Bad rap: U.S. tried to stir unrest in Cuba by infiltrating its hip hop scene

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Oh look are you that user that defended the Libyan rebels by any chance?

What the hell does Cuba have to do with Libya?... Nothing... Not to mention that I am certain that you are mistaking me with someone else... This is nothing but a red herring of your part trying to dismiss what I have to say...

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter


It wont be an hellhole if it wasnt for the embgro.

Before the embargo and not long after castro took over in Cuba it became a hell hole... Cuba is a hellhole because of the communist oppressive regime, not because of the embargo...

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter

At least in Cuba they have a better health care system and better doctors then the ones in west whom always lie in your face.

Better healthcare system in Cuba?... Who told you that Michael Moore?...

You mean the healthcare system that occurs in this type of hospital, not the whitewash BS that Michael Moore showed you from a hospital reserved for TOURISTS and powerful people in Cuba?...

The following are images from REAL HOSPITALS in Cuba that are reserved for regular CUBANS, and not the BS tourist hospital that Michael Moore claims exists for all Cubans...

In the following video it shows how a pregnant woman is told to stand and wait for a doctor meanwhile the nurses just talk to each other. One of the nurses even blames the pregnant woman for her condition and tells her to just stand there and wait... That's a better healthcare system according to "Agent_USA_Supporter"...



The following video shows other images of real hospitals in Cuba.





WARNING, EXPLICIT AND DISTURBING IMAGES OF PATIENTS IN CUBA!!!!

The following video also has the song from a Cuban rapper who is explaining some of the realities of Cuba. The images themselves can tell you the TRUTH, and not what leftists, socialists, and communists among others who love repressive leftwing regimes want to claim...



In the video you can see the conditions of some of Cuba's real hospitals which Cuban patients have to use. It shows "how stock" the medicines are in the regular Cuban hospitals, and part of the "better healthcare system in Cuba"...

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter

You comparison Cuba with North Korea is comical. It shows you then you haven't being to Cuba.

Who is really showing who hasn't really been to Cuba, and seen the real Cuba is you. BTW, by the real Cuba I am not talking about you staying in your tourist hotel and staying in the tourist sections...

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter

If Cuba was North Korea Canadians and Europeans wouldn't be able to travel are you aware of that? i doubt that your Cuban i have seen people on the net claim so many times the following.

No communist regime is exactly the same, but yes they have MANY similarities... Learn to read in context what other people type...

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
I am Syrian, I am Libyan, Ukrankian.

And exactly how does that corroborate what you are claiming about Cuba?...

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
Its clear what your doing is your defending this protest rap program since now its being exposed wide open. You exposed yourself when you claimed and compared that Cuba is like NK, if thats true they wouldn't allow Canadians or others to travel towards into Cuba.

First of all, I gave some of the possibilities of what could be happening about this story. As for exposing myself. You are clearly deluding yourself. Second of all I didn't say North Korea is exactly the same as Cuba... I was responding to Canuck who claims that you can't compare Cuba to North Korea... Yes you can compare them, they are both socialist/communist countries which are very oppressive systems...

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
Don't bother posting sites like Real Cuba.

Of course not, you rather side with a leftist oppressive regime...

WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGES SHOW THE DEAD AT THE CUBAN PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL MAZORRA!!!

These patients in the Cuban psychiatric hospital of Mazorra died of malnutrition, and cold.



You try to deny all you want, you won't change the fact that you have no idea of what you are talking about when it comes to the healthcare system in Cuba. These patients also show signs of torture. To this day it is not know exactly how many died. The Cuban government, in it's always propaganda campaign to herald the healthcare system in Cuba as one of the best in the world claims one figure, but it could have been as many as 40 if not more.

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: Mandroid7

Well,Cuba is a messed up ,oppressive,communist hell hole, and we need to free it's people and bring them democracy so that we can once again build resorts there and enjoy it's lovely women and beaches.


On a side note, if I wanted to punish Cuba through rap music i would deport Kanye there.

It wont be an hellhole if it wasnt for the embgro.

And there wouldn't be an embargo if Castro, please remind me again!

Oh that's right we will just ignore it, like it never happened.

