Catholic Church Exposed - Satan in the Vatican?

a reply to: TechUnique

This isn't information for me but if it opens anyones eyes even for a second.
Then it was worth it. Other than that, it isn't just the catholic church or
the gov. or family guy etc. This whole damn inhuman world man has created is
showing it's teeth as it trembles nervously. It's all coming apart and just imagine
what another decade will do. I doubt if it will go that long.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: TechUnique
Why are both Jesus and Satan referred to as the morning star?

Odd that link doesn't mention that the Hebrew in that verse from Isaiah says "helel ben-sahar" for the word that gets translated as "morning star". It's not, it's "crescent moon and star."

There is absolutely no mention of crescent moon in Isaiah, not in Hebrew, Greek , Latin or English, whoever told you that isn't right and it is spelled Helel ben Shachar and means Shining One! Son of Shachar (Venus aka the Morning Star) and nowhere does it say or mean crescent moon you are flat out incorrect.

originally posted by: Dr1Akula

originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
a reply to: TechUnique

The exact passage in the bible is Isiah 14: 11-13

"11 Thy pride is brought down to hell, thy carcass is fallen down: under thee shall the moth be strewed, and worms shall be thy covering.
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?
13 And thou said in thy heart: I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit in the mountain of the covenant, in the sides of the north."

Due to an error in Septuagint translator ''Morning Star'' was translated to Εωςφορος = Lucifer
Eosforos is a Greek divinity related to the morning star, referred to in Greek scripts from at least 8th ce BC.
But this passage from Isaiah is clearly referring to the king of Babylon Nabucodonosor.
When Jerome translated translated the vulgate, he did not adopt the original Hebrew text, but the Septuagint text, and when he found Eosforos he translated it to Lucifer.

“How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!”
– Isaiah 14:12


There was an ancient myth in the Babylonian literature that Heylel the morning star Venus

I have searched high and low for mention of Helel in ancient Semitic and Mesopotamian mythology and come up with zero. Do you have a source, a link or the name of the book with the myth of Helel because it is not in the Ras Shamra tablets or in any published translation of any ancient mythology I am aware of.

My theory is that it's Halal and not Helel and just means shining one or to shine as in Hallelujah. Or that Halel/Helel/Hallel is an esoteric myth and Hallelujah a way of esoterically saying Helel is Jah that has been obscured in meaning deliberately.

scaled to great heights to make himself like a king in the heavens but was quickly driven back down. That is what the king of Babylon will be like…one who rises to great heights and then is toppled from his high position.
That's how Isaiah used the term morning star.
And that's were the Hebrew views of the fallen angel relate with Lucifer.

Lets see exactly who Isaiah 14:12 is referring to and it is not Jesus or the Devil. Look back at Isa 13:1 – “An oracle concerning Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz saw.” (NIV). Isaiah 13 speaks of the destruction of Babylon (see especially 13:19). Chapter 14 continues this message. 14:1-3 is about the return from exile back to Israel. Then notice 14:4 (just 8 verses before the verse in question) – “You will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:” The taunt seems to go from 14:4b-8. Then 14:9 talks about the grave meeting them at their coming. Meeting who? The same people the taunt was against – Babylon. It is a curse referring back to the object of their taunt…not Jesus or Satan but the King of Babylon.

True.

Eosforos and Hesperos were Pagan (Greek, Roman) gods of Venus and often the term Eosforos or Lucifer was used as an epithet to various Gods or wise men, meaning those who bring wisdom (light) to others.
It had nothing at all to do with the Devil, except from the fact the church demonized all pagan beliefs and thus Lucifer became Satan in the eyes of christians.

With that in mind morning star was also used in an entirely different meaning by John to describe Jesus in revelations.

