Infinate Possibilities You Are Everywhere Quantum Physics Time Reversal Symmetry & Super Positioning

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

The BIG BANG was/is a quantum object because it is all time and space contained within itself and is/was the size of a particle. Only our limited perception gives us the illusion of time and space, when in fact everything is infinate.

Math also shows us time and space. The Universe is mathematical or follows mathematical laws. So math can show us things beyond our normal perception. And it shows us time and space.
The illusion everyone talks about stems from Einstein saying space and time were illusions because of Relativity, not because they are actually illusions in some greater sense.
That's a common misconception.

Superposition isn't infinite in it's scope, not at all. The numbers may be large, 10^100^100 of possibilities but there are a limited number of states of those type of things.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Consider that the world is a simulation, wouldnt that explain superposition perfectly?

Exactly "The persistent illusion" In fact a program, in which the construct of the Universe needs the illusion of, linear time to become coherent,to read the program , firstly you must think that you are in it. So illusion of physical presence is constructed, Secondly you have to be aware that you can observe the program, which requires self awareness. Thirdly a memory to classify past events, because that is what the game is, a memory store. Then you can play it. Since it is a program in which the observer interprets the code to create a perceived future in the game. But at no point could it be anything more than the observation of an on going memory dump. Where everything is perceived as real with substance , but it is as it is, whichever way you look at it purely the perception of information data. By a conscious entity. Which makes it all very interesting.

originally posted by: anonentity

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

Consider that the world is a simulation, wouldnt that explain superposition perfectly?

Exactly "The persistent illusion" In fact a program, in which the construct of the Universe needs the illusion of, linear time to become coherent,to read the program , firstly you must think that you are in it. So illusion of physical presence is constructed, Secondly you have to be aware that you can observe the program, which requires self awareness. Thirdly a memory to classify past events, because that is what the game is, a memory store. Then you can play it. Since it is a program in which the observer interprets the code to create a perceived future in the game. But at no point could it be anything more than the observation of an on going memory dump. Where everything is perceived as real with substance , but it is as it is, whichever way you look at it purely the perception of information data. By a conscious entity. Which makes it all very interesting.

If the material universe is a simulation and there is evidence of it being a simulation, then one could simply say you have the same stuff everywhere just reconfigured to give it the illusion of being different.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

That thought had occurred to me. The stuff that is everywhere,, which is malleable in my opinion has to be consciousness, What else could build the perception of a Universe that actually exists. To build a relevant program, "time" would have to be installed because nothing without it would be coherent, so logical cause and effect couldn't exist without it. From then on, all possibilities remain on the table.

From our point of observation as we are in linear time, we have a problem seeing outside the box , we understand things have to have a beginning and an end. This concept is essential to the game on hand. So essentially everything is made from thought, and what we perceive to be a real world, is essentially a thought construct as well. It would probably have to be like ,that because chaos would have destroyed the fabric long ago if it were real.

So we are left with a vast infinite sea of information, that can be interpreted as multi dimensional space. Which is perceived as you have been trained to perceive it .Within the bounds of your personal physical bubble. Which exists to make the game relevant in linear time. But in reality outside of linear time the player, has always existed and always will, because Death is also a thought, essential to the game, and also an exit strategy. Whereas pain is also data, that adds to the realism.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

What is absolute. Is that the Universe is "infinite" The concept can become hard to grasp. As I comprehend it is, that in an infinite system. Their must be by definition an infinite number of possible probabilities, because its infinite they can all be to the infinite power. Which could be converted to meaning that everything you can comprehend exists. Not only does everything we can imagine exist, but also every state imaginable, and more that we cant comprehend, also must exist. The only limiting factor is that our perception, has to remain coherent for its comprehension.

With this state defined as the true, Nature of the Universe, the fact of Death existing is true, but it also means that personal survival, is also true, this has to be a guarantee in an infinite system.

So in an Infinite system, if all things are true, Then the statement that. "Their is no distance factored into faster than light travel" Then the converse statement is also true, "That their is distance involved in faster than light travel" The only reason these statements are paradoxical, is because the logic we use requires them to be. Which means only that our comprehension is at fault, because our logic has been trained in cause and effect, in a linear time system. Which is just one of the possible states within an infinite system.

originally posted by: anonentity


What is absolute. Is that the Universe is "infinite" The concept can become hard to grasp. As I comprehend it is, that in an infinite system. Their must be by definition an infinite number of possible probabilities, because its infinite they can all be to the infinite power. Which could be converted to meaning that everything you can comprehend exists. Not only does everything we can imagine exist, but also every state imaginable, and more that we cant comprehend, also must exist. The only limiting factor is that our perception, has to remain coherent for its comprehension.