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Any response to the post by electricuniverse?

Often those with passionate emotional investment see only that which supports their opinion. Cuba may also be assessed in terms of what it was before the revolution and how it compares today with neighboring states. I don't see a lot of that coming forward from the true believers. I, too, have experience with former east bloc relatives, and understand a lot of the rationale behind their strong feelings - along with their trouble in adjusting to the variety of 'freedoms' offered by the west.

There are discussions that I no longer have with some individuals on this site as they would deem one a fool or worse if one doesn't fall lock-step into their ideology. I know a Potemkin Village when I see one...why should I conduct a discourse with someone who insists that I am unable to formulate a valid opinion all by myself?

If I choose to wear the appropriate lens, then I could find injustices equivalent to the Castro regime's occurring in the United States. Should I define America accordingly, I'd get schooled in a hurry, and rightfully so. Is that enough of a response?

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I could not agree more.

Electric Universe pulled out all the bells in whistles in an attempt to discredit the man made rise of CO2, hence my reluctance to believe any words posted by said user.

The bottom line is the US needs to lift the embargo on Cuba.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck


Often those with passionate emotional investment see only that which supports their opinion.
...

Riiight, so says a person who never experienced life in Cuba as a Cuban... You got to wonder how some people can't see the irony in their claims.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
There are discussions that I no longer have with some individuals on this site as they would deem one a fool or worse if one doesn't fall lock-step into their ideology. I know a Potemkin Village when I see one...why should I conduct a discourse with someone who insists that I am unable to formulate a valid opinion all by myself?

You can formulate all the 'opinion' you want. You can't change the fact that you simply want to dismiss what has been happening in the island.

I gave videos, and part of the experience I have had in Cuba as a CUBAN, and not as a tourist willing to blindly waltz through an island in which a full communist dictatorship exists simply because you want to keep on enjoying your vacation time in Cuba while trying to keep your conscience clean.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
If I choose to wear the appropriate lens, then I could find injustices equivalent to the Castro regime's occurring in the United States. Should I define America accordingly, I'd get schooled in a hurry, and rightfully so. Is that enough of a response?

First of all, the United States is another topic altogether, but yes there are some "changes" that have been happening in the U.S. that is taking it closer and closer to a similar type of socialist dictatorship as that of Cuba. But it is still a long way off from what Cuba is and has been since the Cuban revolution, and the fact that you can't see this is a clear sign that you choose to wear blinders and would not listen to what anyone has to say.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I could not agree more.

Electric Universe pulled out all the bells in whistles in an attempt to discredit the man made rise of CO2, hence my reluctance to believe any words posted by said user.

The bottom line is the US needs to lift the embargo on Cuba.

Wow, again? CO2 has nothing to do with Cuba jrod.

The bottom line is even if the U.S. were to lift the embargo it wouldn't help Cubans in the least...

Cuba has a rather large tourist industry, and they had been doing business with Canada (if they are not still doing business) European countries and other countries for a long time. Yet it hasn't helped the Cuban people at all.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

oh and btw, just in case you didn't know, even under the dictatorship of Fulgencio Batista most Cubans had a better life than since the castro's revolution.

Cuba used to be known as the "Jewel of the Caribbean".

ADOLFO RIVERO CARO


What was Cuba like before the Revolution?

By the end of the War of Independence in 1898, Cuba had been in ruins. As a consequence of the war some 400,000 persons had died, about one-fifth of the population. The country had lost two-thirds of its wealth. Railroads, bridges and telegraph lines had been destroyed. Sanitary conditions were deplorable and the country was gripped by mortal endemic sicknesses like yellow fever.

"Once upon a time there was a Republic. It had its constitution, its laws, its civil rights, its President, a Congress, and law courts. Everyone could assemble, associate, speak and write with complete freedom. There existed a public opinion both respected and heeded."

Fidel Castro, "History Will Absolve Me" (1953)

* In 1953, almost 57 per cent of the population was urban. More than 1/2 of the population lived in cities of more than 25,000 inhabitants, 1/3 lived in 4 cities of more than 100,000 inhabitants. One-sixth of the population lived in Havana, third-largest capital of the world in relation to the total number of the nation's inhabitants after London and Vienna.

