The Place of Origin

The belief that mankind had been visited and taught by Celestial Beings was widespread in ancient times, what i want to do here is highlight in particular the Near Eastern tradition and explain what place of origin was suggested for these Heavenly visitors.

Below we see examples of personal seals from the Hellenistic Period of Uruk of an extended clan that held the right to use the Apkallu symbol as they claimed descent from them, a tradition of Mesopotamia that extended back some 4,000 years even at that time and in origin was probably even much earlier;



The tradition held that once there had been Apkallu that had emerged from the Abzu and had produced offspring that had steadily become more human through interbreeding, the term implies 'the wisdom of the deep' and they were held to emerge from the deep waters of the Abzu under the authority of Enki.

In the classical period they were simply held to be strange creatures that had emerged from the waters of the Persian Gulf, were their cult had been traditionaly strong.

But in Sumerian understanding of the Abzu whilst the principles were enshrined upon Earth and was celebrated in terms of actual waters and wells also had a Celestial counterpart.


It was obvious that the Fish People were understood as coming from the Fish star, which was Formalhaut, from the Arabic Fum al Hut meaning 'mouth of the fish', so they didn't make any secret of relating the Fish people to the fish constellation Piscis Austrinus which is located beneath the constellation Aquarius and indeed below Enki can be seen as Aquarius with his foot upon an unfortunate Apkallu.



So the Sumerians and indeed all Mesopotamians such as the cult of Dagon simply associated the Fish people with the Fish star, and they weren't the only ones, from ancient Jiroft in Iran one can see the constellation represented in conjunction with the Bull as they both contained Royal stars, Formalhaut and Aldebaran, the third and fourth not represented Antares in Scorpio and Regulus in Leo, so the star also has held important position in astrology.



Also from the Dendera zodiac of Egypt we see the star in it's correct relative position to Aquarius which is represented by the God of the inundation Hapi.



The motif of the upright fish was particularly prevalent in Indus Valley illustration and symbolism, often also seen in conjunction with the Bull as at Jiroft, this could have influenced the Mesopotamian rendition of the upright fish people.



Alos one finds in the Indus valley figurines that they began to develop as fish like creatures as well as bird like, there was probably much contemplation as to what those weird visitors actually were, at Sumerian Dilmun they more generally resembled turtles rather than fish.



But anyway the point is that from the ancient traditions it can be readily understood were they considered their visitors and instructors to be from and that was Fomalhaut.

Fomalhaut holds a special significance in extrasolar planet research, as it is the center of the first stellar system with an extrasolar planet candidate (Fomalhaut b) imaged at visible wavelengths. The image was published in Science in November 2008. Fomalhaut is the third brightest star known to have a planetary system), after Pollux and the Sun.

Fomalhaut

a reply to: Kantzveldt

You're unto something mate!

Just my 2 cents:



S&f for the nicely written thread.

We must not forget that the Leviathan (the "Dragon") was actually a sea creature, too:

a reply to: swanne

Nobody has ever figured out before that the Fish people came from the Fish star, though it was previously believed for millenia...

a reply to: Kantzveldt

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Going out on a limb here but hey what the hell this is a conspiracy site right? What if the USS Fomalhaut (in operation during WWII) was being used to meet with beings from Fomalhaut and through those meetings perfected the nuclear bomb? Tidbits of interesting info I found on the USS Fomalhaut: She would make long long voyages down to Australia and New Zealand on a regular basis... Why is that interesting? Think about all that time in open water where no one is watching. The USS Fomalhaut had torpedos fired on them and while other ships sank the USS Fomalhaut sustained no damage. She was decommissioned within 3 years to just 'AK-22'. How many ships do you hear of changing names in that timespan? Kinda odd to me but that is a genuine question because I don't know if that's a super regular thing to do.

Alright this is definitely the most 'conspiracy' out of nowhere thing i've ever posted so I guess I understand if it sounds totally off the wall.

USS Fomalhaut

a reply to: robbystarbuck

I dunno but a bit of an odd name for a warship, as far as ancient America goes though i know the mound culture often used to align monuments toward Fomalhaut;

The Hopewell Road is aligned to the setting of the bright star Fomalhaut as mouth of the Southern Fish, Piscis Austrinus.

