Behind great fortunes is a great crime, proceeds of crime act and loss of social mobility

a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

That's why the revolution of the system and the revolution of consciousness have to happen simultaneously.

a reply to: werewolf99

I know that, the upper echelon is very tightly controlled and unless you're born into it, getting in is very difficult and that's an understatement.

a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

Well, true that!
But we should at least give it a try.

I would rather die on my feet than live my life on the knees.

a reply to: Necrose

Trying on its own isn't enough. We need to see how those in power will react to what we do and also us to them and ultimately what the future would be of our actions. Perhaps we can just struggle through but true power cannot be gotten just through hard work: not without a lot of luck: no we need to convince those powerful people that it is in their interests to do so. This is how Mugabe got into power, he moved up to the head of an organisation: mainly terrorist: and then took it into politics and convinced the powerful white farmers that he would do as they wanted him to and they helped him become president and then once he had power he did what he wanted to do. This is what is missing from many description of him is that he got power by convincing people they needed to give it to him.

a reply to: werewolf99
I tell you one thing mate, they ain't afraid of us.
I don't mean the bloody politicians, they are just puppets you know. I do mean the shadow government, the people really pulling the strings. The ones that do not walk out of their shadow and show their faces. The ones truly in power are sitting tightly watching us slowly killing oursleves and maybe throwing parties and laughing at us saying "them stupid proles ain't capable of hurting us, we are just too powerful hahah" and keep on sippin' their chilly Moët.

--edit://
I've just realized they would probably use more of a posh accent, indeed. LOL

I suppose this leaves us back where behind every big dynasty is a big crime.

a reply to: werewolf99
Yup, won't come up with anything tonight.
A glass of Tequila may help. Going to sleep to escape the reality.
Night.

"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime."
Honore de Balzac

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: dezertdog

Money's a total sham. It's just to keep us in line. To me no matter how rich you are, you're a peasant unless you're in that small group of families you mentioned. We're all chattel and slaves, despite some looking like they're kings of the world because they can buy the most junk.

I agree. Which makes me think something(s) behind the scene is pulling the strings.

originally posted by: Yeahkeepwatchingme
a reply to: dezertdog

Money's a total sham. It's just to keep us in line. To me no matter how rich you are, you're a peasant unless you're in that small group of families you mentioned. We're all chattel and slaves, despite some looking like they're kings of the world because they can buy the most junk.

I agree. Which makes me think something(s) behind the scene is pulling the strings.

a reply to: dezertdog

It's a prison imo. If you're not born into the club you won't get in and you're doomed to be a slave no matter how rich or successful you become.

A deception is what it is to me, and the whole awakening seems to be deliberate.

a reply to: werewolf99

I'm afraid your right. Kings Queens barons, etc. profited from Crime, then legitimised themselves by making laws to protect their wealth. The laws that essentially gave them all the land. Then rented it back to the less powerful. Now nothing has changed except the wealth base has increased. That's why Communism is their greatest fear, I don't know why because it is basically the same with the party officials becoming the new barons.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
If they were to try this in America it would take 100 years just to unravel the crime and the financials that go with it.
Add another 100 years to get past the army of lawyers they can afford.

Erm you do have civil forfiture laws.


Infact there are worse than here!

Least the money is suspended hefe, in the USA your police departments get to keep the cash!

a reply to: werewolf99

A S&F for forgiveness for semi-derailing here...

This has touched on an idea I have been having a hard time putting words to. This discussion is a good place to throw parts of it out there. Sure, I could write a book on the subject but who listens to that? It has to be quick, refined, distilled yet potent for it to germinate in someone's head during a discussion. Enlightening folks one cranium at a time.

Random bits of this discussion in need of a cogent narrative might sound like:

By definition, the wealthy and powerful will be a very small minority. Nothing new today.
Do the wealthy and powerful get to that position by nefarious means? Some surely do. Others by luck. Many get the spoils handed to them. Very few by what we call hard work.
The wealthy and powerful understand their position. It is maintained by constant consolidation. New members to the club are not welcome as it demonstrates their consolidation was flawed.
Capitalism/socialism/democracy/communism/etc are all different means to the same, age-old end. Those not wealthy and powerful may fare a little better under one system than another but the general arrangement is the same.
Looking through this lens, what are we to make of history? The 'great crime' paradigm seems to answer quite a few more questions than the grade school history book dribble so many embrace.
In the past, a hypothetical King would have had much more real wealth(land, gold, serfs, etc.) and real power(the military answered to him, he could legally silence his opposition, etc). I believe these types still exist today but we do not see them as Kings. They hide among or behind those with temporary/allotted wealth(numbers in a bank account, fiat money, etc) and temporary/allotted power(politicians, celebrities, etc) - - - What has precipitated this change?
Are the wealthy and powerful no different that any one else? Is this just what humans do when given the opportunity? Is there a biological component?

Sorry WW99, your post just got me thinking.

originally posted by: werewolf99
It has been said that behind every great fortune lies a great crime. If you look at some dynasties this is certainly true: such as the Kennedy's in America. But what has been introduced in the UK is something called the proceeds of crime act: this means that people can lose the money and any money made from the money from crime. Since this has been introduced the decline in social mobility has been substantial. I believe that the reason for this is because in many cases large amounts of social mobility are have really been about people profiting from crime, and this leaves us with the situation where social mobility has declines greatly. Don't get me wrong the removal of criminals being able to always profit from crime is a good thing and means that the true situation where by most people regardless of hard work or intelligence have bugger all chance of greatly moving up has finally been revealed. Now what do we do?

I think social mobility has decreased because too many people spend too much time doing unproductive things, like posting on internet forums and playing games, instead of working hard at building their own business.

Of course it's always easier to blame "them" for your own lack of success.

Some one always tries to shut down this type of discussion because then it means that there is something wrong with the world and the hypothesis that hard work is all that is required. Do you really think that hedge fund managers get there by hard work? Do you not think that nepotism has a hand in it and anyway what they do mostly is create package up crap to create the illusion of value like the mortgage backed securities problem which caused a major collapse. Also why are many Hollywood stars related to other Hollywood stars if hard work is all that is required? Those that aren't are usually born fairly rich and remember Hollywood is way less important that banking and many other areas: they are just marketing and when you on everything you don't really need marketing because you are only in competition with yourself.

originally posted by: werewolf99
Some one always tries to shut down this type of discussion because then it means that there is something wrong with the world and the hypothesis that hard work is all that is required. Do you really think that hedge fund managers get there by hard work? Do you not think that nepotism has a hand in it and anyway what they do mostly is create package up crap to create the illusion of value like the mortgage backed securities problem which caused a major collapse. Also why are many Hollywood stars related to other Hollywood stars if hard work is all that is required? Those that aren't are usually born fairly rich and remember Hollywood is way less important that banking and many other areas: they are just marketing and when you on everything you don't really need marketing because you are only in competition with yourself.

Yes and don't forget Presidents being related to other Presidents. Keep it in the family eh?