Medical Marijuana in CA, good/bad?

I live in California, and recently more and more friends have been able to get their hands on medical marijuana cards. by going to certain doctors and claiming to suffer from insomnia, chronic headaches, or other "diseases" then paying a certain fee ranging from a hundered to a few hundred dollars, a legal medical marijuana card is registered. These cards can be presented at dispenceries that are begininning to open throughout the state and individuals can purchase marijuana or other marijuana related products. Now i do use marijuana on a somewhat regular basis, yet whether i am for or against this is quite unclear to myself. here are a few concerns that i have:

1. Am i getting this card from the government, and therefore couldn't this be traced, and eventually possibly used against me when i go to apply for a job or something.

2. Am i now just purchasing this marijuana straight from the government rather than the government having to actually appear as if they are fighting a "war on drugs"

3. Is this legalization of medical marijuana a good thing, what could this do to society?

This is something that i have pondered for a while. It is obvious that this medical marijuana is easily accessible to those whom do not suffer from any serious medical ailments. Word is spreading fast that just about anybody can get one of these cards and carry marijuana legally. What if this takes off and everybody that wants to can smoke and carry marijuana to pretty much any extent as they see fit. Maybe i am just a worrier but this situation is just at it's beginning and could turn into a serious issue.

I just finished reading Brave New World, in this book a drug called soma is used to keep the population happy, this drug seems very similar to marijuana to me. Both can be used to subdue the masses and remove motivation from any rising/revolting power.I know that a working class that does not question anything is what high elitists find to be most usefull.That is what marijuana could easily become. The question is whether or not the government has actually realized this yet. What better a way to keep a working class happy then by subduing them with drugs.

I am new to this ATS forum and actually this is my first post, i looked around a little bit and i love what i see here, let me know what you guys think and try and take it easy on me i am a new guy.

Interesting thoughts, there, lefty!

I live in California, as well, specifically, Humboldt County where they have listed pot as a cash crop in the past.

Many people here grown their own medical pot after obatining a "215 card"...they then sell the excess to the medical pot clinics.

As far as the government being able to track you...interesting thought! I know that you get fingerprinted when you apply for the pot card.

I will stay tuned on this one!

Welcome to ATS!

Nice first post.

I've thought about this. Lax marijuana laws contributes to an escalation of marijuana use in CA as well as the nation. But in essence, marijuana would be the perfect tool to 'pacify' the people. Brave New World and the film Equilibrium touched on these topics.

However, the use of marijuana is a choice and an illegal one at that. It's not being forced upon the people therefore I can't see the government using it for some hidden agenda. Now take for example chemicals such as fluroide which resides in the nation's drinking water. Fluroide is known to give you pearly whites and have ill effects upon ones health. Smoke herb, don't drink the water.

Good topic though.

The use of marijunana doesnt need to be forced upon anyone, it is a drug used for recreational purposes. alcohol, nicotine, we have seen the effects of these drugs on the public. Marijuana use is illegal now. yet this medical marijuana efforts is possible the begining of the reversal of this. That is why now is the time to worry about the effects that marijuana could have on an entire population. What would have happened if marijuana lobbyists were stronger politically when the virginia toboccao farmers pushed to make this drug illegal. Substitute marijuana for say alcohol, what would have happened to our societies evolution. And if this is the beginning of a change, what could be happenning to our society.

Originally posted by leftyknew
Marijuana use is illegal now. yet this medical marijuana efforts is possible the begining of the reversal of this.

I hardly think so. Because something is prescribed doesnt mean its going to be applied to the entire population. Back in the beginning of last century (1900) heroin was prescribed for patients. We now know that the harmful purposes of heroin outweigh the medicinal purposes of the drug. I don't see heroin being used as a method of control by the government.

Originally posted by leftyknew
What would have happened if marijuana lobbyists were stronger politically when the virginia toboccao farmers pushed to make this drug illegal.

Well I do know the demonization of marijuana is primarily based on two factors:
1.) Racism
2.) Financial returns
If you would like me to provide sources I will be happy to.

Heh Simulacra, I think I'll do that for you.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.a1b2c3.com...

blogs.salon.com...

[edit on 14-12-2004 by sardion2000]

I do not believe that the legalization of medical marijuana could accurately be equated to the use of heroin for some patients. These drugs are completely different and have very little in common with each other. marijuana is already highly used and has been for many years. It is of course more used than we shall ever know. not everyone must use marijuana for its effects to be felt on society. It's not going to be "applied" to the entire population but rather more accessible to the majority of population. This will keep the working class where they are using drugs and doing mindless slave labor for a higher class, and the upper class still convincing their kids to stay away from drugs and in school.