With this state defined as the true, Nature of the Universe, the fact of Death existing is true, but it also means that personal survival, is also true, this has to be a guarantee in an infinite system.

So in an Infinite system, if all things are true, Then the statement that. "Their is no distance factored into faster than light travel" Then the converse statement is also true, "That their is distance involved in faster than light travel" The only reason these statements are paradoxical, is because the logic we use requires them to be. Which means only that our comprehension is at fault, because our logic has been trained in cause and effect, in a linear time system. Which is just one of the possible states within an infinite system.

I understand what you are saying but there are not infinite probabilities to any state in this universe. It's only 13 billion years old and can hold ~10^80 particles at most. Since we have a defined limit on size, the Planck length, there are only so many Planck units in a universe and a limit to all the probable states. No many how many variables there are it's just going to end up us some big power tower of possible states. It still won't equal Graham's number either.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Arbitrageur

What is absolute. Is that the Universe is "infinite"

This isn't really the topic of the thread exactly, but we don't know if the universe is infinite or just really big:

Is the Universe really infinite or just really big?

We have observations that say that the radius of curvature of the Universe is bigger than 70 billion light years. But the observations allow for either a positive or negative curvature, and this range includes the flat Universe with infinite radius of curvature. The negatively curved space is also infinite in volume even though it is curved. So we know empirically that the volume of the Universe is more than 20 times bigger than volume of the observable Universe. Since we can only look at small piece of an object that has a large radius of curvature, it looks flat. The simplest mathematical model for computing the observed properties of the Universe is then flat Euclidean space. This model is infinite, but what we know about the Universe is that it is really big.

Michio Kaku has offered his opinion that the universe is not infinite, just really big, but as he admits, our observations are not able to distinguish between those two options.

a reply to: joelr

According to the latest science, it suggest that the Universe is infinite. It also suggests that at infinite density, as in the singularity at the time of the big bang , and inside a black hole time stops. As with the photon at the speed of light, its time has also stopped. Consider then, how could their have been a big bang, because its time at its point of infinite density , had stopped, according to the laws of physics. So their could not have been a big bang because it would have required a dimension to explode into. Following this logic, what is it that we are looking at when we look into the Universe? I would then suggest one if not more of the infinite probabilities that exists, not in any real sense but, in the sense of a simulation. That primarily acts on the mind of the observer. As do dreams, OOBEs NDEs. etc. and finally what we perceive to be a life. Which is generated because it has our full attention of consciousness. The moment it hasn't this facility, it dissolves into another possibility.

I know I wont be popular with this, but ask yourselves am I not stating the obvious, we already know that theirs nothing physical out there. Except wave states that we perceive to be matter.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: joelr

According to the latest science, it suggest that the Universe is infinite.

Joelr meant the number of particles and mass isn't infinite, and he's right. You're saying the size may be infinite, that's possible, but size and mass are two different things.

It also suggests that at infinite density, as in the singularity at the time of the big bang, and inside a black hole time stops.

Not really, no. Time gets really really slow near the event horizon of a black hole from our perspective, but from the perspective of someone falling into the black hole, time doesn't slow down, it seems to progress normally, and it looks to them like the rest of the outside universe is passing by faster.

Also, physicists expect that a refined model of quantum mechanics will show some quantum state of a black hole which is not an infinitely dense "singularity" predicted by relativity (the relativity singularity is expected to not be accurate, if we could ever measure such a thing).

originally posted by: joelr

originally posted by: anonentity


What is absolute. Is that the Universe is "infinite" The concept can become hard to grasp. As I comprehend it is, that in an infinite system. Their must be by definition an infinite number of possible probabilities, because its infinite they can all be to the infinite power. Which could be converted to meaning that everything you can comprehend exists. Not only does everything we can imagine exist, but also every state imaginable, and more that we cant comprehend, also must exist. The only limiting factor is that our perception, has to remain coherent for its comprehension.

