Better the lives of ten cops than one innocent

a reply to: NthOther

originally posted by: opethPA

Well..since you have it all figured out why dont you come spend a few minutes in the badlands of any major city and when the "innocent men" show up to do the inevitable come tells how that all works out.

I love the naive cop haters here on ATS. So oblivious to how the real world works.

I would have no reason to be there other than to stir up bulls# in someone else's neighborhood.

I should expect to be shot, frankly.

The real world, indeed.

I think the OP is trying to make a point.

During the war ask a soldier, in fact ask a PROFESSIONAL soldier now, does he think that 10 soldiers sacrificing their lives so that one innocent at home could live was an acceptable RISK.

The soldier would probably say yes.

Ask a FIREMAN if it's worth 10 firemen risking their lives (9-11, anyone) to save one innocent if that's not an acceptable risk. Firemen run into burning buildings voluntarily.

You'll never see a fire truck with a motto on the side 'For Fireman Safety'.

a reply to: NthOther

Hide from it. It'll be where you live soon. I seen crackheads in Beverly Hills!

a reply to: LOSTinAMERICA

Oh really, you think cops are gonna come in and save neighborhoods? What happens when a crack neighbor hood gets too bad? Cops stay away, don't answer 9-11 calls, too dangerous.

Not that I blame them. What happens is residents end up cleaning up those neighborhoods.

a reply to: Maverick7

No, but they are a deterrent. When they do get there, they usually lock them up for a while so us law abiding citizens can walk down the street in peace. Then they serve their time and rethink bad choices they've made to get there. The stupid one's repeat offend. Then they go back. Works for me and most of society.

a reply to: JiggyPotamus

What the hippo said.
I could not have articulated my own sentiments as well.

a reply to: Maverick7

I seen police in the worse possible neighborhoods in Detroit. Don't tell me they don't. I lived on the West side of Detroit. Brightmoor to be exact. My judgement isn't clouded by single incidents. Feel free to see the crime statistic numbers from there and get back to me. What you perceive and what is true might differ. I'll go one up on you. Find anyplace in the US and check statistics on arrests. I double dog dare you. People are getting locked up in those places you think the police don't go in. Who's doing the arresting? Some unicorn?

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

Let it be known that these are your fellow community members. In real life, people are not a direct one-to-one ratio to their jobs.

No; no life is more or less valuable according to what job one has. The reasoning is false the moment you thought about it.

Lumberjacks have the most dangerous job.

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare
Total number of killings in 2013 by law enforcement officers in the United States: 320 link

Wow look at that! 320 people killed by police officers! 34ish officers killed by people! (FYI I say 34ish because some stats are for things like "struck by vehicle" but they don't discern between whether accident or homicidal)
The numbers seem very one sided to me.

Hmm, you know, I'm looking at your link and what I'm not finding is anything indicating those 320 people dropped by LEOs were "innocent."

Let's look at some of these...

2014-01-30 Garcia-Jauregui, Jose Angel (27) Utah (Santaquin) Garcia-Jauregui shot and killed Sgt. Cory Wride when the officer stopped to check on a vehicle he thought was abandoned. Officers caught up with Garcia-Jauregui and exchanged gunfire with him. Garcia-Jauregui and another officer were both shot and hospitalized; Garcia-Jauregui died later of his injuries.

2014-01-25 Shergill, Parminder Singh (43) California (Lodi) Lodi police officers Cpl. Scott Bratton and Officer Adam Lockie shot and killed Shergill as he charged them with a knife. Shergill was a Gulf War veteran and suffered from posttraumatic stress disorder.[8] Prosecutors ruled the shooting death justified in December.

2014-01-21 Koster, Keith (54) Indianapolis (Indiana) An unnamed officer shot Keith Koster, a mentally ill man, while in the process of a Welfare Check. Koster had picked up a gun in his apartment and began waving it at officers, after a failed takedown with non lethal beanbag rounds and hours of negotiations officers shot and killed Koster.

2014-01-19 Golden, Rodney Pennsylvania (Pittsburgh) Golden was shot and killed after slashing a woman’s throat in an apartment complex.

2014-01-15 Bair, Shawn (22) Indiana (Elkhart) Fatally shot after killing 2 people in a grocery store.

2014-01-14 Hill Jr., Gregory (30) Florida (Fort Pierce) Shot multiple times though his garage door after he raised a gun at a deputy

2014-01-12 Mascarino, Anthony (35) Arizona (Scottsdale) Pointed shotgun at police after firing it into air in his home

2014-01-09 Ware, Michael A (35) Arkansas (Jonesboro) Is said to have opened his door and opened fire on officers, he was shot and killed by officer Eidson

2014-01-07 Blunk, Vernum (47) Florida (Leesburg) Officers were investigating allegations of sexual misconduct with a child. Blunk was armed with a handgun

2014-01-05 Skorev, Igor (23) Colorado (Arvada) Died after a shootout with police.

