Russian Courts Find 99% guilty

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
Corporations that sponsor the government make on prisons. Are you denying a privately owned prison system in the US?

The claim was made that governments put people in jail to make money. I posted saying no government in the world makes money from putting people in jail. I also added that because a corporation runs a jail and makes money doesn't count because the corporation has no influence in the justice system. I EVEN QUOTED THE SIZE OF THE US PRIVATE PRISON SYSTEM. Why would you feel the need to ask if I deny a private prison system in the US?

a reply to: noeltrotsky

I also added that because a corporation runs a jail and makes money doesn't count because the corporation has no influence in the justice system

Is that right?

The "kids for cash" scandal unfolded in 2008 over judicial kickbacks at the Luzerne CountyCourt of Common Pleas in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. Two judges, President JudgeMark Ciavarella and Senior Judge Michael Conahan, were accused of accepting money from Robert Mericle, builder of two private, for-profit juvenile facilities, in return for contracting with the facilities and imposing harsh sentences on juveniles brought before their courts to increase the number of inmates in the detention centers.

FAIL

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
a reply to: noeltrotsky

I also added that because a corporation runs a jail and makes money doesn't count because the corporation has no influence in the justice system

Is that right?

The "kids for cash" scandal unfolded in 2008 over judicial kickbacks at the Luzerne CountyCourt of Common Pleas in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. Two judges, President JudgeMark Ciavarella and Senior Judge Michael Conahan, were accused of accepting money from Robert Mericle, builder of two private, for-profit juvenile facilities, in return for contracting with the facilities and imposing harsh sentences on juveniles brought before their courts to increase the number of inmates in the detention centers.

FAIL

The claim was GOVERNMENT was putting people in jail for profit. Your link to a couple of corrupt judges does NOT PROVIDE EVIDENCE that, again for the hard of reading, a GOVERNMENT is making money off sending people to jail.

You see why I say you guys sit back and twist everything to fit what you are saying? This is what you do. It's a joke really...except it ruins threads and stops people from discussing anything because they don't want to face this constant attacking.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
a reply to: noeltrotsky

I also added that because a corporation runs a jail and makes money doesn't count because the corporation has no influence in the justice system

Is that right?

The "kids for cash" scandal unfolded in 2008 over judicial kickbacks at the Luzerne CountyCourt of Common Pleas in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. Two judges, President JudgeMark Ciavarella and Senior Judge Michael Conahan, were accused of accepting money from Robert Mericle, builder of two private, for-profit juvenile facilities, in return for contracting with the facilities and imposing harsh sentences on juveniles brought before their courts to increase the number of inmates in the detention centers.

FAIL

The claim was GOVERNMENT was putting people in jail for profit. Your link to a couple of corrupt judges does NOT PROVIDE EVIDENCE that, again for the hard of reading, a GOVERNMENT is making money off sending people to jail.

You see why I say you guys sit back and twist everything to fit what you are saying? This is what you do. It's a joke really...except it ruins threads and stops people from discussing anything because they don't want to face this constant attacking.

Prisoners are for sale in the USA and members of the justice system have profited from them as well. Deal with it.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: superman2012
Just because YOU don't know of any country, doesn't mean it isn't so. Try google, it'll help you out. lol

linky poo for you

Your link provides no evidence of any country in the world making money from putting people in prison. Fail

Can't force you to read, so you are right, I have failed you.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
Prisoners are for sale in the USA and members of the justice system have profited from them as well. Deal with it.

Of course after being shown that you failed to prove your point you shift away to something else. Of course there is corruption in the US justice system. Amazingly enough it gets caught and punished sometimes.

Still haven't seen any evidence of a government profiting from sending people to jail...

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: superman2012
Also, incarcerated difference between US and Russia is huge, when you look at the US's 97% conviction rate...but you didn't know that did you.

Feeling exposed? lol

Of course your stats are WRONG. The US Federal system has a 93% conviction rate in criminal cases.
"Of the 87,709 defendants terminated during Fiscal Year
2012, 80,963, or 93 percent, either pled guilty or were
found guilty. See Table 3. The rate of conviction
remained over 90 percent, as it has since Fiscal Year 2001."

www.justice.gov...
Page 8, second to last bullet point

The 97% you quote might be the number of defendants that plead guilty without a trial, last bullet point same page...but I don't know, it's your wrong number so only you know where it comes from.

Numbers are still higher than Russia...just saying. Doesn't matter if it's 97% or 93% (depending on what year you look at).

originally posted by: superman2012
Can't force you to read, so you are right, I have failed you.

I read your link, there was nothing in it saying that governments profit from jailing people. Quote the words from the article that you feel support your claim.

originally posted by: superman2012
Numbers are still higher than Russia...just saying. Doesn't matter if it's 97% or 93% (depending on what year you look at).