The harmful effects are difficult to notice, and if there were any presented would we hear about them. Instead what we have is marijuana being used to cure those that are deemed unhealthy by those that seek to make money of off this new legal drug. Are they creating a new perception or at least attempting to. The more i turn this topic over in my head the more i lean against supporting legalization or even de-criminilization of marijuana.

As for the two factors racism; all i have heard of this is that(i forgot which decade, between 30's and 60's) marijuana was associated with black jazz artists and strongly viewed as against the moral values of America at the time.

As for Financial returns, marijuana has many great purposes some including hemp and other hemp products which tend to be extremely strong.I understand that at the time of marijuana's illegalization the DuPont company strongly pushed for this to happen because of the scare that hemp and hemp related products would create competition for the company.

also another noticeable idea is that the financial returns that would now be received if legalization occured would greatly influence the pockets of many pharamacutical drug companies that would begin to experiment and create new forms of medical marijuana. Even marlboro would make money, they already have the name Marlboro Green copywrighted.

This will keep the working class where they are using drugs and doing mindless slave labor for a higher class,

Really. What do you base this assumption on? I know deadbeat stoners who are also alchoholics and coke heads, I also know succesfull businessmen and women who work in many different skilled positions ranging from Human Resources to Computer Programmers and even Wall Street Traders(actually up here it would be Bay Street). I also know single mothers with multiple children on welly, as I also know whole succefull family of stoners who are brilliant(the Father is a Geophysists the mother is a Real Estate Agent with Ph.D. in Marine Biology). Stop painting will large strokes please. BTW The Stoners in my hood are very politically active in the NDP(the Socialist Party) Very little apathy and almost no trust of the gov't here.

and the upper class still convincing their kids to stay away from drugs and in school.

Actually I have found the opposite to be true when I was growing up. The high class kids just kept it to themselves alot better as they had a rep to uphold. And usally the upper class kids have access to more premium type drugs like Coke the rich mans Crack. Usually from what I've found is that the Upper Class kids have far less parental supervision as both parents usually are working in order to keep that upper class status. Wealth is not a factor in drug usages, its parental supervision(or lack thereof) that is the root of the issue. Saying things like this only re-enforces the boujoi(sp?) class system that is now in place.

EDIT: BTW Read the links I posted. Maybe then you will realize that Pot doesn't cause Political Apathy, its popular culture in general and the way politics is run nowadays that make Apathy a more popular option.

[edit on 14-12-2004 by sardion2000]

i understand i am painting with large strokes and creating sterotypes and overgenerazilations. yet at the same time i have seen some of the same people that you have that use marijuana. That is now with the legal status that it already has. what if it become legal. i am afraid of consistent use by individuals

quoted from the encyclopedia source you posted
"Cannabis use causes significant medium-term decreases in cognitive performance, but intelligence and cognition generally return to normal within a month (usually less) of abstinence."
how many stoners do you know that smoke only once or twice a month, most that i know use it on a regular basis, that is the danger. Recreational use of a drug i support because i believe that it can be a mind/life changing thing.

As for the upper class, yes i agree that they do have an easier access to higher and in turn worse drugs than the normal population. However it seems that on a whole, those higher class families do not or refrain from using drugs nearly as much as lower and middle class working families did or do. Whether or not their beliefs are accurately portrayed to their children is another topic.

My idea is that pot on a whole creates apathy not just political apathy. It greatly reduces motivation as well as cognitive abilities. Political apathy will just be a side effect of consistent use of pot by many that would have had the ability to actually make a difference

Just a question for you, what does NDP stand for and what part of Canada are you from? Hasn't B.C. or Vancouver already decriminalized marijuana?

Originally posted by leftyknew
As for the two factors racism; all i have heard of this is that(i forgot which decade, between 30's and 60's) marijuana was associated with black jazz artists and strongly viewed as against the moral values of America at the time.

I'll answer your quote with a silly but true quote.

Even more inflammatory and biased were the accusations by that period's US 'drug czar' Henry (Harry) Anslinger. Anslinger charged that the drug provoked murderous rampages in previously solid citizens. Anslinger testified that cannabis "makes darkies feel equal to white men," a complaint typical of much of the racist anti-drug rhetoric of the time, which for example emphasised opium's role in promoting Anglo-Chinese miscegenation. He told the married men in the audience: "Gentlemen, it will make your wives want to have sex with a Black man!" Anslinger also popularized the word marihuana for the plant, using a Mexican derived word (believed to be derived from a Brazilian Portuguese term for inebriation) in order to associate the plant with increasing numbers of Mexican immigrants, creating a negative stereotype which persists to this day
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by leftyknew
As for Financial returns,

Youre on the right track. I wish I had something I could give you.