“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” – Revelation 22:16

John lived and wrote the revelations in the Greek Island of Patmos which was a strong pagan society at that time. Thus his use of the word morning star refers to the Greek meaning of Eosforos and means literally the bringer of light (wisdom).
morning star was the one meaning Eosforos

No Palestinian Jew would have written in Greek what was a Hebrew Revelation so when John says Morning Star he would have used Shachar, the Hebrew Eosphorus and a Semitic goddess of ancient Canaan. This was a Revelation to a Jew from a Jew and John for certain would have known who Shachar was.

Lucifer is Helel, not Shachar or the Morning Star, Lucifer is the King of Babylon poorly translated, Shachar is the Morning Star, Shalim the evening, equivalent to Eosphorus and Phosphorus of Greek mythology and the goddess Venus.

Satan coveted the role that Christ was to play in his time to come. But he never was the light bringer or morning star. He was false, a fake, a charlatan, an imposter.

No! Satan never had any relation with the Morning Star or Lucifer or Eosforos or Hesperos or Fosforos that Idea was brought by christians because they despised all pagan beliefs, and thought of them as satanic, demonizing every aspect of polytheism, and wrongfully accusing them for idol worshiping.

Ok you do get it, I mispoke.

Jesus Christ was always the true light bringer - the Morning Star.

That's a believers subjective opinion and I respect it, but Jesus or Satan had nothing to do with this term's origin, that was used way before Jesus, to describe other Gods and before it became an epithet it referred to Heylel or Eosforos or Lucifer, or literally to the planet Venus which brought the sun, so they are the true original light bringers.

The Morning Star is more fitting as representing the Virgin Mary, she was the Light Bringer bringing the Messiah into the world.

Probably why Lucifer was falsley associated with/as the Morning Star when it's Helel that got translated to Lucifer, to de-popularize Mary.

Catholicism today has elevated the Virgin Mary which I think is good, Islam also greatly reveres her. Mainstream Fundamental Christianity de emphasizes veneration of Mary as if she is not the Queen of Heaven and it's odd the direction that Catholicism has taken vs Protestantism when originally it was seen as taboo to venerate the perpetual Virgin as Catholicism started out believing all women were responsible for the "sin" of Eve.

a reply to: TechUnique

The Morning star can be Venus ... at certain times it is clearly seen in the morning sky
As was Sirius in the long lost past marking the inudation of the Nile
Or even our own Sun as it is a star that rises in the morning

Religion can be a jumbled mess of things taken from other relgions

Horus was the son of the morning star Sirius for example
Isis his mum is represented by Sirius

But it can all get very confusing

We are all children of the Sun our star so was Jesus
This is also science as we know the Earth was formed from the Sun

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Who told you that Helel or Shachar is the crescent moon, where do you get your information and why do say things without even bothering to say what your source of information is?

I know that you know what you said is untrue because you have yet to respond as you often do when you think someone spoke incorrectly about Judeo-Christian beliefs and the Bible.

So I am going to guess that you are being fed anti Muslim propaganda trying to associate the non existent "angel" who was really a Babylonian King called Helel (by Isaiah, an adjective) and translated poorly to Lucifer, a once believed to be name of "pre-fall" (Satan isn't fallen) Satan that has been quietly abandoned after the mistranslation was discovered and properly reinterpreted to exclude the use of the word lucifer although it hasn't stopped the unscholarly from believing the oral tradition of the fall of Lucifer to Satan. It's now only officially believed by Islam as Iblis being Lucifer and Shaitan but not in the context of overthrow of God but as a disobedient angel who refused to bow to Adam as he was made of light and first.

So if you are trying to say that it means Crescent moon to associate Islam with Lucifer to make it a Luciferian religion I find that despicable and to be hate propaganda designed to slander a religion because it doesn't think Jesus is God just the Messiah, which agrees with the New Testament that NEVER calls Jesus God, and clearly states the superiority of the Creator God over the creation Jesus.

It seems like Islam is correct and properly interpreting the Gospels as they believe in the Virgin Birth and LOVE Jesus and Mary, yet because of a minor difference in theology you want to demonize them.

AND by telling an untruth to boot. Helel ben Shachar doesn't have any relation to a fallen angel or the crescent moon but specifically the planet Venus and a King.

