Affordable vs. Cheap: Firearm Ownership on a Budget

a reply to: projectvxn

Great thread. I have a question that fits in here.

A lot of people are concerned with taking the bad guy down if they need to, but I've always wondered what kind of hearing damage a home defense weapon will inflict on the user. I've gone hunting without ear protection(.30-30, 300 win mag) and it's left my ears ringing for a little bit after the adrenaline wore off, but I sure as hell think it would be a lot worse inside a confined space. Since most people can't afford a suppressor, is there a good, affordable gun that won't erase your hearing for those of us that need it? For what it's worth, my primary home defense weapons is an M&P 15.

a reply to: justwanttofly

Well unless you plan on doing regular home shooting I wouldn't worry about prolonged damage to your hearing. Always wear ear protection on the range and in the field.

Currently there are no weapons, by themselves, that produce sound below the 80dbl range.

a reply to: projectvxn

Thanks. I figured it wouldn't be that much of a problem for your hearing if it was a one time thing, but wanted to ask in case.

a reply to: SpaDe_

You cannot go wrong with Palmetto State Armory for a quality budget AR build.

I believe most if not all of their barrels are manufactured by FN.

My AR consists of a Palmetto upper, CMMG lower, BCM bolt carrier group.

LOL I have more money in accessories then my actual AR build.

a reply to: justwanttofly

Although I would love one, I can't really afford a suppressor.

What I do is I leave my over the ear hearing protection on my nightstand.

If I hear a bump in the night I quickly throw on my hearing protection, grab my gun, and go investigate.

I have the Howard Leight Impact Sport hearing protection which have built in microphones that amplify sounds like conversation but automatically blocks noise above 82 dB (gunfire).

It may allow you to hear a burglar in your house better too!

Well worth the $47.

a reply to: projectvxn

MY WASR 10/63 was one of the best purchases ever.

I think I paid about $550 out the door.

There are things one must look for when buying one though. Canted sights, canted gas block, make sure they have the right trigger (Tapco) etc.

If anyone is interested in purchasing one youtube this is a good video to watch.

If anyone is interested in purchasing a quality 1911 for a great price check out Rock Island Armory's offerings.

I find that Bersa firearms are reliable, well made, and less expensive than the competition.

as this is about affordable weapons, most semi-auto's should be ruled out execpt for ak's in 7.62x39 or .223 , i got a saiga in .223 years ago for 150$ just before Ovomit got elected, Ruger 10-22's always work great with a good mag,learn to make head shots out to 75 yards with one, and that will take care of most of your "problems".ar's are great shooters just too much $$$ to get a good one,Ruger mini-14's are always reliable ,but need a good set of sights,and arn't cheap.a tokarov in 9mm , or a markarov in 380 are good choices, nothing but reliable.only revolver i would get is a Ruger , because you can field strip them after dropping in creek or sand and you have to clean out ALL the junk inside,and it can be reassembled by most owners, most are not cheap though. plenty of cheap 20 ga pumps around, avoid a 870 in 20ga its a 12 ga converted to 20 and not reliable (massad ayoob).used mosin nagant rifles around and all i have seen are good, the carbine kicks too much ,but is handy,and cheap ammo too. Savage and Stevens bolt action rifles are great buys used.H & R single shot rifles are good too. Rossi makes single shot rifles with interchangeable rifle and shotgun bbls.its better to buy a good reliable weapon ,than a cheap one, save up your money ,get a part time job , sell your "stuff" ,GET A GOOD ONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If anyone is looking into a small .380 for a CCW, the Taurus TCP is a fantastic lil gun in the small budget range to look at.

It's as small as the Ruger LCP with a few more features and just as reliable. I picked up a couple for the wife and I to carry for $199 a piece on sale. Regularly they should be around $230 or so. Any more than that and your getting uncharged.

Most Taurus pistols are crap and I fully agree with that, but they have a few gems and the TCP is one of them.

Only issue I have ever had was a couple of rounds getting hung up on the feed tube when racking it. I was using super cheep rounds at the range though. A lil polish on the feed tube should correct that. Other than that it's been an awesome lil weapon for the price.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

Indeed.