2014-01-04 Scott, Noah (29) Louisiana (Metairie) After allegedly stabbing his girlfriend he confronted police at his door with a knife, the officers shot and killed him.

2014-01-02 Calhoun, Rasheik (33) Florida (Crestview) SWAT was executing a warrant and suspect was killed after suspects opened fire on officers

2014-01-01 Bridges, Shane (33) Oklahoma (Chelsea) An unnamed Mayes County deputy responded to a call about a suicidal man, when he arrived at Bridges home the deputy found him standing on his porch with a gun, Bridges began shooting at the deputy and the deputy returned fire killing Bridges

2014-01-01 Reece, Julias Michael (20) Michigan (Redford) An armed man suspected in a series of carjackings in Redford and Detroit was shot and killed by police on New Year’s Day

Well, there's January of 2014... struggling to see the innocence present in these individuals shot by officers.

Do innocent people sometimes get shot by police? Absolutely! Were there 320 such cases in 2014? Not even close... The premise of your argument FAILS.

So I'll ask the question nobody else seems to have asked: does it matter which ten cops? I mean, is the rook three weeks out of the academy cool to put in your "group" of ten? The husband, father, and grandfather two months from retirement, who's never shot anybody in his 30 year career? He fair game?

You and some others have a pretty sick sense of "justice" and a willfully ignorant view of facts and reality

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

Abuse under color of authority is 10x worse than the same crime committed by your fellow citizen.

Why? because abuse under color of authority is an attack on society as a whole.

There is no moral mathematics for human life. That is why all out war should be avoided.

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

Nothing else to say, other that your overall sentiment ignores the realities of life and displays a total lack of the truth that all lives matter, ESPECIALLY those who volunteer to put theirs in jeopardy to help you.

Your whole outlook is bass ackwards.

This does not address your implication that we could do with a total lower number LEOs across the board, and that they should be trained to be less-lethal in their initial reactions to things, but to imply that more LEOs should die than the people they have killed in the line of duty (which, by the way, you never quantify the "why" behind the LEO-involved deaths) is downright ignorant, because if you looked at each case, you'd probably realize that the vast majority happen in a self-defense situation.

Case in point: Mike Brown.

Case not in point, and an example of your concern: Eric Garner.

The problem is, critical thinking escapes most people protesting these deaths, and all they see is a badge and a dead citizen and think none are justified. It's utterly asinine to think like that.

originally posted by: LOSTinAMERICA
a reply to: cleverhans

That's a fact, Jack! There are a few bad police officers and the OP makes it sound like they are all bad. 50% by his guess. Hey OP read this guys post I'm commenting to and take a personal assessment to rethink your stance. Police are human and I'm all for bad officers to be held accountable but I'm not labeling them all bad. It's not 50%. The best we can do is call out bull# so some crazy doesn't get any bright ideas and shoot more police.

How many times have the police beaten you? I'm sure the answer isn't daily if at all. Look at reality. These guys do put their lives on the line so you can live in a half way normal society. Give them the credit they deserve. You don't have to accept bad officers to do that. Just know the MORAL majority are good men and women.

The point wasn't that 50% of cops are bad. The fact of the matter is that cops pull the trigger when they shouldn't. There are many incidents where a gun wasn't necessary. I'd say 50% of the cases a gun wasn't necessary.

The problem is in the ideals of today's police. They would rather gun any threat down than handle situations like professionals. It is causing issues and they need to own up to it. If they weren't such cowards they could feel out a situation before reacting.

If their were a moral majority they wouldn't let the bad one's get away with all the BS they do. I dont understand why everyone is taking such a polarized view of this topic.

I fear the reactions here are mainly due to the Brown protests. I see the MSM has done a good job at making you all love your oppressors again.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Maybe you should read the OP then. I stated 320 deaths total. Not 320 innocent deaths.

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare
I fear the reactions here are mainly due to the Brown protests. I see the MSM has done a good job at making you all love your oppressors again.

Wrong again... the reactions here are mainly due to the fact that most of us have had positive interactions with good officers and don't have an axe to grind. If anything the MSM is responsible for whooping the protesters of situations like the Mike Brown debacle into a frenzy because asshats throwing crap at cops while CNN guest commentators make anti-police rhetoric filled blurbs makes good headlines.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Thank you for a civil response.

The statement wasn't about a straight ten cops dying per citizen. The ratio was better 10 cops than 1 INNOCENT citizen.

The whole point is that police are trigger happy and there are far too many innocent fathers/mothers/children getting killed in the crossfire bc officers would rather shoot than do any risk assessment.

It is this reason that infants end up being blown up with tear gas while sleeping in their cribs.

The day will come when all these smug trolls bombarding this thread find out how much the police rape the citizens lives.