Kidney Stones (no conspiracy)

That does not sound all that bad, whoe eats potatoes, chocolate and peanut butter as a starter?

a reply to: butcherguy

Distilled water. (basically rain water)

Distilled water is one of the world's best and purest waters! It is excellent for detoxification and fasting programs and for helping clean out all the cells, organs, and fluids of the body because it can help carry away so many harmful substances! Water from chemically-treated public water systems, and even from many wells and springs, is likely to be loaded with poisonous chemicals and toxic trace elements. The water in our homes, offices, schools, hospitals, etc., is likely to be overloaded with zinc (from old fashioned galvanized pipes) or with copper and cadmium (from copper pipes).

Ask yourself these questions: How can I stop the chemicals and inorganic minerals from turning my brain and body into stone? How can I stop my joints from becoming stiff and cemented? How can I help stop the formation of gall, kidney, and bladder stones? How can I keep my arteries, veins and capillaries from this unnatural hardening? How can I prolong youth? How can I delay the onset of premature aging?

www.supremefulvic.com...

a reply to: nonspecific

Here is a more complete list... note further suckiness.

Beer, tea and coffee are beverages that are high in oxalates. Because soy, chocolate and tomatoes are high in oxalates, soy milk, hot chocolate and tomato juice are all high in oxalates, too. A cafe mocha made with soy milk has about 100 mg of oxalates per 100 g serving
A variety of foods in this group are high in oxalates. Grains such as wheat--the germ and the bran--are high in oxalates, as are rye, millet and oats. Starchy foods that are high in calcium oxalate include cornstarch, corn, potatoes and sweet potatoes. Sweet potatoes have about 60 mg of oxalates per 100 g serving.
Peanuts, pinto beans, black beans and soybeans are high in oxalates. So are products derived from these foods, such as peanut butter, refried pinto beans, and tofu, which is a fermented product of soybeans. Soy-based veggie burgers contain about 800 mg of oxalates per 100 g serving, while tofu contains about 200 mg of oxalates per 100 g serving, and peanuts contain about 180 mg of oxalates per 100 g serving.
Most nuts and many types of seeds are high in oxalates. This includes tree nuts such as almonds, walnuts, cashews and pecans, which contain about 200 mg of oxalates per 100 g serving. Sunflower and sesame seeds are examples of seeds that are known for their oxalate content; sesame seeds have about 100 mg per 100 g serving.
High oxalate fruits include rhubarb, figs, blueberries, blackberries, raspberries, kiwifruit, grapes and limes. In addition, citrus fruit peel such as lemon peel is high in oxalates. Because oxalates are resistant to cooking, products derived from citrus peel, such as orange marmalade, maintain their oxalate content. Rhubarb contains about 700 mg of oxalates per 100 g serving.
Vegetables that are moderate or high in oxalates include endives, asparagus, eggplant, brussels sprouts, cucumbers, celery and beets. Also, most leafy green vegetables such as chard or beet greens are quite high in oxalate. As an example, raw spinach contains about 750 mg of oxalates per 100 g serving.

Livestrong.com

Please do not take my poor attempt at humour as offence, it was not intened that way.

a reply to: butcherguy

I've had kidney stones on and off for the last few years. They HURT like hell and I wouldn't wish that pain on my worst enemy. Kidney stones sound so deceptive. You have a mental image of a little round river rock-how bad can THAT hurt? The truth is, a kidney stone is a jagged little piece of material the texture of a bristle scrub brush and you bet is hurts.

Some of the things that have worked for me:

Drink lots of plain water, not pop, and STAY AWAY from brown colas. There's something in the coloring that contributes to the formation of kidney stones. I used to just love my diet pepsi, but now I only have a couple of sips once in a great while.

Stay away from peanuts. They also contain something that contributes to the formation of kidney stones.

THere's nothing to back this up, but sometimes the roast beef at Arby's can set me off. Our nearest store used to have a 5 for $5 deal on the weekends, so I'd get some every weekend. When we finally got tired of Arby's, I noticed that I had fewer incidents of kidney stones. I don't know if it something used to prepare the meat, but for me, there's a tie-in.

