Jim Jones was framed, and the CIA caused the suicide at Jonestown

a reply to: Grifter42

So many questions, so few answers.

But that's why we're here: For answers.

This is a scary topic (mass mind control) and the mass of publicly available source material related to Jonestown can get intimidating. There is a lot of source material out there. The "Official Narrative" is constructed, for public consumption in mass media, tv reports and government documents from this source material. But there is always the opportunity for historical review and for a new, improved narrative to come out. I'm not going to name names but some prominent people are still alive who were intimately involved with the narrative of the Jonestown massacre in Guyana.

I read in "Our Father Who Art in Hell" that people thought Jones had a double in Jonestown, and had fled.

Of course, that's a sort of standard conspiracy, but I can't help but think of the missions of Tim Carter, Mike Prokes and such, who fled with millions of dollars. Who were they fleeing to?

They could have told a lot of lies very quickly to justify their possession of that money.

Michael Prokes blew his brains out after, but Carter didn't.

Carter's answers seem incomplete.

Are these people still loyal to Jones, or to the true people who committed these acts?

Either or, their programming seems intact to me.

a reply to: Grifter42

Of course, that's a sort of standard conspiracy, but I can't help but think of the missions of Tim Carter, Mike Prokes and such, who fled with millions of dollars. Who were they fleeing to?

Are these people still loyal to Jones, or to the true people who committed these acts?

Yes indeed Grifter. These unanswered questions leave me somewhat cold. I've heard on Mae Brussell's conspiracy archive - she made some links between Jonestown and Reagan's invasion of Grenada - apparently there were some Jonestown survivors medical records kept in a university hospital on that island. en.wikipedia.org...

Mae's speculation was based on published newspaper reports, that the invasion of Grenada was a sweep/clean-up operation for lingering evidence of CIA involvement in the Jonestown massacre.

We have to also consider this: if the CIA were really involved with Jonestown deaths then they would naturally want to control the official narratives, which they have successfully done through the media. But just because the media agrees to tell the 'official narrative' it does not mean the CIA are off the hook.

Note the similarities in the Jonestown/Grenada scenario:

Jonestown en.wikipedia.org...

Grenada

In 1983, then-member of the United States House of Representatives Ron Dellums (D, California), traveled to Grenada on a fact-finding mission, having been invited by the country's prime minister. Dellums described his findings before Congress:
... based on my personal observations, discussion and analysis of the new international airport under construction in Grenada, it is my conclusion that this project is specifically now and has always been for the purpose of economic development and is not for military use. ... It is my thought that it is absurd, patronizing, and totally unwarranted for the United States government to charge that this airport poses a military threat to the United States' national security.[15] Source en.wikipedia.org...

Ron Dellums en.wikipedia.org... was a man who was on Richard Nixon's "enemies list" and Ron Dellums was a thorn in the side of Ronald Reagan in regard to the United States position on South African Apartheid.

Of course, the big question mark with Jonestown is how Mark Lane really got involved representing Jim Jones/Peoples Temple who was attempting to create a socialist paradise.

What other lingering questions are there??

pa reply to: cavtrooper7

pardon my ignorance. what does NRO stand for?

never mind i found it.

A lot of those followers at Jonestown were suicided by Jones thugs. they also killed the children first from what i remember. Once you kill or let your children be killed I am sure suicide looks pretty good. remember this was back before abortion was "cool".

I think the CIA may have played a role somewhere but for the most part Jones was just your typical commie fraud looking to better things for himself while hiding behind "sharing and equality". There are some interviews out there with Jim Jones son. He is very well spoken and sincere from what I get. i remember he talked about not judging the people of Jonestown or the incident but learning from it. I dont think he has a high opinion of his father.

Personally I dont think Jones was CIA. He may have been a pawn and not known it but CIA operative...no way. Jonestown was more a less a group of hard core evil extremists that managed to fool a bunch of gullible people looking for some sort of utopia. I think a lot of the victims were good people that got sucked in and couldnt get out. many people of jonestown were trying too leave but jones wouldnt let them. lots of head games. Theres a reason he chose to have them out in the middle of the jungle and its not all about land availability. You wanna leave go....nearest town 20 miles or so through thick jungle and hostile territory. No telling who was out there.

you guys want a real conspiracy look no farther than WACO. government just went in and Killed a bunch of people on that one. Kids, women whatever.

a reply to: agenda51

there were 2 One is OFFICE the other is Organization
now there is only one.

originally posted by: Grifter42
They were murdered, but not by Jones. He was a man who truly knew the climate of the U.S.A.

If he had been left alone, Jonestown would be a paradise by now.

Are you suggesting that he/his leaders did not order the poison in the cool-aid?

Anyone that thinks of Father Jim Jones in a positive light never listened to the Jonestown death tape. The tape where he tells mothers to ignore the cries of their babies as they injected them with poison, for they were all going to a better place.

I read daily such starkly contrasting accounts of things, it no longer really gives me pause. So for a long time, my search has been about what has produced a history so at odds with itself, in so many circumstances. To some, Jones was a misunderstood savior. To others, he was a charismatic killer. Can a person be both, synonomously and concurrently….or what are the alternate explanations?

