The seemingly unfair demonisation of Jezebel

In the Apocalypse we can read the following:

I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel [ESV] Revelation 2:20

Who is this Jezebel, was she a member of the church in Thyatira in the time of John the Scribe, or is this an indirect reference to a theological line held by the priests in the city? Or is it a reference to Jezebel the wife of king Ahab who lived hundreds of years earlier? OR is it all of these? I believe this is a theological issue Hosé ("Jesus") wish to sort out or settle with the angel of Tyathira (Nicanor? Acts 6) and eventually, the conquering messiah.

First time we meet Jezebel in the Bible, is in 1 Kings 16 where she is named as the wife of Ahab, and how Ahab was a Baal worshipper and according to Gesenius, Jezebel was “infamous for idolatry, and cruel persecution of the prophets”. Between the lines of Kings, one could easily get the idea that Ahab saw himself as an embodiment of Baal which would make Jezebel an embodiment of Ashera, Baal’s consort, and the name איזבל or “Jezebel” may be interpreted to mean ‘Wife of Baal’ (BDB H348), but Gesenius translates it “without cohabitation” that is “without a husband”, and it could just as well be translated Strong’s way as simply אי plus זבל or “Not [Baal] Zebul” (Str.H336+H2083). Confusing? There’s more.

Jezebel’s supposed violent persecutions and slaughtering (1Ki 18:4+13) the prophets didn’t go unnoticed. One of these prophets, a certain Elijah called “the Tishbite”, decided that since Jezebel “cut off” the prophets of the LORD, he would order the LORD to “cut off” the rain in the Land, and during the drought that followed, plenty died, while Elijah settled by a brook named Kerit which means “Cut Off” further grinding his vengeful hate. There is a lot of wordplay and confusing euphemisms and names and titles being mixed around here (ref. www.abovetopsecret.com...), and there is mixing of time, and figuring out who hit first is often hard to tell. This whole thing is a huge “scribe’s trap”, so we better tread lightly so we don’t end up following the same track as these bloodthirsty gods, royals and prophets.

Whether Elijah cut off the rain before Jezebel cut off the prophets is unclear, but this whole thing started a series of massacres and periods of jihads and civil wars. After Jezebel killed nearly all the prophets of Jahveh, Elijah supposedly caused years of drought probably killing thousands and then went on and massacred hundreds of the prophets of Baal, and generally Elijah held a display of “putting the Lord your God to the test” and a haughtiness rarely witnessed elsewhere. Anyway, he pokes noses with the Baal prophets and makes fire come down from the sky to light a bull sacrifice, and then he turns on the rain again, and I guessed they were even then, but no.

This is merely the start of it, and I’m not sure this strife will ever truly end, it was the first thing Hosé ("Jesus") brought up when I first met him, so it’s still going on to this day. It is the war between good and evil, the biblical way. For the situation escalated even further when Jezebel rounded up a conspiracy against a certain Nabot whose farm land her husband and king Ahab coveted. After Nabot refused to sell Ahab his land, Jezebel posted letters in Ahab’s name to elite members of Nabot’s town demanding they'd stone Nabot, which they did. And when Ahab later came to inspect his newly acquired land, Elijah the Tishbite also showed up delivering a prophecy that as the dogs licked the blood of Nabot in that place, so would the dogs lick Ahab’s. However, when Ahab publicly regretted this whole situation, dressing up in sackcloth chanting "oy vey" Jahveh would spare Ahab and rather have his son fed to the dogs. I though this was Jahveh, not Moloch? And who is more blood thirsty here, the dogs or the gods? For the end of all of this is that Jezebel is eaten by the dogs in place of the list of men to be fed to the hounds after the prophets have interpreted and rewritten the prophecies long enough to make it fit. Shame.