The old folk remedy of cranberry juice was supposedly discredited in a study, but I remember as a kid that if mom or any of her friends had any kind of urinary tract issue, they drank cranberry juice and it helped them. Be sure to read the label, you want a juice that is 30% or more CRANBERRY juice, not a juice cocktail. It's worked for me.

SInce I've been following the advice above, I've had a huge decrease in both pain intensity and number of attacks. I still feel the pain in my back and the "traveling pain" as they move through. I just keep hydrating and take some ibuprofen (advil) and I've been OK.

AND14263, you're in my thoughts. I wish you well and hope this helps.

Yup, sounds like stones. It's good you are going to the doctor with that. They can give you something to help dissolve them.

I tried studying the chemistry needed to dissolve them but the location of this may make it more difficult.

I'm back from the doctor's. She has booked me in for a scan and given me some Dicloflex for the kidney pain. Hopefully the scan will happen quick because in the meantime she said I may pee these babies out. Might be something to do with her being a woman but she did say that it might not be as bad as child birth... although she was probably just reassuring me!

I will add I got ZERO sympathy from my Mrs up until it was obvious I had the stones. I guess she is used to me moaning about sh**!

a reply to: Cheddarhead
Thanks for the advise and good wishes! It's always better to hear this stuff from people who've had the same problems.

a reply to: butcherguy
So when I've been eating huge bars of milk chocolate dipped in peanut butter... that was bad? I know, I know... I spent a full two years avoiding sugar but have lapsed this past few months.

As for the list you post... I love beer... too much. I love cooking Chinese with sesame products and soy beans and I have been substituting sweet potatoes for normal potatoes for a while. I guess I really need to rethink my diet! Probably a good think.

a reply to: One_Love_One_GOD
I can get distilled water... I'll try this too!!

Thanks team!

originally posted by: nonspecific
Please do not take my poor attempt at humour as offence, it was not intened that way.

a reply to: butcherguy

Oh, I didn't. I got the humor.
But I also wanted you to know what you are possibly in for as far as the diet goes.

PS: I really hope that your stones are not oxalate, that would make for a less restrictive diet. Some stones consist of uric acid crystals.

a reply to: butcherguy

You make it sound like you have to quit everything with this info.

If you put real milk in your coffee, the calcium combines with the oxalates and they are not absorbed. If you boil something for a long time, the oxalates fall apart. High heat for ten minutes, actually perked coffee would be better for us than drip coffee for this.

Milk chocolate contains more calcium so the above applies.

Eat cooked spinach, not raw. Boiling it for about seven to ten minutes to tenderize it causes the oxalates to disipate, also creamed spinach could be better if you do not like to overcook it till it is tender.Spinach dip has sour cream in it. Dips for broccoli and cauliflower should contain sour cream.

We did not pay attention to our ancestors food preparation techniques. We figured there are meds for this. It is always better to not have the pain in my book and have to be taking meds to treat things.

Companion food chemistry is a necessary part of our diet.

a reply to: rickymouse
Thanks for the info.
I will go to Goodwill and look for a percolator coffee pot tonight.... but I will miss having it being ready for me to drink when I come down the stairs in the morning.

So if I make cooked chocolate peanut butter fudge.... the oxalates will 'fall out'? I'm hoping that is so... I miss chocolate and peanut butter.

a reply to: and14263

It really didn't hurt when the biggest stone passed. I just heard a tiny "tink" when it hit the porcelain, but there was a bit of blood.

Hang in there, you'll be fine.

a reply to: butcherguy When calcium binds to oxalates in the gut, they aren't usually absorbed because of some reason. They get pooped out. This is what the info says anyway and it appears to be true most times. If you have a leaky gut, that probably doesn't apply though.

Oxalates are normal in a lot of foods. Potatoes have oxalates, but they also contain calcium. If you make mashed potatoes adding butter and milk, this information should apply to potatoes.

Bread contains plenty of calcium, some bound to the oxalates of the flour. It is only when the oxalates get absorbed that there is a problem. Now if you are deficient in calcium, your body might scavange the calcium from the bound oxalate, freeing up the oxalate to be absorbed. It can do this by creating enzymes. There are always exceptions to everything. Nothing is cut and dry when dealing with the human body. One size does not fit all.

originally posted by: and14263
a reply to: boymonkey74

What if I'm at work when I pass them? I'll just have to scream my b***s off and let people wonder what's going on? lol. Oh I'm laughing now and it really hurts.