I suggest you change teachers as only a corrupt church would ever spout such a blatant lie and if you actually believe that lie I honestly feel sorry for you as you have a negative view of Islam that is not reality but agitprop and you are an advocate of hate propaganda repeating something someone told you without even checking to see if it has a basis in truth, I know this because it has no basis in truth whatsoever.

Helel means shining one, ben Shachar means son of Venus, not the moon.

You really should not be going around saying things that have no basis in fact and your silence makes me think you might even know it isn't true but just wish it was because you for no reason hate Islam.

a reply to: artistpoet

I think Horus was the sun, Osiris Sirius and Isis either Venus and Set the moon.

I am still busy with many books but I plan on starting Plutarch next month or so.

He explains the whole thing allegorically and I think properly, I will find out soon.

a reply to: Taxiarch

Some do conflate Helel with Arabic Hilal, but I'm not convinced.

Of Dead Kings and Dirges: Myth and Meaning in Isaiah 14:4b-21

Islam is however the antichrist as Islam denies the Father and Son, "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." 1 John 2:22
And in practice Islam is pagan polytheistic idolatry.

In the same way the Babylonian King is a Satan, ie literally an adversary, just as the King of Tyre was - there is nothing unique in setting oneself up as a god, as Mohammed did

Allah says, "Say: 'If it be that your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your mates, or your kindred; the wealth that ye have gained; the commerce in which ye fear a decline: or the dwellings in which ye delight - are dearer to you than Allah, or His Messenger, or the striving in His cause;- then wait until Allah brings about His decision: and Allah guides not the rebellious." (9:24)

By demanding love equal to Allah as his co-partner Mohammed makes himself a god, further "Obey Allah and His Messenger" (2:32) and "Believe in Allah and His Messenger." (4:136) "Allah" joins with Mohammed together using the conjunction of partnership ie wa

Indeed, that was the promise the Serpent sold. "and ye shall be as gods"

Satan expresses as an individual, just as Legion - [see Mark 5 ] the demon collective did, and Satan as a collective personality includes those who set themselves up as the Day Star, Son of the Dawn, be it Kings, false prophets, or wayward disciples, as Peter did, when he with good intentions he got in Jesus' way.
" But he [Jesus] turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence
unto me: " Matthew 16:23

originally posted by: RudeCherub
a reply to: Taxiarch

Some do conflate Helel with Arabic Hilal, but I'm not convinced.

Of Dead Kings and Dirges: Myth and Meaning in Isaiah 14:4b-21

Islam is however the antichrist as Islam denies the Father and Son, "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." 1 John 2:22
And in practice Islam is pagan polytheistic idolatry.

That's a minor theological issue that doesn't make Islam the Antichrist as there is no such thing as THE Antichrist but antichrists who deny Jesus is the Messiah.

Islam believes Jesus is the Christ/Messiah and Christianity with its Trinity is far more Pagan than Islam with its pure Monotheism. I think you are being intolerant and a hater for no reason and hyper superstitions as Islam is a perfectly acceptable monotheistic faith that worships the same God as Christianity and is correct by saying that Jesus is not God as Jesus himself says he is not God and never claimed to be anything other than the Son of God and Islam only says he isn't God's Son because they don't believe God has a Son, a minor technicality that in no way makes Islam antichrists.

They actually are very fond of the Messiah and mention him and Mary in the Qur'an and confirm the story of the crucifixion with a slight variation.

Oh freaking no, a different opinion than yours!!!

I guess I am antichrist too because I don't think like you do, my views are more Gnostic and closer to Islam than Christianity. I actually took the Shahada because I got tired of people like you slandering a great people and religion and while I hardly go to the Mosque as it's too far from my house I AM a Muslim because I took Shahada so you just called me antichrist but I like Christ/Messiah Yeshua so you are spewing garbage to someone who is a Muslim that is hate fueled propaganda and you should be ashamed as Christ would never approve.

