cutting down rainforests actually changes the weather and potentially causes climate change

austhrutime.com...

I put this info up in another thread but decided it was worthy of a thread of its own...

My neighbor whom is into permaculture was telling me about this and i find it fascinating,he sourced the info from a book named "permaculture a designers' manual" written by Bill Mollison...

Here are a few snippets from the link i provided above....

Aerobacter bacteria are released into the atmosphere from the leaves of trees during transpiration. It has been found that these bacteria are responsible for the rain formed by the air rising from rainforests, the bacterial cells forming the nuclei around which raindrops form. It has been known for many years that forests, in particular rainforests, alter the climate downwind from them, now Dr Mary White said the sustainable science team, based in Canberra, found that the bacteria are very important in the process of rain formation. The bacteria are released by all broad-leafed plants, but rainforests are much more efficient emitters than other vegetation types. The clouds formed by the condensation around the bacterial particles don't just increase the amount of rain, but contribute greatly to the albedo of the planet, the amount of sunlight, and hence heat, that is reflected back into space, and keeping the temperatures of the earth comfortable.

as explained not only does this bacteria affect rainfall,it affects sunlight and heat....so that goes a long way to explainwhy the now desert areas are so dry,after the trees were cut down the mechanism that helps to produce rain was taken away....

It has been known for some time that it is necessary to reduce the amount of carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxides in the atmosphere to try to halt continuing global warming. It is also known that the reduction of greenhouse gases alone is not sufficient to keep the temperatures down, a number of other factors influence the climate - cloud cover, by reflecting solar radiation (heat) back into space, the albedo of land and water surfaces. Again, the reflectance of radiation, the transfer of heat to the upper atmosphere from the surface of the Earth, via evaporation and/or transpiration of water from foliage, in that it governs the amount of heat, that is not trapped by greenhouse gases, that is re-radiated to space. And finally the levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. These gases include water vapour, that accounts for 60 %, carbon dioxide 20 %, methane and nitrous oxide combined account for 20 %.

In past episodes of global warming, when it could only have been the result of natural processes, there were vast areas of forest and expanses of ocean containing algae that could eventually help bring the temperatures back to the sort of levels preferred by humans. This is no longer the case. Most of the rainforest of the Earth, and probably even more of the non-rainforest broad-leafed vegetation, has been removed for various reasons. This has now been shown to have potentially a much greater effect than previously believed, before the role of bacteria released from foliage in cloud formation was known. It has previously been found that rainfall over areas of rainforest was higher than over other areas, and it was not always the result of high ground (orographic effect). In Western Australia it can been seen that natural woodland areas tend to have more rain than areas cleared for agriculture. These drier agricultural areas are often closer to the coast were the air tends to be more humid than further inland, so would previously have received more rainfall.

Now this article does not conclusively prove that global warming is a man made issue but certainly illustrates a point that removal of trees has an effect on our climate,and quite a large impact at that....but should at least motivate people into planting more trees,if i had my way i would make the first day of spring "world tree planting day" where everyone in the world plants at least one tree,just one tree can cause positive change for the environment,imagine if we planted 7 billion each year

More sources of info for those that are interested.....
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
blog.cifor.org...

as i am searching for more info i amazed how little info there is on this subject it has been known about for decades ....

I've done my part. Planting things is good.
One of my best friends is an old oak tree. I speak to it the same way I would anything else.
She likes the haircut I gave.

Not only the rainforest though. Although the rainforest does contribute more than northern or southern forests, it is just a small part of the deforestation that has happened over the last three hundred years. Funny that science won't go back farther when evaluating this, maybe they are afraid of what will be found out.

When the settlers came to this country from Europe, it was a lot nicer place and the trees were huge. The weather was much different, it didn't have the diversity as bad. I got this from studying interpretations of old history and watching documentaries on tv, I guess we destroyed pretty much of a paradise in many locations when we came here.

Well, no matter what actually causes the average global temperature to rise, if you look at a chart detailing the advances and retreats of civilization over the past 5,000 years or so, civilization seems to do better when the temperature is a little warmer than when it is a little colder.

The temperature is not going to hold steady, either way. It's naturally (or unnaturally) going to rise and fall. But a review of history indicates that humanity thrives during an upswing and run into big trouble during a downswing.

a reply to: rickymouse

Well, there are some studies out there that goes a little deeper when it comes to deforestation and urbanization, though it does say it's not well documented how big an impact it has on climate.

Here is one i have posted many times which tend to get ignored, it's old but very educational.

The Effect of Localized Man-Made Heat and Moisture Sources in Mesoscale Weather Modification

Human interference had altered the surface of the earth long before the present era (Thomas, 1956). The first major change started about 7000 years ago when man developed agriculture. This led to systematic changing of forested areas to fields and pastures. Other reasons for deforestation were the needs for structural timber and lumber. In recent times, paper requirements have led to large-scale reductions of forests. Only gradually is a systematic harvesting and replacement policy taking over.
Agriculture and lumbering have undoubtedly led to mesoscale climatic changes, but these are poorly documented, although one can make some approximate guesses at their magnitude. In many instances secondary changes have been more far-reaching. After the clearing, wind and water erosion have washed or blown the top soil away. Bare rock has become exposed, and now far more extreme temperatures and lower humidities prevail where once the even-tempered mesoclimate of the forest dominated. Stretches of Anatolia, the Spanish plateau, and some slopes of the Italian Apennines are silent witnesses to this development.
But by far the most alarming development has been the substitution of rocklike, well-compacted, impermeable surfaces for vegetated soil, a development that is the natural consequence of urbanization. Square kilometer after square kilometer has yielded to the bulldozer and has been converted to buildings, highways, and parking lots. Reservoirs and irrigation also have become important.

originally posted by: skunkape23
I've done my part. Planting things is good.
One of my best friends is an old oak tree. I speak to it the same way I would anything else.
She likes the haircut I gave.

is she pretty and what is her name ?

a reply to: rickymouse

maybe they are afraid of what will be found out.

if i was a betting man i would say yes....