Anyway, judging from the text itself, it’s difficult to figure out exactly what it is that has lead to the massive demonisation of the Asherah priestess Jezebel, while her adversary Elijah’s massive deification has left him with the fame of some Jewish Hercules— my best guess is that it eventually boils down to the nature of war and how the victors write the history books. Further, her name and its connection to Baal via her husband Ahab who was a legendary Baal worshipper who saw himself and his wife as the embodiment of Baal and Asherah. So political AND theological demonisation in other words. And let’s not forget her role in the execution of Nabot which turns it into some moral mitzvah aswell. But from behind the blindfold of Justitia it’s hard to discern who was worst, Jezebel or Elijah, and most importantly-- WHY? What do you think, O’ Eyes of Argus?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The Hebrew people would have not maintained their culture and religion if powerful royalty like Ahab and Jezebel had continued to seduce the people with Baal worship. As you say the Prophets of The Most High were slaughtered under her orders and we are told Elijah spoke for G'D and acted under His instruction to do what was necessary.

In spiritual terms it is the continued correction of the Hebrews under the requirements of the legally binding contract made with Abraham and Moses(Covenant and Law) they had with G'D. You know this already as it is a constant battle throughout the whole OT. Even David and Solomon fell short and they were the most loyal in the era of the Kings.

Politically, well it's obvious; the culture prevailed against the constant Baal, Ashera and other pagan gods' and goddesses' infiltration and pollution. The stronger side won. Ahab and Jezebel were demonized as betraying the Hebrew prime directive.

In Revelation Jesus is using Jezebel as an example of the adulterous nature of the Church He was rebuking.

The Hebrews were often very naughty and drifted away constantly from their Covenant and Law. The OT is a big long list of that. Strange really that Jewish identity won over through all that was tossed at it; sandwiched between huge empires like Egypt, Babylon, Greece and Rome, invaded and enslaved countless times yet never quite conquered. Even the priests, Kings and people were reluctant to living the Law and not worshipping other gods. We are told that it was G'D who kept them in line using the Prophets as a mouthpiece and their conquering enemies as punishment. Two Temples got destroyed because of their disobedience against the Covenant and Law and they were scattered twice only to end up coming back again. Very fascinating history of survival as a people.

Sorry to just be the traditionalist here, but I can only see it as part of Hebrew and Christian heritage. The whole of Scripture does not make much sense in any other context and might as well be nonsense.

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

That would be the typical Christian theological approach, though I feel it still echoes the bitterness of the old strife. The God with the "unspeakable" name JHVH wasn't introduced until in the time of Moses. And as Moses laid the foundation for his law-based religion-- and Aaron prepared the Hebrews theologically and morally-- the land Yoshua invaded was littered down with names relating to Canaanite deities like El, Baal and Yam, and in all essence the Torah is a theological and juridical map for navigating the Hebrews under Yoshua onwards-- clear of these gods and their customs and traditions.

While the Torah has survived a bunch of different religious paradigms resulting in an epic patchwork of sources reflecting different schools of theology-- the annals i.e. Kings and Chronicles, and the Prophets-- have not been the subject of this process of moderation and assimilation, at least not as obvious. Navigating through the stuff that happened under Ahab and Jezebel and later Jehu and all the blood and bitterness and hate, is nearly impossible because of all the emotions and fundamentalism involved. This whole story is about as hardcore and as gory as it gets in OT. It really makes me physically ill.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Haha! Me, too. It is well savage. It is actually the nastiest horror story I've ever read, the OT.

Somehow it all makes sense to me, too. I'm just sooo glad Christ came along. He is much more mellow. Thanks God for taking away that curse of the Law. Damn, it was heavy as.

Yes, the days of slaughter, bitterness and hate. The world is still so full of it.

I wish I could help you with your plea for Jezebel's pardon. Good luck!

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

Not so much a plea for Jezebel's pardon as a heads up on the different standards used for Jezebel and Elijah. Elijah with his Jahveh evidently were at least as bloodthirsty on their side-- as Jezebel and her Asherah together with Ahab and his Baal Sebul on the other side. I mean, is everything the Devil does automatically worse than whatever Jahveh could muster? A serious case of Who's-the-daddy? And of truly EPIC proportions.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The way I view the OT is really the history of God re-establishing a relationship with humanity.