In the same way the Babylonian King is a Satan, ie literally an adversary, just as the King of Tyre was - there is nothing unique in setting oneself up as a god, as Mohammed did

Now you show your total lack of compression of Isaiah and Ezekiel as neither was The Satan just adversaries of the Jews and their god.

Mohammed NEVER claimed to be God so you are totally f.o.s.

Allah says, "Say: 'If it be that your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your mates, or your kindred; the wealth that ye have gained; the commerce in which ye fear a decline: or the dwellings in which ye delight - are dearer to you than Allah, or His Messenger, or the striving in His cause;- then wait until Allah brings about His decision: and Allah guides not the rebellious." (9:24)

So??? That's a nice passage, the rebellious are not guided by God, His decision is a reference to Judgement Day, same Judgement Day as Christianity preaches.

By demanding love equal to Allah

Never happened, Mohammed is just a Prophet and never claimed equality with or to God/Allah. Stop it with the agitprop, you are wrong on so many levels it's disgusting.

as his co-partner Mohammed makes himself a god, further

Your words, not the Qur'an's.

"Obey Allah and His Messenger" (2:32) and "Believe in Allah and His Messenger." (4:136) "Allah" joins with Mohammed together using the conjunction of partnership ie wa

Indeed, that was the promise the Serpent sold. "and ye shall be as gods"

You are sick, stop persecuting Islam, Allah is God, Mohammed is a Prophet and Jesus is the Messiah in Islam. They hate Iblis/Shaitan just like Christianity and you are being very ignorant and intolerant, it's really sickening.

Satan expresses as an individual, just as Legion - [see Mark 5 ] the demon collective did, and Satan as a collective personality includes those who set themselves up as the Day Star, Son of the Dawn, be it Kings, false prophets, or wayward disciples, as Peter did, when he with good intentions he got in Jesus' way.
" But he [Jesus] turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence
unto me: " Matthew 16:23

So wrong, so misguided and yet you think you know what you are talking about, but you have absolutely no clue and are twisting and lying about the beliefs of Islam by saying Mohammed claimed equality to God by using your words next to Surah quotes that don't even support your allegations.

Get over yourself.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Dr1Akula

But this passage from Isaiah is clearly referring to the king of Babylon Nabucodonosor.

No, it's referring to the antichrist, and well specifically satan (the accuser) behind the antichrist. "King of Babylon" is one of the 33 titles the Bible uses for the antichrist. Nebuchadnezzar never fell from heaven, that was the former anointed cherub, aka the devil.

Again you are wrong. Isaiah has absolutely nothing to do with Satan and any Bible scholar of good repute will tell you, as will any Jew, that Isaiah is delivering a message to the King of Babylon.

The Antichrist is a misnomer and has no basis in scripture. There were antichristS after the crucifixion, not in the days of Babylonia when Christ was not yet a word.

You mean the Beast, which there are 3 of and Isaiah is not talking about the Beast.

He is ONLY talking to and about the King of Babylon and the planet/goddess Venus/Schachar of Canaanite mythology.

Stop making up stuff and preaching positively proven wrong concepts/interpretations to suit your personal agenda.

You are living with a middle aged interpretation that every serious church has abandoned including Catholic and Protestant denominations that would be embarrassed by your mistaken acceptance of outdated and incorrect interpretations/translations that have been corrected in scholarly circles.

a reply to: Taxiarch

Yes Horus is represented by the Sun
Isis is represented by Sirius
Osiris is represented by ... Now this is merely speculation that it may be Orion or even Sirius B
Set ... It is speculated that it is representd by Aldebaran in Taurus

But I can not say any of this is true for sure
One thing to remember is this ... in ancient Egypt these gods and goddess were originally not gods and godess as we in the west think of say a god
They representd natural/universal laws as understood back then

Good luck in your studies

a reply to: RudeCherub

Answer me this:

How is Islam, a religion that believes Jesus is the Christ (Messiah, Anointed One), the Antichrist WHEN, a. No such thing exists in the Bible and b. They absolutely don't deny Jesus' New Testament status as the Messiah and fully accept the Virgin Birth, the ressurection of the dead and the same exact prophets as Judaism and Christianity.