Mound culture, Fomalhaut and giants...

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Yep... Lots of ancient history that points to importance. Strange!

Thank you for posting this. I've been finding myself more and more interested in ancient Sumeria for a long time now. It definitely seems to be the source of much of the old world mysteries which lead to commonly held beliefs today.


And btw, to me, I kind of thought the stone carvings looked a bit like the Darwin fish, not so much Loaves and Fishes



-NF

originally posted by: robbystarbuck
a reply to: Kantzveldt

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Going out on a limb here but hey what the hell this is a conspiracy site right? What if the USS Fomalhaut (in operation during WWII) was being used to meet with beings from Fomalhaut and through those meetings perfected the nuclear bomb? Tidbits of interesting info I found on the USS Fomalhaut: She would make long long voyages down to Australia and New Zealand on a regular basis... Why is that interesting? Think about all that time in open water where no one is watching. The USS Fomalhaut had torpedos fired on them and while other ships sank the USS Fomalhaut sustained no damage. She was decommissioned within 3 years to just 'AK-22'. How many ships do you hear of changing names in that timespan? Kinda odd to me but that is a genuine question because I don't know if that's a super regular thing to do.

Alright this is definitely the most 'conspiracy' out of nowhere thing i've ever posted so I guess I understand if it sounds totally off the wall.

USS Fomalhaut

The nuclear bomb was produced by American, British and Canadian scientists.

No " Off World " beings where involved

You remember the fish God of the Dogon called Nommo and how that was supposed to relate to Sirius, i mean how stupid can people get, what has a fish to do with Sirius...?!?








It was a shame they foisted their own interpretation onto Dogon culture because they were correct in their traditions with regards to Digitaria and the Fomalhaut system, never made any sense for Sirius.



a reply to: robbystarbuck

Yes lots and lots and because it can't be dismissed best ignored...strange.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Wasn't Nommo the first one to set the foot on Earth?
He was associated with water, and was supposed to thrive there, hence his comparision to a fish.

Actually the AA believers/proposers (specifically Zecharia Sitchin) consider Sumer to be the first civilization engineered by Annunaki (right after they decided that the "primitive worker" designed to be used as a mining slave was to be granted intelligence and civilization).

a reply to: Jelonek

Yes Nommo was amphibious, the term means 'to make drink' which is the same as the tradition of Piscis Austranis the fish that has the waters of Aquarius poured into it's mouth.

The Nommo are mythological ancestral spirits (sometimes referred to as deities) worshipped by the Dogon tribe of Mali. The word Nommos is derived from a Dogon word meaning "to make one drink." The Nommos are usually described as amphibious, hermaphroditic, fish-like creatures. Folk art depictions of the Nommos show creatures with humanoid upper torsos, legs/feet, and a fish-like lower torso and tail. The Nommos are also referred to as “Masters of the Water”, “the Monitors”, and "the Teachers”. Nommo can be a proper name of an individual, or can refer to the group of spirits as a whole.

Dogon mythology says that Nommo was the first living creature created by the sky god Amma. Shortly after his creation, Nommo underwent a transformation and multiplied into four pairs of twins. One of the twins rebelled against the universal order created by Amma. To restore order to his creation, Amma sacrificed another of the Nommo progeny, whose body was dismembered and scattered throughout the universe

The correspondence with Mesopotamian tradition is striking, were one of the Gods in the Atrahasis myth was sacrificed to create mankind, in terms of greater perspective the spreading of their own DNA around the Universe, but anyway you can lead a fish to water but you can't make it drink, or something like that...

Dogu creatures of the watery abyss

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: robbystarbuck
a reply to: Kantzveldt

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Going out on a limb here but hey what the hell this is a conspiracy site right? What if the USS Fomalhaut (in operation during WWII) was being used to meet with beings from Fomalhaut and through those meetings perfected the nuclear bomb? Tidbits of interesting info I found on the USS Fomalhaut: She would make long long voyages down to Australia and New Zealand on a regular basis... Why is that interesting? Think about all that time in open water where no one is watching. The USS Fomalhaut had torpedos fired on them and while other ships sank the USS Fomalhaut sustained no damage. She was decommissioned within 3 years to jus

t 'AK-22'. How many ships do you hear of changing names in that timespan? Kinda odd to me but that is a genuine question because I don't know if that's a super regular thing to do.