Abraham came out of the latter Sumer civilization in Ur (modern day region of Iraq). He and his wife Sarai worshipped multi deities. The God of the Hebrews picked Abraham out and Abraham agreed to do his part because of what God was offering. They made a covenant, a legally binding contract, where God would do His part and Abraham and his descendants theirs.

God then began interacting through humans to establish a people. It seems His plan was to pick a certain people out and protect them. He did this operating according to human wickedness; he fought fire with FIRE. He had chosen them to deliver His Son up for sacrifice. The logic is that because they would be the people and culture to deliver the Prophets and His Son they had to be kept from wicked ways. He brought the Law upon them as a blessing and a curse.

The Temple rituals of cleanliness and animal only sacrifice (human sacrifice was an abomination to God as He showed with Isaac) were both a substitute for Christ's and human blood and a means of paying the price of sin in blood, something we humans brought about with the original sin. All over the world human and animal sacrifice was taking place. Christ paid the price for the sin and the blood requirement. He was given the authority to remove this whole curse. There was no longer any need for the Law because the job was done. The Hebrews were free of the burden and God's Word has spread to all people. We were released from the blood debt and the curse of the Law (blood requirement).

For me this is how it all makes sense spiritually: The Temple, the choosing of a people, the Prophets and the Covenant, and the Passover Lamb, slaughtered at the word of the Hebrew High Priest; "It is better for one man to die for all the people". That is why it was the Holy of Holies and all manner of cleanliness and ritual was attached to it. It was to be the altar of sacrifice for God's own Son.

As I said it all makes sense to me in a strange way. I do not think it is the end of the story either. Just as God totally revolutionised His presence among humans with Christ He will do so again I believe. I am at odds with the idea of some souls being in total torment forever while I bask in paradise. How could I be happy as a soul knowing that such torment existed for fellow human souls? That would be a paradox. Undoubtedly, if I had forever I would end up begging for God to have mercy and give the fallen angels and souls another chance.

Jesus told us to love our enemies. That means loving Ahab and Jezebel I guess. They are souls, too.

I wanted to take the time to go this deep with you because you are very intelligent and your thread deserves it. I apologise for my Christian take on it all, but it is the only way I can rationally make any sense of this warped Creation.

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

So we are led to believe. But while Saul Paulus says in Rom 15:15f, that «[...]because of the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering [U: or sacrificing] of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.» [ESV]-- the 13th chapter of the Apocalypse speaks of a certain prophet (read: the pope) on top of a worldwide religion (Rome and Babylon, the Roman Catholic Church and its empire) promoting human sacrifice (provincial ideas like "Jesus had to die for our sins, hence Jesus had to die") and doom those who don't believe and worship his fake Romanised animated Messiah (Jesus Christ) or his image (the Christian cross) or the number of his name (Jesus=616 in Hebrew gematria)....

My point is: It's rather obvious isn't it?

You can't steal somebody's vineyard because you are King & Queen just because you want it. You can't practice witchcraft, magic, summon demons and practice blood sacrifice in YHWH's country without attracting some negative attention. She was given space to repent and thought the mark of protection she received as a descendent of Cain couldn't be pierced by the one who gave it. Similarly, Job thought he was above punishment when he counseled Pharaoh to kill Hebrew babies in Egypt. Very few of them learned what David had learned about YHWH's forgiveness. The moral is if your don't want to end up as dog food be a person people can respect. Love God and your Neighbors and if they give you any reason to love them do it anyway because you might need them on a rainy day.

originally posted by: TheoFieldsGardener
You can't steal somebody's vineyard because you are King & Queen just because you want it.

Well, history is abundant, it's overflowing with the blood of innocents, prophets and well people, but none have had their passports scribbled upon as these guys. What they did was horrable, but even the bible is full of examples of such and worse. What is it that has turned almost every lexical or dictionary citation on Jezebel into this display of revolt and rebuke? We don't know much about her other than that she was the Queen of Israel and since this happened in a time when Baalism (in lack of better term) was the religion of choice-- part of her duty was that of being high priestess of Asherah. Asherah was traditionally Baal's consort.

