Illegal Property Tax on Churches

originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: deadeyedick



I'm not sure if you really don't understand posts or simply pretend that you don't. Gathering together and worshipping need not involve ownership of property, hence property taxes are not necessary. Gathering together and worshipping need not involve business, hence business taxes are not necessary. However, when a congregation buys property, it should be taxed on that property and when it functions as a business it should be taxed as a business. I hope this makes my position perfectly clear to everyone else reading this. I hold out no such hope for you.

Yes i understand. You and i basically said the same thing in the last post with the exception that i make for actual churches, parking lots and cemetaries i agree that everything else should be taxed.

There are no laws that say churches have to file a tax return.

When a church does file for the 501c3 they give up many rights from ceaser and God's protection of the church.

That means all the crying on here for churches to be taxed is actually a legal option if they do file a return and that all the crying on here about what they say from the pulpit should be monitered is not wasted breath because if they file they give up their freedom of speech.

Spin it however you want it but GOD will protect houses of worship that do not bow to ceaser.

Do you understand. Of coarse you do. Will you admit it? Of coarse not.

originally posted by: deadeyedick


Do you understand. Of coarse you do. Will you admit it? Of coarse not.

No, I don't think we did say the same thing. I defined churches as congregations not as buildings, not as land, not as other property. If you and 16 fellow believers want to meet in your living room and worship, cool. If you and 16 of your fellow believers want to rent a room where you meet and worship, cool. You could avoid paying property taxes that way. However, the minute the congregation buys property, the congregation (ie. the church) should have to pay property taxes. The minute the congregation (ie. the church) operates as a business, they should have to pay business taxes.

I'm not sure how you're defining "church". Perhaps clarifying that would be ....clarifying.

a reply to: Tangerine

you are not even trying to understand. I said we are much saying the same thing with the exception of what you come back in the next post after that and say no we are not saying the same thing because...

It is comical.

I have been very clear in what i think should be taxed and not taxed.

Quit jumping back and forth and just refer back to one of the post on the previous page where i laid it out multiple times.

If you do not understand it then just reread until you do. If it wwas the case where my post were not clear i would understand but what i said is very clear and you are being willfully ignorrant of my post.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Tangerine

you are not even trying to understand. I said we are much saying the same thing with the exception of what you come back in the next post after that and say no we are not saying the same thing because...

It is comical.

I have been very clear in what i think should be taxed and not taxed.

Quit jumping back and forth and just refer back to one of the post on the previous page where i laid it out multiple times.

If you do not understand it then just reread until you do. If it wwas the case where my post were not clear i would understand but what i said is very clear and you are being willfully ignorrant of my post.

You have not explained how you define church. It makes all the difference. Of course, you won't get that. My hope is that others do.

a reply to: Tangerine
the church definition was clearly defined in the op and several post where i said a local church building was being taxed.

i guess i could go around not paying taxes and say that people are the church and that is what the scotus was meaning when they made all their rulings.

secondary definitions of churches are beside the point here because scotus deemed the term church to mean building and not people.

It's faint, but I think he's assuming angrily that since "anyone" can join a church, somehow "anyone" can now live on tax-free property.
I hate to say it so cliche-like, but if this man just went to a church a few times, I think he'd see a much clearer picture of the situation, & hopefully in the more local sense. It's also strange some posters here seem to convey an attitude about church bodies being somehow lazy, & not "having to work for it". Even though the whole tax thing is technically a moot point now, surely every1 can see the ridiculousness of such a belief? The exemption has nothing to do with religion state-side (at least not in any official capacity with procedural regulation/etc (although i do suspect it's all a govt ruse to take away that churches power in any way. Since taxing them is not possible for them.)) Anyway...

If we momentarily ignore these moot points for the sake of argument, which seems to be the fad, it's can probably be said the only truly non-taxable entity of the entire scope of operation between government church is solely available to the building on the land itself. It seems almost everything else still gets taxed somehow, albeit with many additional tax breaks. Pastors still pay social security and medicaid taxes out of their entire salary. Whether that gets reimbursed or what-not I'm not so sure.

Just go visit a church and you'll see all this for yourself. Take in the culture too. Regardless of what truths you hold dear, you'll see for sure that Christ looks out for these people in spirit. The Bible even says that people who labor in preaching and teaching should be worthy of double-honor (double compensation) and in the same context it says the laborer is worthy of his wages, and also “you shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain”. (one who works for something should be able to benefit from it).
It is true that Paul says in 1 Corinthians he presents the Gospel free of charge, but at the same time is speaking a descriptive truth rather than a prescriptive one, and that it is the full right of the pastor, biblically speaking, to get compensated well for what he is doing.

Bottom line, most Pastors are underpaid, sometimes partially or indeed directly out from the offerings collection, if even they get paid at all. Letting the church building be tax-free IS NO CRIME ON ANYONE, & not an injustice to anyone. Another point for churches are the costs they dish out for things like Funerals & even Weddings partially out of generosity.

I only really wanted to say one thing after coming back to this thread. Anyway, in my defense this topic is surprisingly interesting now that learning is happening!

BTW! this deadeyedick dude is just on fire since I left!
deadeyedick was majestically on point with a lot. I hope to hear more about this Caeser thing you mentioned a few times. Can you expound on what you meant in your post when u brought it up?
Thanks guy!

It's utterly ridiculous to think the govt, is somehow favoring them with unfair advantages. lol ..Some of you need to realize that this non-profit "tax-free" status "obtainment system", was most likely not even created with a single reservation designed for aiding churches. Although it'd be nice if they did for offering spiritual guidance. The fact is they simply fall right into the categories of exemption. For the honest charity work they do, as well as other -you guessed it- non profit work! But it's not the same as how if the US gives foreign aid to another country. The GOVERNMENT takes your tax money (illegally most likely (we all know)). The GOVERNMENT does not do research into where every dollar came from, so to make sure atheists don't accidentally pay a church offering for Jesus. God forbid they get 1 sin forgiven without their consent. lol Describing this as somehow unfair is lunacy. Most all churches in any town are; primary a place of worship yes, but it's secondary function is more often than not, constant CHARITY work. Hence the "exemption status".

The state pretends like it's giving the church something. It has nothing to do with religious beliefs. But since we're on the topic of what's fair, we should be giving churches a LOT more than ONLY tax breaks.

I think ceasers team actually work from the spiritual realm as well as our reality. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Often it can be said that life choices and situations have steered us into a certain frame of mind that we may be bringing forth into the world while often not being aware of it. This is not everyone though. Many are fully aware but it becomes that small factors influence us to see things a certain way.

It is the case here that shortly after our talks here the taxing efforts ended around me. It would be hard to say why but even harder to say how. I think often is the case that without going unchallenged in multiple realms of thought things can grow. I gotta say thanks to all for participating here. One thing they do not like to mention is that inside all of us is the capicity to love and hate. They convince many that only one of the two exist.

The debate is no where near over because both sides seek to stretch the bounds of past agrements and always will but overall you said it well that God looks out for us and if we choose to envoke his hlp is when we can make a difference but we just do not need to start thinking any single issue does not matter much or that it matters most. The battle rages on multiple fronts.