There is a reason I recommend the WASR models.

I also agree that one should do research on older rifles, or used rifles before purchasing. Bent barrels and receivers are a common problem. Gas systems that are improperly aligned can also be a problem but is more rare.

a reply to: madokie

Can I ask that you use proper Capitalization, and standard writing format? I can barely make out what you're going on about.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

I was wondering if anyone would mention the RIA 1911. Great pistol with outstanding reviews. Prices have gone up but you can still find the for $399.

The only issue are the smooth wooden grips but those can be replaced.

a reply to: Feltrick

I also recommend taking a felt wheel on a 30,000 rpm dremel and some jewelers rouge to polish the feed ramp and all contact points.

a reply to: SubTruth

Good AR makers Colt,BCM,KAC,Noveske,LMT,Larue.

I couldn't disagree with this any more strongly!!

All of those but one has ASININE levels of markup that put you paying about 60% for actual hardware with a 40% surcharge for brand recognition!

Also as to the whole AK's aren't good to anything beyond 300 yards meme.... it wasn't true years ago and is even less true NOW.

For example the cadillac model out of places like Waffen Works doesn't even cost a grand.... quite frankly if you pay what ARSENINE ... excuse me Arsenal asks for the stuff they sell you're stupid, not a savvy shopper.

I mean logic like this is how people get suckered into buying ACR's converted SL8 to G36 and the worst of the worst SCAR's!!!

All of which BTW are the AR18 warmed over (oh did I mention except nowhere near as good and INSANELY expensive considering they heavily use extrusions and etcetera?) I mean honestly considering what the guts of these guns really are, $2,000+ for ANY of them is criminally stupid and financial RAPE. The only one that's even semi interesting is the K&S aerospace m17s remix... but even that still fits my logic because it retails for $1799.

Now another one that I think is EXTREMELY underrated is the masterpiece arms MPAR556 with a street price in the $800 dollar range. Both this and the new m17s share the leader t2 derived triangular bolt which is, frankly, superior to the normal AR bolt!!

Also the vz2008 is an extraordinarily good choice!

SO yeah basically, pay more than that if you hate your wife and wallet!

In addition.... there's a .308 I could go buy as many as I want of right now for under a grand.

a reply to: madokie

Really in the current climate it's no more expensive to buy an AR than an AK.

As to your other points....

umm... why would ANYONE buy a 20 gauge? do you like paying more for ammunition that's not as good?

Also the firearms you listed all pretty much fall under CHEAP rather than good buys! Either that or so old as to be useless! The reality is if you won't shell out $500-$800 bucks for a decent rifle, or $250-$400 for a handgun.... your priorities are flat screwed up!

Now, that being said there ARE ways to NOT spend that kind of money while still getting the minimal acceptable level of quality that any sane firearm owners should insist on. It's called SWEAT EQUITY... $300 worth of tools another $100 bucks worth of books and a few thousand hours of sweat equity will build you a TOP NOTCH collection, and result in the side benefit of giving you unparalleled levels of familiarity and intimate knowledge of every facet of your own collection!

How do I know this?

It's what I do silly! I have a great collection that i've literally paid as little as pennies on the dollar of retail value to acquire!

a reply to: TorqueyThePig


Torquey thanks so much for the suggestion on Ear pro...

Also if you are buying Ak's or etc in the flesh I have a suggestion of a small and very affordable kit one should carry to any possible purchase.

1. Flashlight with the ability to focus the light down to a fairly small point: These are great for checking for blemishes or damage to finish, bore and rifling brightness/corrosion.

2. T square, Ruler, and optionally a laser pointer: This will let you physically confirm that everything is square and lines up the way it should in an unobtrusive, quick, and non invasive manner. Also if the seller objects to you using these items to evaluate their gun, it's a good indicator they aren't on the level.

