Question About God and Revelations

First off I have to say I am not religious but I do believe that there is a God in some way or another. I was raised by a single mother who is a devout Christian so naturally any questions I have about God or religion are met with vague, extremely illogical answers. Lately I've been really curious about Gods plans for mankind as it pertains to the Bible, more specifically the part about revelations. I'm confused as to why God would create mankind and the earth if he only ever intended to destroy everything at a predetermined date and time. What would be the point of our existence if it's already been determined that we're all gonna be killed off in one way or another or taken to heaven if that's what you believe. How important can our lives be here on earth if the bible says God will soon rain down fire and chaos upon all of us? If people who are so dedicated to the teachings of the bible are aware of this event then why not question Gods reasons for creating us in the first place? Why put us here if you're just gonna destroy us? I don't know but it makes my life seem that much more meaningless assuming it's all true and will happen at some point. Another problem I have is if God is supposed to be "all-loving" then why would he choose to destroy us and everything we've built? That doesn't sound like an "all-loving" God to me. Is there anyone that can make sense of this or at least have an intelligent thought about it?

While the Bible came from one point in history...


It is based on chronological events...



Revelation for example is based on the visions of John, who received his message from *insert your choice of being here*...


So it could be said that it wasn't God's original intention, just a premeditated reaction.


Free will plays a big part in all of this.
It can still be free will even if predetermined...
I will try my best to explain how.


God would have seen all eventual outcomes of His creation...
So in turn I believe God would have imparted enough knowledge for any sort of end game...

Sort of like a cause & effect...
God knew the effects, but didn't decide the causes...
In the sense that we were given control of the cause... With numerous outcomes as a possibility...



Example:
A drunk leaves the bar...
God acknowledges this occurrence & leaves the drinker with the free will to decide whether he;
A) catches a taxi
B) walks home
C) sleeps it off on the nearest bench
D) is driven home by a friend
E) catches a bus
F) jumps in his vehicle and drives regardless of inebriation...


Thus God sees the effects, but doesn't decide the cause.


Hopefully this partly answers your question...

However I don't feel I am philosophical enough to give you a complete breakdown.

a reply to: cj6
The book of Revelation is meant to be a message of encouragement for the church.
If somebody says to you "When the bullies start beating you up, don't worry; I will come along and beat up the bullies", that is a message of encouragement.
The book is being addressed to a church being persecuted by the world (which is why we can't undertand it properly when we're not in that situation).
The "disasters" are meant to be God's response to the persecuting world.
Then when you go to the end of the book, you find that evil has been removed from the world, and God's people can be permanently in his presence.
So the message of the book of Revelation is all about hope.

(I've done a series of threads on Revelation where all this gets outlined systematically)

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

So basically God gave this John a vision of revelations based on his idea of the worst-case scenario?

a reply to: cj6

That's one of my personal belief on Revelation.
The other is that it is a Spiritual warning, rather than a Physical encounter.


I can't speak for others however.

a reply to: DISRAELI

So revelations may not even happen at all? Is that what you're saying?

a reply to: cj6
I'm not saying that it won't happen.
I'm only saying that we're not there yet.
The end of the book is a promise in line with the rest of the New Testament.
The events before then hint at what will happen on the way, though the descriptions are full of symbolism.

a reply to: DISRAELI

I guess my biggest question is if it does happen then what was the point of creating is in the first place? First you create then you destroy but it's pointless and our lives mean nothing to this God.

a reply to: cj6
But as I've already pointed out, the end-product is not destruction.
The world is not being destroyed. The point of the "disastrous" events is that evil is being dealt with and removed.
It is tackling the dilemma that the whole Bible grapples with; how God can detach himself from evil without detaching himself from the human race.

a reply to: DISRAELI

But what about the rapture and the notion that some of us will be left behind to endure the chaos? Does that make us evil if we're not deemed worthy to be taken to heaven?

a reply to: cj6
There is no "Rapture" in that sense in the book of Revelation.
It is a modern idea.
There is no reason to think that believers will be "taken away" first.

a reply to: DISRAELI

That's reassuring because I doubt I would be in Gods favor. Too many rules. Anyways I appreciate you're input my friend. Here's hoping revelations is just another bedtime story

a reply to: cj6

What is happening is God is translating his Spirit/will into the light/physicality/form...

He is doing "good" concept (re)production.

Concept = Awareness (Father)
Re = Image of awareness (Son)
Production = will (Holy Ghost)

"Good" = Love (Love is supposed to be just but some people equate wicked desires with what is good. The evil you think of does not exist. There is only just good/love and unjust good/love.)

We are apart of his will/desire. We were meant to be his children, but we were tricked into gaining knowledge of wickedness before we were able to become what we were supposed to be - fully aware of how to image "love".

Now what you're saying is that our work (our translation of the spirit into the light) is good and should be kept, and maybe some will be, but the fact remains that there is still some work/translations within the body that is corrupted by wickedness and that must go - if it doesn't go, it will spoil the entire thing... And that is what will go along with those who refuse to become purified.

What you are supposed to be doing is translating the spirit within you (the breath of life or the spirit of the Son) into good fruit.

You receive a seed (awareness of the spirit / what is heard) and then you go plant it to produce the fruit of love - you produce the image of the awareness of spirit - you (re)produce the concept.

Matthew 16:19
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

2 Samuel 3:10
10 To translate the kingdom from the house of Saul, and to set up the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beersheba.