We know very little of Jezebel as a person, the writers of Kings give her the responsibility for the killing of an undisclosed number of prophets, probably in effect of being queen or being Asherah's high priestess. Elijah says she killed all the true prophets of the LORD save himself, but what does that tell us other than Elijah giving her the blame? I mean he killed hundreds, if not thousands of prophets himself, but he's the hero of the day. Come on! I doubt she held the executioner's axe to make that one clear, but being the queen of Israel, she owned it and administered it. We could be talking about two executed prophets or two hundred, the text doesn't say. And there is the unfortunate episode with Nabot and his vines, where again, she is given the blame. Looks to me she did what she did to please her husband and king. A sad story that is, but not straight forward I'm afraid. Remember that the letters were styled in the name of king Ahab, and we only have the claims about her her supposed orchestrating the conspiracy, from the obviously biased writers of Kings.

What we do know about her is that in effect of being married to the king of Israel she would be the high priestess of Baal. So from that detail the dictioneers (in lack of better term) have spun endless columns discribing the cruel and evil rites of Baalism and Asherah worship. It is presented as true Satanism. Which in all essence it is. When seen in context of Hellenistic Jahvism (again in lack of better term) and the biblical strife between JHVH and Baal.

In short, it looks like she was used as a patsy.

You can't practice witchcraft, magic, summon demons and practice blood sacrifice in YHWH's country without attracting some negative attention.

In effect of being high priestess of Asherah they held sacrificial feasts, and if I'm not mistaken it is very similar to the Eucharist. If not identical. And to the old dictineers anything connected to Baal or Asherah was devilish and witchcraft. Bias from root to crown.

The Greek word translated witchcraft or sorcery in Revelation, is "pharmakos". That's another word for Aspirin and Chemo Therapy mind you. Wicked stuff.

She was given space to repent and thought the mark of protection she received as a descendent of Cain couldn't be pierced by the one who gave it.

Now, there you go, don't you? Please cite your sources, descendant of Cain, not all descendants of Cain carry the mark, only the firstborns in a straight line, the sons of God mind you. Are you saying she carried the bindi of the Bene Elohim? Preposterous!

Similarly, Job thought he was above punishment when he counseled Pharaoh to kill Hebrew babies in Egypt.

I'd love to hear your explanation for that one. Are you refering to some Urantia text or some other neo-redactionist (as usual in lack of better term) "liber recepticus"? Job lived in Syria or Jordan or somewhere, when was he ever in Egypt? Are you saying Job lived in the time of Moses? Then I can inform you that Job is far older than the Torah. Some say it pre-dates just about anything written in Hebrew.

Very few of them learned what David had learned about YHWH's forgiveness. The moral is if your don't want to end up as dog food be a person people can respect. Love God and your Neighbors and if they give you any reason to love them do it anyway because you might need them on a rainy day.

It all boils down to politics and religious preference. Religion is a tool. The people who believe in the crap are the ones it has been designed to kill and control. Religion is slavery, the believer is the slave. The king and the priest, in this case Ahab and Jezebel, but it could just as well have been David and that lady bathing on the roof, whasshername-- could never live safely without these religious constructs to calm down and toilet-train their subjects. You don't need religion to get to heaven, you need science. We are in heaven. Earth is a planet just like Venus and Mars, only apparently better suited for sustaining life.

John the Baptist according to YAHshuWAH was Elijah though he didn't know it. John the Baptist lost his head because there is a God who judges all and does so fairly. He has dominion over all both light and dark. If you don't want your head cut you shouldn't cut heads. We answer for all our actions though there is usually space to repent. Jezebel was given that space. King of Tyre literally described as the Devil in scripture. She being an O- and the daughter of King Tyre was most certainly a daughter of Cain.