If any religion was against Christ it would be Judaism but I have listened to Rabbis who, minus Pauline "theology", declare the Nazarenes an "Acceptable Spiritual movement" that was corrupted by Paul and the church of Rome and turned into THE MOST pagan religion on earth, the Catholic Church with all its secret Babylonian idolatry and veneration of saints?

The very word Christ is of pagan origins and was not used by Jewish Messianics, why call the Messiah the Christ when he was not a Greek or Roman and we have an English word for Messiah?

Why adopt the Egyptian belief in deification of a man and the Trinity but accuse Egypt of being pagan for believing in a trinity of Osiris/Isis/Horus and the enemy Set.

How is that any different from Father/Son/Spirit and Satan?

Islam on the other hand is the absolute most pure Monotheistic faith on the planet and you falsley accuse us of being pagan because you CHOOSE to FOLLOW some propagandistic spew that you obviously didn't pick up by reading the Qur'an but from someone who has an agenda to slander Islam.

Why can't Christians stfu about other religions and just live and let live, why do you guys demonize every other religion?

Because you lack faith, know it, and think that by persecuting Islam you become a better seeming Christian to your fundy peers.

Do you honestly think that slander makes you righteous or pious, that telling falsehoods about Mohammed (PBUH) and Allah/God Most High such as the whopper of a lie that Mohammed esteemed himself on the same level as God is going to get you through the pearly gates?

Mohammed was a Prophet (PBUH), Jesus/Issa is the Messiah and was properly honored by Mohammed who prophecied by the archangel Gabriel and didn't consider himself even equal to, but a student of Gabriel.

Jesus preached tolerance not persecution and nothing about Islam goes against anything that the Messiah decreed in fact it was Catholicism that influenced Islam and it's beliefs except the apostate Paul.

Why does honoring the traditions of the Gospels and revering Jesus make Islam against Christ?

Why are you, a supposed Christian, persecuting when you know that persecution was prevalent in the early days of Christianity, you are no better than the persecutors of Christianity.

Allah is God, Allah is Great, Blessed be Allah the merciful.

Your views are whack and hypocritically out of sync with reality. Do you honestly think that judgement day is going to be about a statement of belief or based on your actual deeds?

What kind of a God would send people to hell for being a good person with a different belief than your own?

That's the problem with the world today, everyone is buying into this faith only doctrine that goes against the Gospels and the Epistle of James, leader of the Church of Jerusalem when the Church was centered in Jerusalem. Paul was an apostate that by some strange set of circumstances got his epistles canonized by the early CATHOLIC Church.

Read the writings of the Church fathers, the Ebionites and Nazarenes were Messianics and the first followers of the Nazarene and fully rejected Paul which led to their eventual demise and most likely contributed to Islamic beliefs.

Catholicism is the great apostasy as any Protestant will (hypocritically) tell you yet Protestants use the same Bible as Catholics minus some OT Apocrypha that are actually good sources of information.

I told you . Actually John told you. Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is Antichrist.

Islam is a heretical pseudo-christian personality cult - so of course Mohammed included, badly by and large stories that were popular with the Arabs of that time - some were Christian, and some truths made it in, like the virgin birth, that Jesus is the Word of God ie the Creator, however because Mohammed is a false prophet and was making it all up as he went along, the Koran self contradicts itself on this point - and many others.

I knew you'd accuse the Catholics of paganism, and I'm not wholly down with everything pope, but seriously, I'm reminded of the analogy of Asimov's

My answer to him was, "John, when people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the earth was spherical, they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."

Islam is to paganism as thinking the world is flat - which btw Mohammed clearly did, and taught as much, which would be fine in and of itself, but Mohammed being Mohammed he attributed the knowledge to psuedo-Gabriel, the "angel" that acted like no heavenly messenger ever, but behaved exactly like a demon.
Catholicism is thinking the world is spherical in this analogy. ie not quite right, but way more right than a religion that thinks so highly of it's idols it will kill you, if you "insult" them. When was the last time Catholics killed someone for drawing a funny picture, or burning a bible?