I walk a lonely road with saying this, but all one would have to do is search threads I've written or posts I've made to see I've written quite a bit about the idea that time is, in fact, at least, here, wherever that may be, recursive…..that "resets" happen, and the same repeats, with in some cases, very slight alterations. Scientifically, the many worlds, dimensions, string theory, etc. are all ways of explaining this phenomena.

Some even claim people die and then are replaced, by someone looking the same but who isn't…..

I'm not gonna take all that on hereabouts, other than to point out, obviously, that Jim Jones and Jonestown were iconic examples of this in play: dependent upon whom you speak to about him and what happened there, he was either killer, deliverer, savior or all of the above.

What I will say it's it is very obvious from the politics in play at that time that this event had "company" ties. Make of that what you will. Some say we operate in a hell where a cull of life is necessary for the rest to continue to live. Ask yourself, perhaps, why that would be? What would be achieved by that? Why were the predominant race involved of the people in Guyana African American? And those people I encounter who laugh at me as crazy…..well. Sure. Right you are. No prob.

originally posted by: framedragged
Anyone that thinks of Father Jim Jones in a positive light never listened to the Jonestown death tape. The tape where he tells mothers to ignore the cries of their babies as they injected them with poison, for they were all going to a better place.

I agree.
Here it is.

a reply to: framedragged
I agree with you. But I also don't need to listen to the tape nor remember most of my own life, than to hope to God, that they really, really were……

And so should all of us. We are born into this world so frigging helpless, so exposed and unable to protect ourselvses.

originally posted by: tetra50
a reply to: framedragged
I agree with you. But I also don't need to listen to the tape nor remember most of my own life, than to hope to God, that they really, really were……

And so should all of us. We are born into this world so frigging helpless, so exposed and unable to protect ourselvses.

LOL...you sound like Jim Jones

originally posted by: agenda51

originally posted by: tetra50
a reply to: framedragged
I agree with you. But I also don't need to listen to the tape nor remember most of my own life, than to hope to God, that they really, really were……

And so should all of us. We are born into this world so frigging helpless, so exposed and unable to protect ourselvses.

LOL...you sound like Jim Jones

Well, you sound like someone, too. Hmmmm……
I wonder if this would be called "disrespecting the dead in order to make your point….?"
They were babies, dude……sry if you're offended. So am I. No relation, whatsoever, to Mr. Jones.

a reply to: tetra50

Yeah, I never need to listen to it again. I only listened to it for a term paper on Jim Jones. Otherwise I steer well clear of such grim things. Wasn't the most uplifting semester and it all stemmed from that paper.


And to anyone who wants to watch (listen to) the above, then do so knowing that it won't do your soul any favors. Especially given the organ music they taped over which comes through in the end...

originally posted by: framedragged
a reply to: tetra50

Yeah, I never need to listen to it again. I only listened to it for a term paper on Jim Jones. Otherwise I steer well clear of such grim things. Wasn't the most uplifting semester and it all stemmed from that paper.


And to anyone who wants to watch (listen to) the above, then do so knowing that it won't do your soul any favors. Especially given the organ music they taped over which comes through in the end...

Excellent warning to folks, framedragged. Sry, so sry you had that to deal with as a student. I'm all for the freedom of information, but sometimes I gotta wonder…..for there are things in the journey of mankind that will haunt one for life. Your reminding of the organ music is another reminder of the demonization of religious belief and doctrine, while supporting it on the other hand…..

Would do well for folks to think on that conundrum, perhaps, for a little…..for it defines much of what we're about, here.
tetra

originally posted by: tetra50

originally posted by: agenda51

originally posted by: tetra50
a reply to: framedragged
I agree with you. But I also don't need to listen to the tape nor remember most of my own life, than to hope to God, that they really, really were……

And so should all of us. We are born into this world so frigging helpless, so exposed and unable to protect ourselvses.

LOL...you sound like Jim Jones

Well, you sound like someone, too. Hmmmm……
I wonder if this would be called "disrespecting the dead in order to make your point….?"
They were babies, dude……sry if you're offended. So am I. No relation, whatsoever, to Mr. Jones.

nah not offended. I think I probably misunderstood yout post. I think Jones was a truely evil SOB. I would have liked to put a bullet into him before he forced a bunch of kids to die. I tend to agree with themsurvivors when they talk about how a lot of the jonestown people were really good folks. I am no fan of communism but but I think those people just put their faith in a false profit and got themselves so deep they were paralyzed by fear very similar to Hitler. Jones was a master manipulator.

Honestly I am pretty fascinated by the history of the Nazis and Jonestown. I have a lot of the documentaries and like to follow it. My favorite for Jim Jones is Jonestown: Paradise Lost. pretty amazing take on the incident. His son is in it a good bit along with the survivors. One of which left his infant son (who was killed) to escape by himself. pretty heartbreaking stuff. I find a lot of parallels to it and the democratic party actually LOL.

Charles Manson and WACO are fascinating subjects to me as well. Although David Koresh to me was nowhere near the level of these guys.

a reply to: framedragged

I agree its tough to listen to when you know what happens in the end. hearing people in the background not going along with it and the majority agreeing with jones. then look at the aftermath pictures. Awful stuff and jones had gone mad at the end.