The decision of the U.S. Congress was based in part on testimony derived from articles in the newspapers owned by William Randolph Hearst, who was heavily interested in DuPont Inc. Some analysts theorize DuPont wanted to boost declining post-war textile sales, and wished to eliminate hemp fiber as competition. Many argue that this seems unlikely given DuPont's lack of concern with the legal status of cotton, wool, and linen; although it should be noted that hemp's textile potential had not yet been largely exploited, while textile factories already had made large investments in equipment to handle cotton, wool, and linen. Others argue that Dupont wanted to eliminate cannabis because its high natural cellulose content made it a viable alternative to the company's developing innovation: modern plastic. Still, others could argue that hemp could never truly compete with high-strength an elasticity synthetics, such as nylon.

You guys are looking at everything from the wrong angle. Find out why that Marijuana is illegal in the first place, then work your way back to why it is illegal. But anyways ...

Originally posted by bet555
You guys are looking at everything from the wrong angle. Find out why that Marijuana is illegal in the first place, then work your way back to why it is illegal. But anyways ...

In case you didnt see the post by sardion2000, here is a brief summary of a link he provided.

Why is Marijuana Illegal?
A brief history of the criminalization of cannabis
blogs.salon.com...

Many people assume that marijuana was made illegal through some kind of process involving scientific, medical, and government hearings; that it was to protect the citizens from what was determined to be a dangerous drug.

The actual story shows a much different picture...

You know what, I'll actually just stop there.



[edit on 12/14/2004 by Simulacra]

[edit on 12/14/2004 by Simulacra]

Just a question for you, what does NDP stand for and what part of Canada are you from? Hasn't B.C. or Vancouver already decriminalized marijuana?

The NDP stands for New Democratic Party and its leader is currently Jack Layton. No Canada has not decriminalised it yet because it is dragging its feet. In fact if it wasn't for the courts pretty much telling the Liberal Party to start reviewing its policy on Weed it would't be on the table. Do you know what the court threatened the Gov't with? They threatened to make it completely Legal if they didn't stop dragging thier feet. Heh. Vancouver is more tolerant then the rest of Canada right now but the rest of the country is catching up. Toronto Cops totally ignore stoners now as its a waste of thier time(not to mention they get in trouble from the Chiefs for wasting department resources they only really go after the big grow ops that are fire hazards much like they go after illigal distillieries(ie unlicenced))

Here are some interesting facts from the Netherlands where it may not be completely legal it is tolerant enough to let shopkeepers sell the stuff and only that stuff thus seperating it from the dangerous drug dealers.

Lifetime prevalence of marijuana use (ages 12+)
----> USA = 36.9% Netherlands = 17.0%

Past month prevalence of marijuana use (ages 12+)
----> USA = 5.4% Netherlands = 3.0%

Lifetime prevalence of heroin use (ages 12+)
----> USA = 1.4% Netherlands = 0.4%

Incarceration Rate per 100,000 population
----> USA = 701 Netherlands = 100

Per capita spending on criminal justice system (in Euros)
----> USA = �379 Netherlands = �223

Homicide rate per 100,000 population
----> USA = 5.56 Netherlands = 1.51

Source of figures
www.drugwarfacts.org...

how many stoners do you know that smoke only once or twice a month, most that i know use it on a regular basis, that is the danger.

Actually the majority of people I know do not smoke regularly, its more of a social thing with the people I know I am however not a kid anymore and neither are my friends the thing I have found is that the older you get the harder it is to tell who smokes and who doesnt and you would be surprised by the people who do smoke, my dad worked with a banker who grew some in his closet. I however do smoke regularly, and I know it has impaired my cognitive abilities a bit, allthough not much IMO.

Basically my point is there are people out there that will abuse substances wether legal or illigal. There are many more drugs that are legal(by perscription) that can KILL people and are highly addictive. Ever hear of Oxycontin? Its tearing the East Coast(ie P.I.E. & Newfie land) youths apart as it is very much like heroin. By the way I'm high right now.

[edit on 14-12-2004 by sardion2000]

[edit on 14-12-2004 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by sardion2000
By the way I'm high right now.

Oh, if everyone could be this candid........I think I've made some of my best posts on ATS while under the influence of weed....

At any rate....I actually work in the substance abuse prevention field - I've attended tons of conferences and listened with a very open ear when the words "marijuana" and "harmful effects" were combined....I've learned that just like any plant that your burn and inhale, there are going to be negative results.....But most of the "chronic" ailments from pot are related to HEAVY and REGULAR (daily) use by adolescents (30 and under) - These negative factors include damage to the hippocampus, lung cancer, stunted growth, impotence....

But basically your short-term memory is only affected WHILE you're smoking and improves/regenerates its ability once you stop....We have THC receptors in our brains....I think this is almost a sign that we were meant to smoke weed to some degree....or at least built with the hard-wiring for it....

Most anti-marijuana advocates can find NOTHING negative with the use of Marinol - which is pure THC extracted from marijuana in pill form....From what I understand, you still get a high...