Alright this is definitely the most 'conspiracy' out of nowhere thing i've ever posted so I guess I understand if it sounds totally off the wall.

USS Fomalhaut

The nuclear bomb was produced by American, British and Canadian scientists.

No " Off World " beings where involved

Ahh, long term conditioning at its finest.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Is the return of this fish God, Dagon supposed to bring about the destruction of the earth if not prayed too, like a giant dragon rising from the sea in a biblical scripture or one of my old time favorite Transformer shows with the giant Decepticon ship? And that some how it supposed to relate to Jesus teaching about peace and love not being taught?





Cause if it is....well crap.

originally posted by: Eunuchorn

Ahh, long term conditioning at its finest.

At least it is backed by records and science (Project Manhattan, Enrico Fermi, etc).

Unlike, say, the flat Earth theory.

a reply to: Specimen

Not really, the best evidence for these creatures dates back 7,000 tears, later traditions understood very little about them, though even into the Hellenistic period there were groups in Mesopotamia claiming descent from them.

The evidence suggests they were amphibious and needed protective clothing and helmets on Earth, tradition relating to the Dogu in Japan even suggests they had detachable arm extensions, and all the evidence relates them as teachers of humanity and in no way warlike or hostile, they became much venerated as there were thousands of clay figurines produced representing them as household protective spirits across a huge region.

The best way to think of them is as dolphins in space suits...

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Nice OP as per usual!

I generally shy away from reading too much into the myths of our ancestors and the religious beliefs that centred on the early City States and civilisations. After all, if we decide to attribute veracity to one, why not lend the same credence to all of them? Should we cherry-pick those that appeal to us or just the ones that tessellate with our own perspectives?

Are fish-folk somehow more plausible than those of the contemporaneous Egyptian animal-headed critters?

All that aside, the 'fish' theme catches my attention and particularly your focus on the constellation of Piscis Austrinus. I think you might like this...

P.A. Sturrock PhD of Stanford U is unknown to most UFO fans, but he's been researching UFO sightings for many years. He's published a book and papers on the subject. One of them, Replication and Interpretation Time-Series Analysis of a Catalog of UFO Events: Evidence of a Local-Sidereal-Time Modulation, has intrigued me for several years (I'll leave my doubts for another time).

In the paper, he analyses sightings reports from various databases and tries to correlate them with the movement of local stars in our end of the galaxy.

The results of his analysis suggested that UFO sighting reports *might* be sourced, in astronomical terms, to a location in space:

If the effect does indeed have an astronomical origin, it points to a source with right ascension in the range 21.5 +/- 1.5. Based on the analysis carried out to date, the declination is unknown.

Link (pdf)

He's not affirming anything and merely presenting the results that the available data generated. You can probably guess whereabouts Fomalhaut is?

Right ascension 22h 57m 39.0465s

a reply to: Kandinsky

I think you do have to differentiate between the creatures of say legend and the nature based spiritual Deities of any particular Pantheon, such as the Egyptian Gods or even the Annunaki, the Apkallu aren't of that catagory and not part of the Sumerian Pantheon, if anything they instructed in the establishment of organized religion.

The representations went through quite a few changes over the millenia, fish people, bird people, even turtles,a case of people relating to the familiar given a lack of any direct evidence and the vagaries of received tradition, but i always maintain the best illustration is from Vinca culture and thus arguably most indicative of direct contact with the origin of the tradition.

The Sumerians in settling for the iconography of the fish established the correspondent mythology in terms of the Fish star that emerges from the waters of Aquarius as the Apkallu were said to have emerged from the waters of the Abzu, we can draw the conclusion that is were they were held to be from, there is no other indication, and this correlates surprisingly well with the tradition of the Dogon.

The data you linked is interesting in projecting toward Fomalhaut, a control system that is pointing us in the right direction through the most unlikely of means and probably not as it seems, i can only concur that the historical data agrees that is the direction to be looking toward.

