Anybody remember the DHS ordering 1.6 billion or so rounds of ammunition ( hollow point) back in Feb

Hey FEMA Camp deniers, I have a 2016 Voters Guide to sell you.

a reply to: wastedown

rounds that tumble cause nightmares for surgeons also, because they can leave a 5 foot long path of destruction through the body. so do IEDs, VBIEDs, mortars, and really any other kind of wound. Law enforcement is permitted to use them because there is a REDUCED (not eliminated, reduced) risk of over-penetration of the target and hitting bystanders. it has nothing to do with one type of round being "more deadly" than they other. A 9 mm ball round to the heart will likely kill you and keep on trucking into whatever is behind you; a 9 mm hollow point to the heart will likely kill you and stop.

and really, if you're going to try to use things to beef up your argument, check your facts first: it's actually NOT against the laws of land warfare, Hague conventions, or Geneva conventions to shoot paratroopers. it's against the Geneva Convention to make a PILOT who is parachuting from an disabled aircraft the object of your attack. it even explicitly says that paratroopers are NOT covered by this article.

what's silly is trying to pontificate about things when you don't actually know what you're talking about.

I know the government thinks they are being open by putting goverment contracts online for the public to view. However what they did not count on is how completely clueless the public is when it comes understanding the contracts and how governement contracts work. Ends up doing more harm than good. At least this urban legend at least has some basis in fact, juat a confused and perverted views of that fact. The FEMA camp thing, which is older than the interenet is one of the old school urban legends that require not starting facts. That it persists to this day without a single thing to back it up is amazing. Then again some people still think the Earth is flat so what can you do?

i think the US will try and cover its tracks with anything, the amount of missing money is just staggering.

astonishing ammo piles are just one of the ways the gov trys to cover its ass, they know we are all paying attention, billion on bullets? who the hell needs a billion dollars of bullets, did they even fire that many in iraq?! its just another gov cover for missing money

a reply to: Shamrock6

I believe I did say something about that long path of injury you just tried to chastise me with, while saying that it is a silly argument to have over either view point. You seem to have missed my question... Why are hollow point rounds outlawed in combat if they are no different?

My Drill Instructors taught us that it is illegal to shoot a pilot escaping his crashing plane, and plain dishonorable anyway. You simply don't shoot a man who can't defend himself. Now if he is shooting at you, is a totally different thing. It was more than 20 years ago but I took that as "the legal and honorable thing to do is not shoot a man parachuting". Period. I don't care if wikipedia says it's ok. There is no honor there at all.

I had not thought about passing through being a problem in the street, and can appreciate that point. It doesn't justify a man being shot 39 times, and it doesn't stop those hollow points from hitting bystanders when cops are shooting 400+ rounds into a car containing known hostages. It doesn't explain why DHS or any Dept. would authorize sending 1000 hollow point rounds down range in training that would be cheaper and no less effective using ball ammo. Which was shown earlier in this thread to be an excuse used to justify needing such large amounts of hollow point ammo. Swing at me or try to belittle me all you want, it won't change my outlook. Our police forces are way to over powered and trigger happy, and it is making a lot of citizens nervous. We have the right, and the duty to question our government's actions, and hold them accountable for their misdeeds.

a reply to: wastedown

I have no idea why they're outlawed. You'd have to go ask the guys who outlawed expanding ammo back at the beginning of the 19th century.

My reading comprehension is just fine. I have no idea why your Drill Instructors would tell you not to shoot paratroopers, who are completely different than pilots bailing out of an aircraft. I've never once had any sort of instructor in the military tell me to wait for the enemy to get good and ready to fight before you engage him. By gosh you let that paratrooper get on the ground, collapse his 'chute, get out of his harness, grab his weapon, and THEN it's okay to shoot him! That's the most ludicrous concept I've ever heard, and I find it very hard to believe any DI would tell his recruits to "fight fair."

Oh, and as for wiki: not all of us need wiki to fact check. And it's in the actual document if you're adverse to taking my word for it.


Nothing that I've said is to justify buying such a huge amount of ammo. I don't dispute that it's vastly more expensive. I didn't at all attempt to justify any of the other instances you cited. My comments have been to clarify ball versus hollow points and to correct erroneous beliefs.

a reply to: wastedown

My Drill Instructors taught us that it is illegal to shoot a pilot escaping his crashing plane, and plain dishonorable anyway. You simply don't shoot a man who can't defend himself. Now if he is shooting at you, is a totally different thing. It was more than 20 years ago but I took that as "the legal and honorable thing to do is not shoot a man parachuting".

An ejecting pilot is unarmed, a paratrooper has a rifle. Two different circumstances and rules of engagement. It's illegal to shoot an ejecting pilot, not a paratrooper.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
It's illegal to shoot an ejecting pilot, not a paratrooper.

Your source for that claim is what?

I could provide many links, you tube videos of actual footage of FEMA camps etc.. but some will choose to stay ignorant to their existence. You see the whole problem is they're hidden in plain sight and anyone who's truly seeing the agenda unfolding in America can see right through the big lies being perpetuated upon the public.
If you elect to stay asleep though, you will fall hook , line and sinker into the lie that these FEMA camps are only there for emergency situations such as massive tornados etc... ( the lie will be they're there to help the public, in crisis etc..)