Well, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger... hhhmmmmm.

I passed one at work once. Screamed, passed it, passed OUT, woke up, went back to work.

Be careful, though. If you start to feel pressure in your bladder or kidneys, you need to go to the ER, and that is no joke. If it is too big and has clogged passage, you can end up with some VERY serious problems.

Coca Cola won't necessarily cause kidney stones, although I know it can. If memory serves correctly there are 4 common types of Kidney stones and one of them can be caused by cola beverages. I'm not a doctor just basing this off of friends who have gone through the surgeries. Citric Acid and obviously lemon juice help prevent the build up of the deposits. I know it helps with calcium stones, not sure about the others. Luckily most cola beverages if not all contain citric acid, which I suspect helps to some degree. What is worse than cola is Perrier or mineral water in general. When I get the mineral waters I always get lemon/lime flavored. I don't know how significant the citric acid effect is, but I prefer the flavor anyway.

I think one of the other contributing factors is bladder infections. Bacteria can cause your urinary tract to back up and deposits to build up. If you have a high pain tolerance you could probably go weeks or even months with a bladder infection going untreated. I found out I had a severe bladder infection and got tested only because my girlfriend had pain and went to doctor first. I did not get kidney stones to my knowledge, but apparently the bladder/kidney infections are a common cause.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
A tip olive oil and plenty of lemon juice...helps break them down and pass them.

^^ That. As long as the stone is smaller than 4 mm it will help. If it's bigger, the doctor will have to 'go get it' .. with a basket thing that he shoves up in there and pulls it out. Or he'll have to blast it.

Best thing is to go to the hospital/doctor. Get xrays to see the size and where it is. It can get stuck and cause infection.

I passed a 4 mm one back around 2008. Worst pain of my life. It took two days. It started at 1am and I nearly passed out from the pain on the car ride to the hospital.

Good luck. I don't wish kidney stones on anyone ...

Thanks for the support ATS. As a closure (not that any of you care) here's how it ended up...

A week or so before starting this thread I had kidney pains, nothing major. I put it down to the fact that I have an inability to not drink alcohol, daily, lots of it. Too much. So I didn't go to the doctors, I was worried he/she would tell me it was my own fault... in fact I was certain it was my own fault and to stop drinking was the key.

A week or so later I am in utter agony, so instead of going to get it sorted I start this thread. Actually to be fair to myself I had a doctors appointment booked for the afternoon so I wasn't that stupid. After laughing and crying at the replies I ended up at the doctors earlier than the appointment and she told me it was renal colic as a result of a kidney stone or two.

The female doctor laughed at me when I suggested it was going to be more painful than child birth.

She booked me in for an emergency scan because the pain was indeed ridiculous. But because I live in the UK an emergency scan means waiting 2 weeks (welcome to the NHS/Obamacare).

A couple of days later the pain has gone and I do a wee which starts and then stops, no pain but something came out, nothing big.

Rejoice!! I can drink properly over Christmas!!

So the scan rolls round and the doctor sees nothing but tells me this... The original pain I had which I didn't go to the doctors about was probably the stone 'dislodging'. The horrendous pain was the stone passing from kidney to bladder. It's so painful because the uretra is a hard tube which doesn't expand or flex. 2 days it took to get to the bladder.

That's where the pain is... passing from kidney to bladder, not weeing it out!

I have learned from this that it is possible for me to stop drinking. I have also learned that like all stupid humans I had to wait until a scare before I changed my lifestyle. It's Thursday afternoon now, I have only had 2 pints since Sunday, I would usually have had at least 20, maybe more... plus a few bottles of wine. The kidney stones were not caused by booze (the doctor said the booze would flush them out) but the kidney pain was enough for me to make a false correlation and s*** my pants.

a reply to: and14263

And14263-glad everything is going better for you. Reading some of the other threads about how painful passing a kidney stone is couldn't have helped any. Ironically, it's the pop that gets you, not the booze. Just don't get into the bowl of peanuts on the bar!

a reply to: kamagra4uk

The old cure all... 2. Apple Cider Vinegar. Seems ot be a bit of a miracle cure this one.