Of course Egyptian pagan polytheism was pagan, what are you smoking? At no time did I say it wasn't.
However Egyptian pagan polytheism isn't going around claiming to be true Monotheism - which Islam does.

Again what re you smoking, you talk of tolerance? Islam as practiced by Meccan Mohammed doesn't tolerate other religions, it subjugates them, taxes them, and makes non Muslims effective slaves.
Try taking a bible into certain Islamic countries or building a church.

I don't know why you have such a hard-on for Paul, I quoted from the letter of John, but you've clearly drunk the Islamic cool aid on that, but Paul's teachings are derived from Jesus, anyone telling you otherwise is selling you a pup. But then again Mohammed tells you the moon is further than the stars, and that Alexander the Great was a good Muslim who visited the place where the sun sets - literally into a muddy pool.

Do you honestly believe anything you can do for Judgment day is going to impress God? I mean is your pagan idol allah so simple that human actions are worthy of reward?
But then again Islam teaches you to bow to a pagan idol the Kabba, every time you recite your vain Pagan repetitions speaking to your long dead demi-god saying Peace be upon you, O Prophet - does your man-go hear you?

a reply to: RudeCherub

John said anyone who DENIES the Son(Christ) or God (Allah).

Islam denies neither, they just don't refer to him as the Son but as the Messiah. That's semantics, not denial.

Dude, you don't tell me what the Bible says, I have read it. Christianity is the heresy, by attributing the status of God to the Messiah, who is not now (in Judaism) and was not then prophecied to be a god or the God.

The Bible doesn't even call Jesus God, states in no uncertain terms his inferiority to God making the Trinity doctrine both pagan/polytheistic and doctrinally untenable.

Islam only makes God/Allah to be God, not Mohammed as you so blatantly tried to pass off as fact.

The sins you accuse Islam of are the sins of Christianity as Islam is in no way heretical viewing Christ appropriately as the Messiah, not even violating the scripture you try using as proof.

You got nothing but a grudge against Islam and I don't care to converse with hate propagandists who lack faith in their own religion and compensate by attacking the Faith of others.

That's my religion, hate it, love it:

Move on.

a reply to: Taxiarch

Are you really a Muslim?

It seems not - because you just threw the Koran and Sunnah under the bus over what you are calling semantics.


Surely they lie when they declare: "Allah has begotten children".
-- Sura 37:151

& 112

1. Say: “He is Allah, the Unique.”

2. “Allah, the Self-Sufficient.”

3. “He does not give birth, nor was He born.”

Islam clearly says Allah is not a Father, nor does he have a Son. Which is absolutely denying the Father and the Son.

The sins of Islam are plain to see, again when was the last time Christians killed for insulting their bible, or cartoon, or damage to art etc. It doesn't happen because Bible following Christians don't worship idols like Islam, nothing physical like a mere book or some meteor stone has any spiritual value.

Paul said. Php_3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,.

Do Muslims think the Kabba or the Koran is like dung? Because that's Paul's teaching regarding all things other that Christ, they're as feces. As Jesus said the Kingdom of God is like a precious pearl, that a man sold all he had to possess.

The FACT is Islam ie Mohammed told his followers to love him as much as Allah, to obey him as much as Allah. No Apostle or Prophet in the bible EVER dared make themselves equal to God in this way.
Only Jesus who is God did these things.

Islam worships Mohammed BECAUSE it won't image his physical form, again making Mohammed equal to God who is Spirit - ergo an idol god. God who is Spirit CAN'T be imaged, so it's wrong to try, however the physical three dimensional man can be imaged, thus art is absolutely fine, provided you're not bowing down & worshiping a mere thing - like Islam does.