With this state defined as the true, Nature of the Universe, the fact of Death existing is true, but it also means that personal survival, is also true, this has to be a guarantee in an infinite system.

So in an Infinite system, if all things are true, Then the statement that. "Their is no distance factored into faster than light travel" Then the converse statement is also true, "That their is distance involved in faster than light travel" The only reason these statements are paradoxical, is because the logic we use requires them to be. Which means only that our comprehension is at fault, because our logic has been trained in cause and effect, in a linear time system. Which is just one of the possible states within an infinite system.

I understand what you are saying but there are not infinite probabilities to any state in this universe. It's only 13 billion years old and can hold ~10^80 particles at most. Since we have a defined limit on size, the Planck length, there are only so many Planck units in a universe and a limit to all the probable states. No many how many variables there are it's just going to end up us some big power tower of possible states. It still won't equal Graham's number either.

Its either Infinite or its not. If its infinite, then rules of an Infinite system has to apply. 13 billion years is just a number generated from one of the infinite number of possible probabilities that the observer happens to be in. The reality is that their is nothing out there except, information contained in wave states that we choose to interpret as matter. From the viewpoint of an observer observing a multitude of wave state, but concentrating on only one, the one called life. That is interpreted within a linear time frame. With linear logic. To make it coherent.

Time doesn't exist as an actual thing, its a tool necessary for consciousness used in the processing of logical thought. We perceive that time stops in a singularity. We have always been in an infinite singularity, because the beginning of our Universe was one, where linear time didn't exist, it never existed in anything but for thinking, coherently within the simulation, so how could it all be anything otherwise, than a thought.?

Its infinate and so are we.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: joelr

According to the latest science, it suggest that the Universe is infinite.

Joelr meant the number of particles and mass isn't infinite, and he's right. You're saying the size may be infinite, that's possible, but size and mass are two different things.

It also suggests that at infinite density, as in the singularity at the time of the big bang, and inside a black hole time stops.

Not really, no. Time gets really really slow near the event horizon of a black hole from our perspective, but from the perspective of someone falling into the black hole, time doesn't slow down, it seems to progress normally, and it looks to them like the rest of the outside universe is passing by faster.

Also, physicists expect that a refined model of quantum mechanics will show some quantum state of a black hole which is not an infinitely dense "singularity" predicted by relativity (the relativity singularity is expected to not be accurate, if we could ever measure such a thing).

The latest science that I have read, gained from the latest satellite information, suggest that it never ends. In fact its even showing the bruises that one Universe makes as it touches another. Which is what we should expect to see in "An infinite number of probable possibilities"

originally posted by: anonentity

According to the latest science, it suggest that the Universe is infinite. It also suggests that at infinite density, as in the singularity at the time of the big bang , and inside a black hole time stops. As with the photon at the speed of light, its time has also stopped. Consider then, how could their have been a big bang, because its time at its point of infinite density , had stopped, according to the laws of physics. So their could not have been a big bang because it would have required a dimension to explode into. Following this logic, what is it that we are looking at when we look into the Universe? I would then suggest one if not more of the infinite probabilities that exists, not in any real sense but, in the sense of a simulation. That primarily acts on the mind of the observer. As do dreams, OOBEs NDEs. etc. and finally what we perceive to be a life. Which is generated because it has our full attention of consciousness. The moment it hasn't this facility, it dissolves into another possibility.


The actual truth is that the word "singularity" is a placeholder for something we know nothing about. The laws of physics breaks down and we know nothing about that stuff. The " laws of physics" you are referring to do not exist.

Michio K makes a living writing about hypothetical concepts vaguely supported by this or that theory. He makes money and it's fun to imagine but it's not source-able science.

Hawking has a theory, the Hawking Hartle No Boundary conditions where time was literally the 4th spacial dimension before the big bang. But it was still able to merge into a bang at some point, I forget how.
You should check that out. But remember it's just a hypothetical thing right now.

originally posted by: anonentity


Its either Infinite or its not. If its infinite, then rules of an Infinite system has to apply. 13 billion years is just a number generated from one of the infinite number of possible probabilities that the observer happens to be in. The reality is that their is nothing out there except, information contained in wave states that we choose to interpret as matter. From the viewpoint of an observer observing a multitude of wave state, but concentrating on only one, the one called life. That is interpreted within a linear time frame. With linear logic. To make it coherent.

