the slack moments when no axes are being ground.
Heywood Broun

What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.
Salman Rushdie

It is the function of speech to free men from the bondage of irrational fears.
Louis Brandeis

Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
Thomas Jefferson

Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.
John Milton

Free Speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself.
Salman Rushdie

Without Free Speech no search for truth is possible... no discovery of truth is useful.
Charles Bradlaugh


and this…

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

My husband is what is considered a hillbilly. Mountain folk is what he is. Because of the stigma and critisim of mountain people's being ignorant, he went and got a very nice education - he is now highly intelligent.

People, because of what he sounds like, always treat him like he is ignorant when they first meet him. He allows them to, to a point. Then one day he will simply decide he has had enough, and blow someone's socks off with the amount of intelligence he has, and then go back to playing dumb hick again.

He did this to one of my co-workers, who had taken him for stupid one time too many. My co-worker had a new respect after that, and decided no more intellectual challenges should be played since he would loose.

But, does the inbred ignorant mountain man jokes/comments/treatment hurt my husband? No.. he dealt with it in his own way. He keeps it hidden under his belt to use as a weapon when needed I suppose. But he doesn't let how others treat him offend him just because of the way they often treat him. He knows what he is, and that is enough for him most of the time..

Myself, many people have said many offensive things to me in my life in an attempt to denigrate. I, being a more emotional woman, have at some times cried.. but usually not. Because I do know who and what I am too, and its not what most people think/thought, but I will let them think whatever they want ... that is their right. I am not sitting around telling my mother it offends me that she calls me a whore because I was pregnant at 14 - nor do I think any law needs to be passed because of my offense either, even when it made me cry.

If people make me into a cartoon, I wont kill them for it either. People do things that hurt others, it happens every single day. Sometimes it is intentional, and sometimes not. But in the end, the people who get offended the most, are the people who don't know who they are - and that, is their problem really. If you don't know who you are and that inside you are a good person, then that is that persons biggest problem, not what the world says.

If we cannot laugh at ourselves, then who can we laugh at?

If someone made a cartoon of my dad no matter how vile, well.. that cannot hurt me because I know who he is. I would simply smile and shake my head and say, no, you never knew my dad at all let me tell you about him.

First, know thyself.

I hate the word islamaphobic, a new and constantly used word, probably invented by a Muslim. What is wrong with being islamaphobic? I hate Islam and think it is the most oppressive, misogynistic and abhorrent religion that was ever invented.

Just off to eat and pork pie and have a few beers.

In Islam (sharia)there is no free speech, therefore Islam and Muslims should be banned from countries with free speech. For eventually they will use the very right of free speech to destroy free speech.

In Islam (sharia) there is no freedom of religion, therefore Islam and Muslims should be banned from countries with freedom of religion. For eventually they will use the very right of freedom of religion to destroy freedom of religion.

In Islam (sharia) Muslims are encouraged to lie to non Muslims ( Taqiyya and kitman) and therefore should be banned from all countries that value truth because they have mastered lying as a part of their faith.

a reply to: Swills

That brings out some excellent points in a way that I've never heard them expressed, this is Truth in it's raw form. Thanks for sharing it.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Keeping in mind that this is a rant thread, please understand that my personal experience..(I've been to 48 states plus Canada and Mexico) my personal experience is that I've never seen any friendly advertisements done promoting Muslim faith, I've never seen any charity deeds done by Muslim faith, I've never personally known any Muslims but almost every day on the news there's another hate-filled murder done in the name of the prophet Mohammed. If we Never Ever Ever Never Never see any good things with our own eyes, done by Muslims, what do we have to balance it out against all the evil deeds committed against our countrymen?

a reply to: whyamIhere

What is interesting to me is...

Being offended is an attempt to silence people.

Also, It's passive aggressive to be offended.

Isn't it ?

Did you think my point was only to defend people who feel offended? I wonder if you think this situation is really that simple...How is being offended passive aggressive? If you say you're offended - you're not hiding anything - that's pretty straight forward

At the same time - how is being offended the same thing as attempting to silence someone?

Do you honestly believe nobody should ever feel offended ever? Or should they just never bring it up?

Have you yourself never been offended by the actions of others? Have you never demanded that someone else change their behavior because of something they did that bothered you?

Think about it

I'm joshing whyamIhere - I am really not in the mood for a fight

But, I do hope you see my point?

:-)

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Religion needs to go away. It's a brick wall in our evolutionary process. I wouldn't have a problem with it because if you read the books, they have a positive message. It's the zealots who twist it into hate and kill because of it. If you do not speak out about it, you are only giving your religion a bad name. That means if you're Muslim, step up and condemn those who kill for your god. If not, you must believe it's just. If you do, society is going to destroy you and your religion. It isn't something to blame me for. It's the natural progression of man.

I'm trying real hard to be nice about it. I know how I feel about it. I would even put BDU's on to fight it.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I'm not sure who you're preaching to Opinionated - is it me?

:-)

I believe in freedom of speech - that includes the freedom to offend. What do you personally believe this freedom includes? What does it not include - and why?

It also includes the right to feel offended - and to say so. To say it out loud - to protest - to argue - to demand

We don't always get what we want - do we? :-)

People killing people doesn't change any of that - and none of it justifies murder. They're separate things

I asked you earlier: There are things you would never personally say to another human being - same with me. Why is that?

I'd really like to hear your answer - I think it's important

originally posted by: abe froman
In Islam (sharia)there is no free speech, therefore Islam and Muslims should be banned from countries with free speech. For eventually they will use the very right of free speech to destroy free speech.

In Islam (sharia) there is no freedom of religion, therefore Islam and Muslims should be banned from countries with freedom of religion. For eventually they will use the very right of freedom of religion to destroy freedom of religion.

In Islam (sharia) Muslims are encouraged to lie to non Muslims ( Taqiyya and kitman) and therefore should be banned from all countries that value truth because they have mastered lying as a part of their faith.

The moment you limit speech, you no longer have free speech.
The moment you ban a religion, you no longer have religious freedom.