You don't care to converse because you can't reconcile your cognitive dissonance, the facts of how Islam acts vs what it pretends in vain talk.
Islam is to pure monotheism as prostitution is to pure virginity.

The Bible doesn't even call Jesus God

I had to laugh at this.

Jesus calls himself God. He calls himself the "Son of Man" the title given to God in the prophecy of Daniel. He identifies himself by the name God gave to Moses "I am."

The Apostles worshiped Jesus as God, not his body, but rather the Spirit which the body contained. That's like bowing to the Angel of the Lord, or Cloud over the Temple or the Mountain, or the Burning Bush - these being examples of the literal presence of God's Spirit ie God physically appearing.

This is bowing "toward" a thing but aiming at ie bowing to what is beyond the seen three dimensions ie the Spirit who is manifestly there. Bowing to things when the Spirit isn't manifestly there, as Islam does to the Pagan Black Stone is just plain idolatry.

Christian's consume the physical - the "body and blood" to remind us the physical isn't God - but a means to reach God, a way to the Father through the Son.

Peter says "2Pe_1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtain a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of God and Saviour Jesus Christ: "

The Old Testament clearly tells us about the Son.
Isa_9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

See the titles of the Son - the child that is born, include Mighty God, & everlasting Father.

God is both Father and Son. Father and Son are titles of one Spirit, with one name above all other names - Jesus.

The Jews had by the time of Jesus long understood that *the* Son of God (as opposed to sons of God) was poetic expression for the literal appearing of God in human form on Earth, also called by the title Angel of the Lord.
ie

"Who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?" (Proverbs 30:4).

They understood this appearing emanated from God, and was God, but that the physical appearing was not a thing to be worshiped - as God is Spirit.
In simple terms what was seen was only a tiny fraction of God, but God nonetheless, but never was the whole of God seen, hence no one has "seen" God [in entirety] nor is it possible to do so in three dimensions.


The question Proverbs 30:4 refers to the Angel of the Lord, "and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?" who appeared thus to Manoah as reported in Judges Chapter 13.

Jdg 13:18 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, `Why is this--thou dost ask for My name? --and it is Wonderful.'

Which is why in Isaiah above the first name of the child that is born, the Son given, who is the everlasting Father and Mighty God, is Wonderful.

So Jesus appears throughout the old Testament, is identified by Isaiah and born to Mary - the part of the Koran that is almost true.

Protestants generally are not critical of their old mother cult.
And Jews WANT all to think the Great Whore was/is the Church.
Its real Christians who tell the truth about the Great Whore of Rome.

The Vatican fulfillment of Rev 17&18 is God-given confirmation of the truth of Jesus Christ. The Fulfillment reveals that such as the Inquisitions were not Christian activities, but rather Papist activities. People need to know this

Though many modern alleged "Christians" are oblivious to and/or deny the following fulfillment, many others have seen the fulfillment for centuries. It was a main battle-cry of the Reformation era Protestants and was common knowledge in Protestant circles until a few decades ago [as Protestantism lost it’s salty savor/corrupted].

One presents EVIDENCE in order to convince.
Prophecy fulfilment is EVIDENCE.

Servants of Jesus seek to convince all that the NT is true, and Jesus is Lord.
Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto His servants ..." Rev 1:1

Servants of Jesus see the Vatican's perfect, unique, visible and verifiable fulfillment of the Revelation's ch 17&18 description of the Great Whore Mother is highly significant, precious God-given EVIDENCE confirming the truth of the NT and Lordship of Jesus

Seeing the Vatican for what it is in the sight of Jesus sheds great light on past, present and future.

The following is a correlation of some of the Revelations descriptions, and unique fulfillment found in well known facts re: the Vatican.

From chapters 17 & 18 …. IFO = IN FULFILLMENT OF

Rev 17:2 '.....with whom the kings of the earth committed immorality....'.
IFO 17:2 - Immoral ties of the Vatican with earthly rulers are presently and historically verifiable.

Rev 17:4 '.....and the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet...'.
IFO 17:4 - Find a picture of the Cardinals in full costume.