Colossians 1:13
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Hebrews 11:5
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Romans 10:17
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Luke 8:11
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

The easiest way to conceptualize/understand what I am saying is to think of these very words you're reading now as the image of my awareness of my spirit. Instead of seeing the shapes of the letters, you should be spiritually minded and see not just my awareness but my desire as well. With these words, I am trying to (re)produce my concepts in you, just as you were trying to do with your words above - and the reason we both tried, is so that we could produce "good fruit"/love - you are trying to conceive "good".

Ephesians 1:10
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

1 Corinthians 15:28
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Once you can hear all that, you should be able to just go outside and see it - you should be able to be still and see it - it should seem so similar to what we are, and everything we can see, because it is what everything we can see is.

You raise some good points and questions as well . God is not only the God of creation ,but the God of re-creation .He has His purpose for doing things the way He chose to in order to create the best possible outcome He could .Some have speculated that He did it to replace the fallen angels with re-created creatures (man) to occupy the heavenly realm .The christian church is said to be the bride of Christ ,so the relationship would suggest a very intimate one that the angels do not have the ability to have . In a much more simplistic term ,you cant make a omelet without breaking a few eggs . The spiritual rebirth within the believer is in conflict with the sin that is in them .This constant war that builds up the believer is a ongoing process and requires the individual to become more Christ like during the process .I am sure I have not fully addressed your concerns or questions to the fullest but only offer a bit from a older and somewhat rebellious person ...best of luck in your quest . This is a link to a great teacher of the bible and has a series on learn the bible in 24 hours you might like to check out www.youtube.com... a reply to: cj6

There are lots and lots of answers to your questions and the truth iss God still remains very mysterious, we as a Church dont have all the answers.

Disraeli dismisses the rapture with a comfortable ease, I dont, I am not saying it will happen, I just dont have a solid answer. Its still a mystery.
No offence Dis'

You have a few issues I would like to address. God created humanity for relationship, not as play things or on a whim

We live in a time where we can choose to be in a relationship with God or not, now. Just like in Eden but our time is not perfect, Gods plan is to return humanity to Eden

Revelations is a bit like the last battle in a movie, where good finally overcomes evil, its like the police catching the criminal before he is sentenced for their crimes.
Maybe its one last testimony for the truth to be exposed?
Revelations is a book about justice finally coming to humanity, a time when sin is exposed, judgement is delivered, judgement according to the old testament law.
Hell is a place those outside of Christ will go, outside of God they will remain. It is and was their choice not to enter a relationship with God (Reformed Christians argue this)

Is hell eternal? Thats another question that can be debated hotly
We dont have all the answers.


How important are our lives here, not important enough that we should covet them, that we should become self centred or sinful, important enough for God to come to Earth and die for us.
Important enough that we can sacrifice out lives for others like Christ has done.

a reply to: cj6

What would be the point of our existence if it's already been determined that we're all gonna be killed off in one way or another or taken to heaven if that's what you believe.

That is a popular version that has been promoted with a lot of money to get people to not engage in politics in a way that would make the world a better place, by getting people to just say, "What's the use?"

What the Bible really teaches is people of faith engaging in activities that improve the situation here on earth for everyone.

How important can our lives be here on earth if the bible says God will soon rain down fire and chaos upon all of us?

What it actually says is that fire will be "rained down" on the causes of chaos, and lack of peace.

a reply to: jmdewey60

Seems like it would be easier to not ask questions at all, it jut created more confusion. Maybe I have too much of an attachment to this place but even with all of its flaws and constant chaos, I believe this can be home. I just loathe the fact that it's not my choice. Our lives are not in our control and that is unfair. No matter what any of us choose to do with our lives it can all be taken away if He chooses to. Like I said before it's all meaningless. We're like puppets living on borrowed time. The Bible makes my head hurt

originally posted by: cj6
a reply to: jmdewey60

Seems like it would be easier to not ask questions at all, it jut created more confusion. Maybe I have too much of an attachment to this place but even with all of its flaws and constant chaos, I believe this can be home. I just loathe the fact that it's not my choice. Our lives are not in our control and that is unfair. No matter what any of us choose to do with our lives it can all be taken away if He chooses to. Like I said before it's all meaningless. We're like puppets living on borrowed time. The Bible makes my head hurt

Maybe you have to easy a life, to self centred?
Its not my home, not my life
It can be taken away by your government if they go to war, it can be taken away by a natural disaster a criminal or act of violence.
You dont know what your future holds, one thing for sure, humanity with out God will destroy everything with out His help.

Gods act promises reconciliation, an end to chaos, He promises there will be a better future.

If your life is so good now, its sad you dont have a little compassion for those in the world being persecuted or suffering who do want a better future.
I want justice

a reply to: DISRAELI

'It is tackling the dilemma that the whole Bible grapples with; how God can detach himself from evil without detaching himself from the human race.'

Well said, very well put.

a reply to: cj6

It is not your life, it is his which he has purposed unto you. Do you know the parable of the vineyard? Do you want total control so you can corrupt this reality? There is only one body - do you want to mess it up for everyone?

If you get something bad in your body, you either try to cover it with something good, or you try to cleanse it by washing it, burning it, or spitting it out, and he does the same thing.

If you say you want to create good, then you are saying what he is saying, and there is no conflict.

The Truth already exists, He has always existed, and God is giving you the opportunity to help translate the spirit of him into the Body of him.

If you want to make your own truth, well, you can't. The image is Truth, and you just can't make your own truth - it is not subjective.

Where's the conflict?