Ask a specialist about the harms of using a vaporizer....chances are they'll be short on words....ask them about a joint and their instant response is to tell you it's equal to 10 cigarettes in its tar content....What they don't tell you is that 10 cigarettes has about 10000 times that amount of other harmful contents as opposed to one joint....

The benefits that a select group of people receive thanks to those few who are able to legally grow and distribute marijuana far outweigh the negative effects....and those effects should be understood by the user before they accept their Rx.....Those in CA who abuse their medical rights and fake their symptoms to gain an Rx for marijuana should be treated in the same manner as any other kind of pharmaceutical fraud....

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun

Originally posted by sardion2000
By the way I'm high right now.

Oh, if everyone could be this candid....

....I think I've made some of my best posts on ATS while under the influence of weed....

I can honestly say that I've made nearly all my post under the influence of weed (99.9%)

Personally, I think the medicinal use of marijuana, while much disputed, is something that definitely needs to be explored. as opposed to narcotic/opioid analgesics, there is no physical addiction or withdrawal from marijuana- it is purely a mental addiction, which can be avoided if marijuana is used for a purpose, and not abused (which doesnt mean that everyone who uses pot recreationally is going to become mentally addicted). Marijuana also has little or no side effects- especially constipation, which is damn near unavoidable when on opioids.

the basis for legalization is set- now what we need is solid, medical proof that marijuana does do some good, but we will not get to that point until we can find another way of consuming it, as the medical benefits of smoking are non-existant. Vaporizing is an option, since it heats the marijuana to the point of vaporization, which eliminates the carcinogens and all of that good stuff.

my guess- within the next 10 years, we see legal marijuana nationwide. alcohol and cigarettes kill far more people than marijuana, and not only will that spearhead the argument, but i think we'll see tighter alcohol and cigarette laws.

just my 2 cents.

Regarding the "soma" analogy from Brave New World, you can more equate that drug to alcohol and tobacco. (Also try reading "The Island" by Huxley, and you will see a different perspective) Those two are the drugs accepted by American/European culture throughout time, and it is easy to tell that alcohol and tobacco are drugs which induce a feeling of being "content" in society. I believe that is one main reason why those two drugs are legal. The drug laws have NOTHING to do with keeping the people safe. If they did, alcohol and tobacco would be illegal. But, they keep people content.

Drugs were originally made illegal to suppress Western thought and other cultures and religions. Marijuana made illegal to persecute mexicans, mainly.

Then, you start to look at the 60's. This was a HUGE time for the revolutionary spirit in America, and the counterculture was gaining more and more power and energy every day...many will tell you that a large reason for this was the excessive use of psychedelic drugs. Psychedelic drugs such as marijuana, mushrooms, acid, mescaline, etc...all UNLIKE alcohol and tobacco, will cause people to think "outside the box" and question the ideals of their culture, and also question society, the govt. etc.

People like Timothy Leary, encouraging everyone to drop acid, were a menace to the government, as it goes against the perfect form, structure, and order of the control in the country. That is why many of these drugs were officially made illegal around this time, and the DEA created, etc. The war on drugs is also still being heavily fought to prevent another period like the 60's from ever occuring again, which threatened the american society as defined by the government. This mass feeling of revolution did come to a halt with the cracking down on psychedelic drugs, the deaths of many musicians and other outspoken figures/leaders of the counterculture, as well as the winding down of the vietnam war...

That is just my opinion, take it or leave it.

[edit on 3-1-2005 by Shoktek]

John Stossel vs Bill OReilly On Marijuana Legalization

peterschiffchannel.blogspot.com...

I have experience with the whole MMJ scene in california and thought i would try to answer your questions from my research.

1. Am i getting this card from the government, and therefore couldn't this be traced, and eventually possibly used against me when i go to apply for a job or something.

Your not getting the card from the government, you receive a written recommendation from a qualified MD. I'm fairly certain doctor confidentiality will keep your medical records safe from the Feds but if they raid a MMJ dispensary that you have visited they will most likely get access to at least your name , address, phone number.

2. Am i now just purchasing this marijuana straight from the government rather than the government having to actually appear as if they are fighting a "war on drugs"

You would be purchasing the marijuana from other patients essentially, the main place would be dispensaries that buy from local growers and sell to patients. These are not run by the government.

3. Is this legalization of medical marijuana a good thing, what could this do to society? Text

I think it can be a good thing, from what I've seen in California it creates jobs and cuts down the market for illicit drugs from gangs. It could be a lot better but what can you expect? I personally feel that anyone who even occasionally smokes marijuana in CA should obtain a recommendation just for the shear fact it can save you time and money in the off chance you do get caught.

reply to post by leftyknew


I hear ya. I never got how people are "anti government" but when it comes to their pot its "oh please let me have it tax it, regulate it, put my name on a list so i am registered but let me have it please".