Rev 17:5 '.....Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots....'.
IFO 17:5 - The Vatican calls herself the 'mother' 'church' because the denominations came out of her.
The denominations share her perversion.

Rev 17:6 '.....drunk with the blood of saints...'.
IFO 17:6 - Study the inquisitions. A policy of murder & torture of real people, carried out openly over centuries.

Inspired and directed by men who claim to be the unique and direct representatives of Jesus Christ.

Rev 17:9 '.....seven hills on which the woman sits....'.
IFO 17:9 - Rome is uniquely famous for its seven hills.

NO OTHER city nearly as famously nicknamed “city of 7 hills” as Rome has been since before NT was written.

For centuries the consensus of Roman Catholic and non-RC commentators was that Rome was the Revelation "city of 7 hills" ... just RC commentators claimed it meant pre-Papal Rome. [many still claim this]

Naturally with a billion Papist in the world, the truth regarding the Great Whore is oft disputed and RCs are happy to claim the “city of 7 hills” is any city other than Rome.

Rev 17:15 '.....The waters which you saw where the woman sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues....'.
IFO 17:15 - The worldwide influence of the Vatican is obvious.

Rev 17:18 '.....and the woman you saw is the great city which reigns over the kings of the earth...'.
IFO 17:18 -The popes long ruled openly over the kings of the known world. Every king knew that if he bucked the papacy, then the pope would - could - did encourage the citizens to revolt. This principle is still in practice today.

Rev 18:4 '.....voice from heaven saying: Come out of her MY people...'.
IFO 18:4 - Some R.C.'s belong to Jesus and will come out.

[they will also come out of the denominations]
This is happening now, and has happened before.

Rev 18:12-19 ....describes the great wealth of the great whore.
IFO 18:12-19- Vatican's financial assets [open & hidden] are enormous.

The Revelation says there is a great whore in the city of 7 hills.
Lo and behold, there is.

Most commentators place the writing of the Revelation at around 90AD, well before the Vatican existed.

This visible and verifiable fulfillment is God-given evidence confirming the truth of Jesus Christ.
"Come out of her MY people..." [Rev.18:4]

Seeing the fulfillment is a faith strengthening blessing.
Being in denial is not.

Seeing the Vatican for what it is in the sight of Jesus sheds great light on past, present and future.

www.mosquitonet.com...
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Taxiarch

All angels are morningstars & lucifers. Your Hillel son of Zachary made Talmud, and for his work he was given life as a human to write it down. Jesus was one of his clearest enemies. Read the Gospel with Talmud glasses on, and realize how nearly all of what Jesus demonstrates is a steady campaign opposing Hillel's Babylonian Talmud. Why did Jesus walk to the Mount of Olives every bloody Saturday? Why did he heal on Shabbaths, and....

Q: Why were Judas and Jesus hunted down and sought hanged before Passover AD 36?

A: It turned out the rumor about Tiberius' death came out one year early, so Jesus' parade as the new Caesar, fell in bad soil, I only hope Judas managed to hide the diaries.

Even though the report says Judas was hanged in his entrails, Jesus still was the true Son of Mars, and survived, his grandfather Eli's name becomes Julius in Latin, and Juli' son Caesarion was Joseph "Prince of Egypt" Ptolemy Caesar bar Davod. Jesus was "a true son of the gods". From the mouth of Cenurion Brutus Longinus who beheld his emperor and god, realizing his misdeeds, those words turned into an order to his subjects for Jesus to be salvaged and secured. Only gods and decent men know what Longinus prayed for that evening. Sigh....

The Bible was not written by God.

It was written by the scribes of confused shamanistic men doing their best. Inspired by God doesnt mean God entered their bodies as their scribes took notes.

Hence, Salvationism calling itself out many times as a mystery religion.

Everything Christ is, Lucifer is a powerless mirror illusion of.

The father, his single Right hand, and the dynamic work provided. Mirrored by the unholy trinity.

Fallen Fallen lightning lightning