3. Go No GO gauges and optionally a bore sight laser: with this group of items you can be sure the weapon is headspaced and the sights are at least within spitting distance of lining up with the bore. If a weapon for sale has sights that are nowhere close to lining up it can be an indicator of other issues or a plain lazy and probably bad owner. Go and No Go gauges also give you a physical assurance that head space on the rifle is within prescribed variance and the gun will in fact chamber a round and head space won't cause catastrophic damage. (there are other things besides head space that can make a weapon non serviceable, however even if a gun is pristine otherwise but the heads[ace is wrong you risk an explosion maiming and death!)

One note on head spacing go no go gauges: Have a competent and preferably licensed gunsmith SHOW YOU what it should look and feel like when you close the bolt on the go gauge FOR THE MODEL OF WEAPON YOU"RE INTERESTED IN if you've never used them before! (throw him a $20 for his time! Trust me on this! It'll be the best $20 bill you ever spent!)

4. a phone and your BRAIN: There are just as many bad gun owners as good these days, possibly more. But at the end of the day there is NO ONE that is responsible for you making a bad decision other than YOU!

You're looking at less than a hundred dollars in outlay for a kit that will serve you well in much more than just purchasing firearms. It also fits easily in a BDU thigh pocket.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: SpaDe_

For guys like you and I building your own is an excellent choice. I considered actually including a general guide to getting parts on the cheap to build a quality rifle. But what I really wanted to do is bring the new shooter into the fold. Someone with not a lot of experience in firearms, the firearms market, or knowledge on what resources are out there. Those people are usually the more budget conscience buyers because they aren't looking to blow money on something they don't understand.

Can't blame them for it either. So for the purposes of saving money, time, and maximizing the new shooters' ability to afford ammunition for training and familiarization I decided to forego the "Build Your Own" aspect of budget guns.

Thanks for this thread, should be flagged to juipter and back !!

Not a new shooter here with some xp behind the M16 A1 w/ M203 attachment (if that dates me any *grin*) .. love that combo and was always a preferred choice in that setup; shotgun 12 & 16 but hardly if any xp with handguns..so this thread is deeply appreciated and bookmarked.

originally posted by: TorqueyThePig
a reply to: justwanttofly

Although I would love one, I can't really afford a suppressor.

What I do is I leave my over the ear hearing protection on my nightstand.

If I hear a bump in the night I quickly throw on my hearing protection, grab my gun, and go investigate.

I have the Howard Leight Impact Sport hearing protection which have built in microphones that amplify sounds like conversation but automatically blocks noise above 82 dB (gunfire).

It may allow you to hear a burglar in your house better too!

Well worth the $47.

great tip~!

thx ~!

originally posted by: projectvxn

Semi-Auto Freedom Defending Anti-Zombie Rifles:

For the purpose of this thread please be advised that affordable tactical rifles that aren't junk usually run from $500 to $700.

The AK platform tends to be more affordable than the AR platform. For the purpose of the budget minded, I highly recommend the AK platform for a few reasons.

1. The AK rifle itself is more affordable. A good quality VZ2008, for under $500 bucks, is a good place to start. The CAI imported WASR 10, one of the best AKs on the market, will run you a little more than $600. So we're talking high affordability and reliability. But for the purpose of this thread I recommend the VZ2008.

2. Ammo is CHEAP. The AK platform will typically eat any kind of ammo you feed it, be it cheap steel cased Wolf ammo, or top quality Match Grade brass cased. This leaves you with the ability to stockpile large quantities of ammunition for a mere pittance of what it would cost to do the same with 5.56/.223 Remington ammunition.

3. After market support is nearly universal for all AK based rifles. Which means that finding parts, accessories, and magazines is not only affordable but easy.

Just for clarity, while the VZ2008 fires the same round as the AK, is NOT an AK, doesn't use the same magazines, and parts are not interchangeable... With that said, I've read a lot of good things about it and think it is a great bargain right now. The last few months Palmetto State Armory has been selling them off and on for under $400 with 5 magazines...

Another little known gem in the handgun category is also made in Turkey - the SAR K2 in .45 ACP, imported by EAA (European American Armory). Manufactured by Sarsilmaz and used by the Turkish military, they have been on sale as low as $350 recently. I've read nothing but good reviews of them. And with a little modification they can use high capacity 1911 magazines (Para-Ordnance P14)