(Cuba: The Pursuit of Freedom, Hugh Thomas

* In the 1950s Cuba had a large middle class: about a third of the population. Twenty-three per cent of the working class was classified as skilled.

* The middle class was NOT flanked by powerful landowners or by an upper class. And there was much social mobility.

* Cuba had the third-highest per capita income in Latin America, exceeded only by Argentina and Venezuela-between $350 and $550 a year, probably nearer the higher figure.

*According to a U.S. Department of Commerce analysis (1956), Cuba was "the most heavily capitalized country in Latin America" and its "network of railways and highways blanket the country." The country also had numerous well- equipped ports.

*Per capita consumption of meat was about 65 lbs to 70 lbs a year; of sugar 50 kilos, exceeded only by England, Australia and Denmark, and higher than that of the U.S.

* Life expectancy was 58.8 years, while the average for South America was 56 years.

* Death rate was 6.4 per 1,000 persons and infant mortality 37.6 per 1,000. These figures were among the most favorable in Latin America. As in Argentina and Chile, two of the top three causes of death were decidedly "modern": cardiovascular diseases and malignant tumors. Citizens of most other Latin American nations succumbed to diseases of poverty such as digestive-system complications, infancy-related illnesses and respiratory disorders.

"Cuba is one of the countries [of Latin America] where the standard of living of the masses was particularly high."

Anibal Escalante, leader of the Cuban Communist Party until 1962.

* During the 1950's, Cuban literacy rates were the fourth-highest in Latin America after Argentina, Chile and Costa Rica.

* Cuba had between sixty and seventy newspapers, eighteen in Havana alone. The twenty-eight main newspapers claimed a circulation of 580,000. Magazines were important. Bohemia, with a circulation of 250,000, was the most prominent weekly of hispanic America.

* Cuba had more telephones per capita than any Latin American country except Argentina and Uruguay; more TV sets per capita than any other Latin American country, and more than Italy; more cars per capita than any Latin American country except Venezuela.

* The dollar and the peso circulated jointly and were interchangeable.

Was Cuba before the revolution a country without serious problems?

Of course not.

Cuba was a poor country, though not in the same category of poverty as India, Mexico, Bolivia or Haiti. There was a wide gap between living standards in the cities (especially Havana) and the countryside. Only seven per cent of rural houses had electricity. Cuba had a large class of permanently or partially unemployed, perhaps as much as a third of the labor force in some months of the year, since Cuba's main crop, sugar, was seasonal. In 1958 Cuba's economy was not so much underdevelopd as it was stagnant. And it was stagnant due to lack of entrepreneurial incentives.
...

...
Was Cuba in the 40s, 50s and even during the six years of Batista's dictatorship a feudal, reactionary, anti-labor country?

"From the late 1930s, labor was a major force. Successive governments sought to placate labor with a series of advanced laws-providing an eight hour day; a forty-four hour week (with pay for forty-eight hours); a months's paid holiday, four further official holidays with pay; nine days' sick leave with pay; women workers to have six weeks' holiday before and after childbirth; some wages to be tied to the cost of living and employers to be unable to move factories without government permission. Employees could only be dismissed with proof of cause.

"It seemed indeed that the government always intervened on the side of labor. By the 1950s in fact labor had almost a stranglehold over the government and it would not be an exaggeration to say that Batista, during his second period of power, ran Cuba by means of an alliance with organized labor. In return for the support of labor, Batista underwrote the vast number of restrictive practices, the limitation on mechanization and the bans on dismissals, that were such a characteristic of the Cuban labor scene."

Hugh Thomas, "Cuba, The Pursuit of Freedom" (p. 1173)

"The primary objective of the post-1933 union movement was to safeguard employment. Union efforts generally proved effective. Although unemployment and underemployment were never significantly alleviated, job security for those employed was virtually guaranteed. One law provided that all labor disputes had to be discussed under the auspices of the Ministry of Labor if the majority of workers in the firm so desired. Throughout the 1940s, organized labor prevented the modification of a dismissals decree whereby workers could be fired only after cumbersome procedures. During the 1940s, courts decided in favor of labor in three out of five dismissal cases, and the executive regularly decreed wage increases. Militant unions succeded in maintaining the position of unionized workers and, consequently, made it difficult for capital to improve efficency."