Time doesn't exist as an actual thing, its a tool necessary for consciousness used in the processing of logical thought. We perceive that time stops in a singularity. We have always been in an infinite singularity, because the beginning of our Universe was one, where linear time didn't exist, it never existed in anything but for thinking, coherently within the simulation, so how could it all be anything otherwise, than a thought.?

There are probably not an infinite number of states.

Again beware of pop-science mythology. We don't know what happens in a singularity.
Another one is that black holes tunnel and come out in other parts or other universes. White holes or whatever.
Of course, they would probably lose their mass quickly if that happened, we don't see that happen, but it makes for great "science" articles.

originally posted by: joelr

originally posted by: anonentity





Its either Infinite or its not. If its infinite, then rules of an Infinite system has to apply. 13 billion years is just a number generated from one of the infinite number of possible probabilities that the observer happens to be in. The reality is that their is nothing out there except, information contained in wave states that we choose to interpret as matter. From the viewpoint of an observer observing a multitude of wave state, but concentrating on only one, the one called life. That is interpreted within a linear time frame. With linear logic. To make it coherent.



Time doesn't exist as an actual thing, its a tool necessary for consciousness used in the processing of logical thought. We perceive that time stops in a singularity. We have always been in an infinite singularity, because the beginning of our Universe was one, where linear time didn't exist, it never existed in anything but for thinking, coherently within the simulation, so how could it all be anything otherwise, than a thought.?

There are probably not an infinite number of states.



Again beware of pop-science mythology. We don't know what happens in a singularity.

Another one is that black holes tunnel and come out in other parts or other universes. White holes or whatever.

Of course, they would probably lose their mass quickly if that happened, we don't see that happen, but it makes for great "science" articles.

Well consider that within every atom is a singularity and we may be in a singularity even now.

CERN has found black holes within atoms. . . .

It could be black holes within black holes ad infinitum.

Theres supposed to be a supermassive black hole in the center of our galaxy, we could be in it already and just not know it.

a reply to: joelr

According to the latest science, it suggest that the Universe is infinite.

Does it explain how an infinite universe could expand? It's this kind of science that makes no sense to me.

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: joelr

According to the latest science, it suggest that the Universe is infinite.

Does it explain how an infinite universe could expand? It's this kind of science that makes no sense to me.

Dark energy and dark matter expand everything including us in our fleshy forms.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Expansion of the infinite is the concept in question here.

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
Does it explain how an infinite universe could expand? It's this kind of science that makes no sense to me.

It was explained to me by this analogy:

Take an infinite sequence of numbers, multiples of 2:

2, 4, 6, 8.....and so on to infinity

Now insert between each of those numbers the odd numbers,(kind of like adding space between the galaxies):

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8......and so on to infinity

So both are infinite, but the second infinity has "expanded" to include twice as much in it. It's obviously not even intended to be a perfect analogy, just to illustrate a concept that infinities can get larger and include more stuff, like empty space in the case of the expanding universe.

Our brains didn't evolve to grapple with concepts like these so it's not easy.

If it makes you feel better, here's Michio Kaku's explanation. He says we are sort of like an ant that's walking along the surface of a giant hot air balloon which is round, but the ant is so small and the balloon is so large that the ant can't tell the surface he's walking on is curved...it looks "flat" to the ant. Likewise, the universe looks "flat" to us, but Kaku thinks that like the ant's perspective, our perspective only makes us think the universe is flat, but it may be just really big like the hot air balloon is to the ant. At least that way you don't have to deal with the concept of infinity, but if it's not infinite then you still have the question of "what is "outside" if there is such a thing, which there may not be and that too is mind boggling. So there probably isn't an explanation that's not mind boggling.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: joelr

According to the latest science, it suggest that the Universe is infinite.

Either infinite, or really big. If you think it has excluded the latter, you don't understand the latest science.

a reply to: joelr


Mass doesn't exist in any real sense its just our interpretation of what our senses tell us to think. We build reality upon this data. Remember the analogy of a brain in a jar, plugged into a computer, which continues to send data to the brain. The Brain would think its living a full and rewarding life. Getting on planes, making love having children etc. Life would be indistinguishable from this state.