It's only our interpretations of the reasoning behind why these FEMA camps are there that can differ. Anyone who flat out denies these detention centers exist, is not doing their research period.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
It's illegal to shoot an ejecting pilot, not a paratrooper.

Your source for that claim is what?

It's illegal to shoot an unarmed combatant according to both the Geneva Conventions and the UCMJ.

please read this- www.thecommonsenseshow.com...




In a case of that was then and this is now, there has been a stunning development with regard to the corporate controlled media reporting on FEMA camps. CBS News reported on November 10, 2012, that FEMA camps are in place and being used to house victims of super storm Sandy.

The FEMA shelter camp taped in the accompanying video link is home for victims of Sandy and is located in Oceanport, New Jersey. This camp is taking on the look of permanence as it contains 40 acres of emergency housing and is located in the parking lot of a race track. The camp is complete with hot meals and hot showers. The CBS report interviews a representative of FEMA who sells the camp as a refuge for first responders to the storm and then at the end of the interview, as an afterthought, acknowledges that 200+ storm victims also live there now with more showing up every day.

Reporters are not permitted to enter the FEMA facility amid reports that the “new residents” are reporting that the heating, food and general overall comfort of the camp is not as good as people report. People also report that they are able to see their breath as the temperatures are in the low 30’s.

originally posted by: freedom7
I could provide many links, you tube videos of actual footage of FEMA camps etc.. but some will choose to stay ignorant to their existence. You see the whole problem is they're hidden in plain sight and anyone who's truly seeing the agenda unfolding in America can see right through the big lies being perpetuated upon the public.
If you elect to stay asleep though, you will fall hook , line and sinker into the lie that these FEMA camps are only there for emergency situations such as massive tornados etc... ( the lie will be they're there to help the public, in crisis etc..)

It's only our interpretations of the reasoning behind why these FEMA camps are there that can differ. Anyone who flat out denies these detention centers exist, is not doing their research period.

I drove right over to the alleged FEMA camp in Beech Grove, Indiana about 4 years ago... it's nothing like the video showed and is just a repair depot for Am-track.

Please read this article, for all who deny any truth to the DHS massive purchase of hollow point ammunition


www.huffingtonpost.com...

source-
www.huffingtonpost.com...


The rest of the 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition would be purchased by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the federal government's second largest criminal investigative agency.

ICE's ammunition requests in the last year included:

_450 million rounds of .40-caliber duty ammunition

_40 million rounds of rifle ammunition a year for as many as five years, for a total bullet-buy of 200 million rounds

_176,000 rifle rounds on a separate contract

_25,000 blank rounds

a reply to: Shamrock6

Arrest doesn't mean NEUTRALIZE we are having troubles with that right now,POLICE are only to arrest and wound unless you have no choice to me any gun shooting my way IS NO CHOICE as well,THERE is a reason I chose not to be a cop. TANKS ,artillery,MEH their UNIT security sucks to scouts and they are all vulnerable to homemade thermite. Easy to make and deploy.
Agents the military and Govrnment functionarys have inescappable rules to follow, supplies are easily tracked and disrupted if you know how,not to mention MOST of the other side will join us after the politicians run into hiding.
They can't win it so they will not try. They will use laws to try it ,scaring us with the crazed hordes slautering ALL of our school children.

a reply to: intrptr

I want to know why hollow points for practice? Is their THAT much difference in FLIGHT?

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
It's illegal to shoot an unarmed combatant according to both the Geneva Conventions and the UCMJ.

Pilots are armed with a pistol....

a reply to: cavtrooper7

I want to know why hollow points for practice? Is their THAT much difference in FLIGHT?

A variety of factors affect bullet flight performance.

Recalcitrant (hollow point) projectiles are lighter, so have different recoil than say heavier round nose such as FMJ. Reliability can be a factor as well, some hollow points jam more than others depending on feed ramps when cycling. All of this affects "field vs practice" employment.

Practice with what you are to carry, limiting anomalies from "switching around."

Hey Not urTypical, I wouldn't deny what youre saying and what you saw.

But please tell me. Do you think deep within the FEMA camps there are things the public has no access to that would reveal these detention centers are not what you think?

Do you trust they really do exist to prepare for an insidious agenda of Martial Law?

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Shamrock6

Arrest doesn't mean NEUTRALIZE we are having troubles with that right now,POLICE are only to arrest and wound unless you have no choice to me any gun shooting my way IS NO CHOICE as well,THERE is a reason I chose not to be a cop. TANKS ,artillery,MEH their UNIT security sucks to scouts and they are all vulnerable to homemade thermite. Easy to make and deploy.
Agents the military and Govrnment functionarys have inescappable rules to follow, supplies are easily tracked and disrupted if you know how,not to mention MOST of the other side will join us after the politicians run into hiding.
They can't win it so they will not try. They will use laws to try it ,scaring us with the crazed hordes slautering ALL of our school children.

I have almost no idea what any of that means or how it pertains to anything I've said.

But no, law enforcement is not there "to arrest and wound" people. If somebody engages law enforcement with lethal force and is only wounded, good for them.

And for what it's worth, arresting somebody is also "neutralizing" them.