The Russian conviction rate is 99%, much higher than 93%. You should read the thread from the beginning. Not a surprise that your wrong again after being wrong about the 97% you quoted without any source of course. And it doesn't matter what year you look at...the US has NEVER has a 97% conviction rate.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: superman2012
Numbers are still higher than Russia...just saying. Doesn't matter if it's 97% or 93% (depending on what year you look at).

The Russian conviction rate is 99%, much higher than 93%. You should read the thread from the beginning. Not a surprise that your wrong again after being wrong about the 97% you quoted without any source of course.

While we are both capable of realizing 99 is bigger than 93 or 97, the number of people incarcerated are MUCH higher in the US.
Here is your link. Anything else you need me to Google?
From above link.

For 2012, the US Department of Justice reported a 97% conviction rate.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: superman2012
Can't force you to read, so you are right, I have failed you.

I read your link, there was nothing in it saying that governments profit from jailing people. Quote the words from the article that you feel support your claim.

*sigh*
From the link:

According to the Left Business Observer, the federal prison industry produces 100% of all military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet-proof vests, ID tags, shirts, pants, tents, bags, and canteens. Along with war supplies, prison workers supply 98% of the entire market for equipment assembly services; 93% of paints and paintbrushes; 92% of stove assembly; 46% of body armor; 36% of home appliances; 30% of headphones/microphones/speakers; and 21% of office furniture. Airplane parts, medical supplies, and much more: prisoners are even raising seeing-eye dogs for blind people.

All of their workers are full-time, and never arrive late or are absent because of family problems; moreover, if they don’t like the pay of 25 cents an hour and refuse to work, they are locked up in isolation cells.

Couple those two quotes with common sense and it isn't even a small step to get to this:
Economics of American Prison System
If

Today, privatized prisons make up over 10% of the corrections market—turning over $7.4 billion per year.

and they pay more to the inmates and more to the guards while having newer buildings, then we can see that it shouldn't be hard to see that the government, who pays less to the inmates and has old facilities, can make the same, if not more money.

I showed you mine, show me yours.

originally posted by: superman2012
Here is your link. Anything else you need me to Google?
From above link.

For 2012, the US Department of Justice reported a 97% conviction rate.

That's the link I posted, on on page 8 the last two bullet points clearly define the conviction rate in the US.

Where do you get your quote from in that report?

originally posted by: superman2012

Today, privatized prisons make up over 10% of the corrections market—turning over $7.4 billion per year.

and they pay more to the inmates and more to the guards while having newer buildings, then we can see that it shouldn't be hard to see that the government, who pays less to the inmates and has old facilities, can make the same, if not more money.

I showed you mine, show me yours.

The 7.4 billion you quote is the total costs government gives the private prison industry. It is not, in any way, a number that relates to how much money the government gets from putting people in prison.

"The American prison system is massive. So massive that its estimated turnover of $74 billion ..."
www.smartasset.com...

Show me how the government makes MORE than 74 Billion dollars from prisoners and I'll believe you that the government is throwing people in jail to make money.

a reply to: noeltrotsky
I have to concede that I cannot find any sort of source that says how much the government makes per prisoner, before or after cost of incarceration. I also cannot find how much the government is saving by my previous quote:

According to the Left Business Observer, the federal prison industry produces 100% of all military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet-proof vests, ID tags, shirts, pants, tents, bags, and canteens. Along with war supplies, prison workers supply 98% of the entire market for equipment assembly services; 93% of paints and paintbrushes; 92% of stove assembly; 46% of body armor; 36% of home appliances; 30% of headphones/microphones/speakers; and 21% of office furniture. Airplane parts, medical supplies, and much more: prisoners are even raising seeing-eye dogs for blind people.

If the prisoners are producing all this, wouldn't that be the same as making money off of the prisoners? Just a question as, stated earlier, I cannot find a single factoid about this. That alone makes me wonder.
Thanks for making me learn!

a reply to: noeltrotsky


I am sure Putin could wipe all this corruption out with little pinky while wrestling a bear blindfolded. This is how propaganda artists like to portray dear leader. Truth be told unless you are part of the elite in Russia you are pretty much screwed. And yes for the record Russia is not the only country being ruled by a Oligarchy.



I have to ask these propaganda artists why? Why is everything always about Putin he is just one man. It seems Putin is trying to make people think Russia is Fascist. When you keep making about one leader this is the vibe given off.

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: noeltrotsky
I have to ask these propaganda artists why? Why is everything always about Putin he is just one man. It seems Putin is trying to make people think Russia is Fascist. When you keep making about one leader this is the vibe given off.

There is lots of evidence to show Putin makes the final decisions. Pretty much every Russian official thinks that and you could read quotes all day from them.

I wouldn't call the Russian system Fascist...yet anyway. I thought of it as an Oligarchy until Putin started taking them down. Now I see it as a straight Dictatorship under Putin. With the recent turn against international norms by annexing part of Ukraine and sawing off a large portion via seperatists Russia is no doubt heading towards Fascism. In large part because the government is using nationalism to justify it's actions.