As was Solomon who had authority over the demons. It's a bloodline thing and we have been blending here for thousands of years. Point is that Ahab was an AB+ which would have eventually put YAHqob's Kingdom in the hands of a O+. This would have been unacceptable in any Kingdom as they are to be servants (O+ Canaan) of Servants (O- Ham/Cain). She caused a lot of trouble and reaped her rewards. On the day she was thrown out of the window she was painting her face and loving every minute of her drama. Let it go and do good.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

a reply to: TheoFieldsGardener

Ah, the thunders of history's rolling heads. Terribly noisy. Keeping busy? John the baptist's life turned out the way it did because of utter decadence. The same kind of decadence that Jezebel supposedly displayed as she had the prophets of Jahveh slaughtered. Or when king David sent Uriah to his post. The same decadence visible in Guy Fawkes' Night or burning witch effigies at Midsummer or some aspiring politician "taking Care of things" in the Bohemian Grove. Polo was developed from clubbing head chops around. I mean. The nazis made lamps and sofas out of skins of elaborately tattooed Jews. Jesus is commemorated by the Roman cross that nearly bloody killed him. No wonder he has made them commemorate him by drinking his blood and eating his flesh as well. It kinda shows them what they are. «Braaaaain!» «Braaaain!»

John was a voice crying out in the wilderness who Baptized and healed in the name of YHWH. He wore camels hair and ate honey locust beans, hardly decadent. YAHshuWAH never commemorated a cross nor did his Father. If they had a symbol if would be a Menorah which was used in the Temple in Heaven to divide the Congregations (Blood Types). Each assembly has an angel over it.

By the fact John had an obvious mark of Protection, He ate beans instead of bread and he was a vegan Essene we could assume he and Jezebaal were the same blood type yet one loves YAHshuWAH and his people and the other was trying to proselyte them away from their master. It will happen again though it will be on a world scale.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: TheoFieldsGardener
John was a voice crying out in the wilderness who Baptized and healed in the name of YHWH. He wore camels hair and ate honey locust beans, hardly decadent.

Well, I wasn't talking of the holy diver, he hardly cut his own head off and served it on a platter in front of everybody while stripping butt naked in front of the whole court, now, did he?

He did his job. You will do yours and I will do mine. That is all we can do.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Unfair? If in my house someone comes and tries to separate my children from me/kill them. I would throw him out immediately and probably shoot him if i had a gun.
What kind of a father would not protect his children?

Seeing this royal couple killed almost all of his prophets, and tried to seduce his people away. (which is spiritually murdering them!)

"Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols." Revelation 2:20

Good for you is this your first post ever. Just wondering. That's what your box says.
a reply to: YahweisLord

a reply to: TheoFieldsGardener

My first post yes, but i'm lurking around here since 2008.

Wow can I know more about you.

a reply to: YahweisLord

a reply to: YahweisLord

Unless you realised, the point made in the OP is that Elijah killed at least as many prophets as did Jezebel. It turned into a blood feud that still stirs up the pond. And what's with the children? Abraham killed Isaac. And according to the «Holy See» the «Holy Father» killed his «Holy Son»? The God supposedly killing children and sacrificing sons here is Moloch, and at some point in Biblical history, Moloch merged together with El and a few others and became JHVH or Jahveh, designed to be the God to re-conquer Canaan.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The prophets of baal were probably more then the prophets of YHWH so he may have given order to kill many more then Jezebel has. But thats not the point;
They gathered on mount Carmel to prove once and for all who served the true God and who not; 450 prophets of baal+400 prophets of astarte and his religion sponsered by the king and queen. Or YHWH and his sole prophet at that time/place. the mosaic law proscribed that false prophets should be killed.
The law the israelites still followed even if they never fully followed it.

Deuteronomy 18:20
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

So should YHWH have not responded his servant, Elijah probably would've been killed.
The prophets of baal/astarte probably knew what would happen if their god didnt respond.


-Abraham did not kill Isaac; in fact God send a replacement(a ram no child) which prefigured his own sacrifice

-Jesus said himself:
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

He chose himself to lay down his life and up until the very end he had the possibility to not do so.