Amusing video...

originally posted by: Kantzveldt

"The Nommo are mythological ancestral spirits (sometimes referred to as deities) worshipped by the Dogon tribe of Mali. The word Nommos is derived from a Dogon word meaning "to make one drink." The Nommos are usually described as amphibious, hermaphroditic, fish-like creatures. Folk art depictions of the Nommos show creatures with humanoid upper torsos, legs/feet, and a fish-like lower torso and tail. The Nommos are also referred to as “Masters of the Water”, “the Monitors”, and "the Teachers”. Nommo can be a proper name of an individual, or can refer to the group of spirits as a whole.

Dogon mythology says that Nommo was the first living creature created by the sky god Amma. Shortly after his creation, Nommo underwent a transformation and multiplied into four pairs of twins. One of the twins rebelled against the universal order created by Amma. To restore order to his creation, Amma sacrificed another of the Nommo progeny, whose body was dismembered and scattered throughout the universe "




There are some similarities to Egyptian mythology too. The Ogdoad were 4 pairs of Egyptian Gods and Goddesses:

The Ogdoad was a system of eight deities, four gods and their consorts (the number four was considered to represent completeness). Each pair represented the male and female aspects of the four creative powers or sources. Nun and Naunet represented the primeval waters; Heh and Hauhet represented eternity; Kuk and Kuaket represented darkness; and Amun and Amaunet represented air (or that which is hidden). The gods were all depicted with frog´s heads, while the goddesses had the heads of serpents. Only Amun went on to be considered as more than a primeval force. While Nun was still referred to often, it was only as the representation of the waters of Chaos.

Source:

www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk...


The Dogon story of the twin who rebelled reminds me a little bit of Set and the one who was dismembered and scattered has similarities to Osiris.


www.ancientegypt.co.uk...

www.ancientegypt.co.uk...

www.akhet.co.uk...


(Sorry I messed up the quote when I replied to your post).

edit on 13-12-2014 by berenike because: (no reason given)

a reply to: Kantzveldt

I have a concern, that if one goes online and reads the Sumerian cuneiform tablets themselves, the evidence in contradictory to what the media tells us. It does not surprise me that the media disagrees with the evidence because when studying the Dead Sea Scrolls I saw the media disagreeing with the media, constantly.

We hear about tablets talking about science, judicial systems, since they started the whole thing about our days and minutes and years, we cannot see any of that online, instead we see a bunch of complete pagan letters of nonsense. There is nothing of knowledge translated as what they are known for. So the people of the media who fight for the translations demonstrate they are too ignorant to know this and people (more than just Sitchin) who translate the tablets for themselves come out telling us of strange stories.

In this case I will not go by the wicked media of falsehood and liars to civilization and go with what I can see in front of me, which is a story in itself in pictures.

It is sad to know that since the days of the 19th century when they first started discovered giant skeletons all over north America the Smithsonian was a government cover up, who were the men in black of archaeology, that there began a massive world cover up to discredit the evidence of giants who walked the earth who also could be UFO related.

Every anomalous site around the world is lied about, as if in paranoia all the talk show hosts like Whitney Streiber are actually government agents trying to convince the public of alien technology being passed down to the hands of terrestrial officers hanging out in hidden bases underground the American southwest desert.

Andrew Collins will testify to the oldest site in the north being utterly 'alien' in nature. As in your thread here www.abovetopsecret.com...

The legend through oral history is that Baalbek was built by Adam's son, I think that is significant, because it gives us a connection to the giants in ancient literature.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Thats good to hear, I thought that God entering our world would of brought destruction.

although I've heard of how that dolphins have a higher intelligence theory before and how they could be aliens. Lol. Even though dolphins are mammalian.

These Nommo though are weird in certain carving or designs since some show more human characteristics then others, or just blend in.

Also if the fish theme does some how relate to a suit for protection against the surrounding environment, is actually supposed to like a fish man, or does it have to do with where they could have had shiny silver space suit, like how reflective fish scales are? Just like the cult or old classic coloured sci-fi videos.

They even got beards...Beard that are fins, or fins that are beards?

Like wth!?