I guess we destroyed pretty much of a paradise in many locations when we came here.

i have no doubt we have destroyed paradise....we are taught to believe in heaven and hell,my belief is that we could have heaven here on earth if we followed natures rule...instead we destroy it and we are creating hell.....this earth could be a paradise for everyone....

i intend to transform as many properties as i can into permaculture food forests which are self generating...hopefully the trend takes off

Heck! Now I have to change my opinions on climate change again!

A few years after moving to West Michigan from the Detroit area, I began researching tallgrass prairies as there were actually many prairie and "barrens" type ecosystems here before settlement. From the carbon sequestering aspects, a grassland can absorb just about the same amount of carbon as a woodland. So deforestation and fires didn't seem like such a bad thing, at least in those areas that had been prairies historically, it was beneficial.

But now, according to this study, trees are apparently extremely important in rain formation.

Well, this information has made it clear to me that nature's complex web is far more intertwined than just the carbon cycle or water cycle, or what ever point of view you are coming from. The butterfly effect must be taken seriously, at the very least the near infinite complexity must be keep in mind when talking about anything in nature.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

The butterfly effect must be taken seriously, at the very least the near infinite complexity must be keep in mind when talking about anything in nature.

great observation ...we always hear about how everything is interconnected this is just another example of the complexity of nature and how every part has its role to play

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

I planted potatoe peels in the woods here. They come up for about three or four years then die off. They have taken over the garden though, that is because I till that and it has seed in it. I tried to put them under the pine trees in the wood and they do work, they grow in the humus created over hundreds of years. But they still die off.

Maybe if I got some wild unaltered potatoes to plant, they would do better. I have one bunch of potatoes I have been working with for four years now, they product about five small potatoes to a plant with no work other than originally planting them. They seem to live symbiotically with the trees too, that was something I made sure of. They seem compatible. They are from some Mountain potatoes which originally grew big potatoes. I like the small ones best boiled with skins on.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

You need a combination of things for an ecosystem to work best. Some clearings and some forests. A forest is not ten acres of land, it is thousands of acres. You also need plots of trees to break the wind and cause some turbulance to cause it to rain. I have been in many states and seen many fields with little areas of trees except apple orchards by the house. Now, this has gotten excessive, they are messing things up.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: skunkape23
I've done my part. Planting things is good.
One of my best friends is an old oak tree. I speak to it the same way I would anything else.
She likes the haircut I gave.

is she pretty and what is her name ?

She is gorgeous. Her name is "the tree."

a reply to: rickymouse

they grow in the humus created over hundreds of years. But they still die off.

i wonder if that is because of the high acid content of the pine needles ?

Maybe if I got some wild unaltered potatoes to plant, they would do better. I have one bunch of potatoes I have been working with for four years now, they product about five small potatoes to a plant with no work other than originally planting them. They seem to live symbiotically with the trees too, that was something I made sure of. They seem compatible. They are from some Mountain potatoes which originally grew big potatoes. I like the small ones best boiled with skins on.

theoretically you should be able to grow anything on the forest floor as it pretty much the perfect environment with all the organic matter there(assuming there is enough light filtering through)...either way sounds like you have a good setup where you are

i love those little potatoes there are great,i would have them growing here if i didn't have to move

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

You need a combination of things for an ecosystem to work best. Some clearings and some forests. A forest is not ten acres of land, it is thousands of acres. You also need plots of trees to break the wind and cause some turbulance to cause it to rain. I have been in many states and seen many fields with little areas of trees except apple orchards by the house. Now, this has gotten excessive, they are messing things up.

Totally agree with you. It becomes very apparent when looking at the Natural Features Inventory Map of Michigan (a pre-settlement reconstruction of our State's natural features). We had an incredibly diverse state before we "civilized it".

lol umm well duhhh... I don't understand why this needs to be pointed out to people....

originally posted by: Blue Shift
Well, no matter what actually causes the average global temperature to rise, if you look at a chart detailing the advances and retreats of civilization over the past 5,000 years or so, civilization seems to do better when the temperature is a little warmer than when it is a little colder.

This is true.

However it does much worse when there are extremes of drought and flood - and guess what one of the main impacts of deforestation is?

www.sciencedaily.com...

Well, if we stopped treating Earth's oceans like a toilet/garbage dump ...

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Well, if we stopped treating Earth's oceans like a toilet/garbage dump ...

apparently that is the best solution those that run the show could come up with

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Well, if we stopped treating Earth's oceans like a toilet/garbage dump ...

Unfortunately, we haven't perfected poop rockets yet.

This is a coincidence because I have been wanting to post for a while about my theory that areas with severe, damaging weather, such as monsoons, might be because of ancient human environmental destruction.

If you look at places like India and Bangladesh that have tons of people and harsh, dramatic weather patterns you have to wonder if the terrible climate they have was caused by their ancestors cutting down trees and changing the environment.