Marifeli Perez Stable, Marxist historian ("The Cuban Revolution," 1993)

Can it truthfully be said that Cuba before Castro was a society without hope and in need of a radical revolution?

HOW DID FIDEL CASTRO HIMSELF CONSIDERED THE REPUBLIC?

Excerpt from Fidel Castro’s “History Will Absolve Me”

“Let me tell you a story: Once upon a time there was a Republic. It had its Constitution, its laws, its freedoms, a President, a Congress and Courts of Law. Everyone could assemble, associate, speak and write with complete freedom. The people were not satisfied with the government officials at that time, but they had the power to elect new officials and only a few days remained before they would do so. Public opinion was respected and heeded and all problems of common interest were freely discussed.There were political parties, radio and television debates and forums and public meetings.
...

www.neoliberalismo.com...

Yet castro and his revolution destroyed Cuba, and today you still get people who have never experienced life as a Cuban and want to claim "everything is well and dandy in Cuba, just dismiss and ignore all the videos and stories that have been smuggled out of Cuba and the about 2 million Cuban dissidents that have been able to escape the island one way or another... Of course, also dismiss the fact that to this day there are still many Cubans who try to escape the island on inflated tires, and makeshift boats, many of whom die of thirst, or eaten by sharks... just dismiss all of it..." Or so would claim people like canuck and jrod among others...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I wonder if these tourists ever meet any REAL Cubans or just the staff at their resorts...
Especially the one who brought up the Potemkin Villages.

a reply to: abe froman

Of course not, he rather belief the propaganda that comes out of the communist regime. Before the era of blogs/bloggers, Cuba's news media, newspapers, and all sources of information were, and in most cases still are heavily restricted.

All the claims that Cuba has a high literacy rate, a high life expectancy, one of the best healthcare systems in the world etc ALL come directly from the propaganda of the communist regime. But a lot of people don't seem to understand what that really means.

No human Right groups are allowed in Cuba, and the false information that Unicef and similar groups have, is the information provided by the communist regime.

Most Cubans don't still have access to the internet, and mostly doctors, or other specialists are given controlled access to the internal internet of Cuba, called "infomed". Even there all emails are monitored, and only websites controlled by the Cuban government can be accessed.

The cellphones that Cuban people have come mostly from the U.S. or latin-America and are given to some family members in Cuba by relatives living outside. Even cell phone activity is heavily monitored and in you don't have access to "Wi-Fi" or cell phone towers unless you are in one of the major hospitals or universities.

The monitoring that occurs in the U.S. and other similar countries is nothing in comparison to the monitoring in Cuba which is very similar to that of North Korea.

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I wonder if these tourists ever meet any REAL Cubans or just the staff at their resorts...
Especially the one who brought up the Potemkin Villages.

You don't have to rhetorically wonder...all you have to do is ask. You may correctly assume that I have. I have no agenda to promote, nor any axe to grind. My eyes are open.

More to the point. I don't like rap music to begin with, and I am amused at the US attempts to sow dissent in Cuba by using hip-hop. And if communist dictatorships are so bad...then cut off all ties to China. The American embargo of Cuba is a petulant joke.

And that's pretty much all I have to say on the subject. See you in Havana?

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I would have to say that you keep your eyes close when it comes to the realities of Cuba. Like already stated you obviously want to ignore the realities of Cuba by turning a blind eye to those problems because you like to vacation there and don't want to be reminded that you are only helping a dictatorship with your influx of money every time you vacation in Cuba.

When I, or other Cuban-Americans like me have vacationed in Cuba, most of us stay with our families, we don't use the luxurious hotels and pay to go to the tourist hospitals, which regular Cubans cannot access, and which are reserved for the top brass of the communist regime, or as already stated for rich tourists. We go there to help our families, not to take advantage of the situation happening in Cuba under the oppressive communist regime of the island.

Personally, I don't like rap music either, but that is besides the point. People should be able to express themselves through any music they like imo as long as they don't incite racial hatred, or the wanton killing of others.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

1.Cuba and Russia allies.

2.It has a lot to do with Libya.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You sure remind me of those pro Syrian/Libyan commemorators on here whom have defended their proxy uprising and your doing the same thing which is your defending the rap program.

People should be able to express themselves through any music

Indeed nothing like music with songs that have lyrics such as by Upraise! Or Down with the Machine.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

May i add? the contractor for this beloved Rap program you are defending is Rajko Bozic, one of the few people whom were hired by the American government to manufacture the same proxy protests in Serbia of 2000.

The infamous Otpor! these same Serbs also helped to start the protests in Egypt, Libya, Syria so i know fairly what your defending.

a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter

Wait a second, you need to learn to read in context what people type. You obviously missed my points...

Among the possibilities I mentioned that could be occurring on regards to this topic I stated that the Cuban government could be making at least some of these claims up, because they tend to do that, and also that it could be possible that this was happening but that the Cuban hip-hop artists didn't know the U.S. was trying to use them.

You see, there are people, and it seems it includes you, who want to claim that the dissent in Cuba is all a "CIA plot"... which is patently a LIE...

This is part of my responses in this same thread which you obviously ignored.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

...
As for the op, the information seems to come from Cuba itself so this could be reverse propaganda from the communist regime.
...

BTW, in case some of you didn't know, yes there are many Cuban artists, including hip-hop and rappers, who sing against the communist regime. The communist regime also has hired Cuban artists to make propaganda in favor of the regime as well.
...
BTW, it could also be that such a program did, or does exist but the Cubans involved could not have known the U.S. government was involved.
...

And stop trying to drag Libya into this discussion... This has nothing to do with Libya... Just because Libya is allied with Cuba and you are from Libya it doesn't mean you know what is happening in Cuba.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

The irony is that you can find a lot of abject poverty in the US, so that's a pretty bad yardstick. Rights and freedoms? Sure, they have a long ways to go...but there is progress. The economy is opening up, and as far as resorts go, Cubans are permitted to book their own vacations there...not just 'accompany' gringos.In many ways, they have more opportunity than neighbouring 3'rd world countries. Forced to go to government schools? Mercy! That doesn't include the fact that they get free educations as far as they can go...even up to PhD. Universal health care. Much depends on who you talk to, and if you want to paint a nasty picture, it's quite possible. Same as here. Same as the US.

And I have been to America, and witnessed the poverty, my friend.

The irony is for you to claim that Cubans on the island are "permitted to book their own vacations"... Most Cubans do not make enough money to "book vacations in tourist hotels" like you can... For crying out loud most Cubans can't get enough food to eat like you can and have to resort to trading and buying from the black market because "la libreta" doesn't give enough food even for one person for a month yet you want to claim that Cubans can book their own vacations in the tourist hotels you go to?...

As for "free education"... you obviously don't know that since about 11-12 years old Cuban children until they are adults and finish with their education have to work for 45 days in the fields of Cuba doing FORCED hard labor as a way of payment for "the so called free education"...

If you become a specialist in Cuba, such as a doctor, you are controlled even more because the communist regime tries to take all measures to keep you from seeking political asylum in other nations.

Yes, there are doctors and other Cuban specialists who are sent to other countries as a propaganda campaign in favor of the communist dictatorship, but they are not free to do whatever they want, they are controlled and it is very hard for most of them to seek asylum. Not to mention that if those Cuban specialists leave family behind their family may end up paying for the "treasonous act" of trying to seek political assylum...

We have had this discussion before yet like always you ignore the facts about Cuba. As for the healthcare system in Cuba?... Please, you have only gone to the TOURIST hospitals and the hospitals in which the top brass of the communist dictatorship uses... You have never in your entire life seen a real hospital in Cuba where most Cubans have to go... As for your claim of being the same in Cuba as in the U.S?... You are out of your mind...


It is more and more obvious that you are spouting the "sanitized communist official" story of Cuba.

Here is what another Cuban living on the island and who is not afraid of speaking up against the communist dictatorship has to say.