Listening to John McCain speak is making my blood boil

a reply to: KROandSOTV

So to your point, when should torture be ok? What are the guidelines or rules of the game, or aren't there any?
Do we disregard the Geneva Convention anytime a civilian is harmed? Can we use gas on our enemies as well? What about the police? If they suspect you harmed someone, can they pull out your fingernails with pliers until you confess?

originally posted by: myartisstrong
a reply to: KROandSOTV

You are arguing an uphill battle man, most people here know that the official story is horsesh!t. And by know, I mean whole heartedly believe. Makes you wonder why they were not interrogating Saudis.

Oh right. Saudis, but he was holed up in Afghanistan with hundreds of other muliti national muslim murderers.Who were there fighting the coalition forces hmmmmmmmm

originally posted by: XP100
a reply to: KROandSOTV

So to your point, when should torture be ok? What are the guidelines or rules of the game, or aren't there any?
Do we disregard the Geneva Convention anytime a civilian is harmed? Can we use gas on our enemies as well? What about the police? If they suspect you harmed someone, can they pull out your fingernails with pliers until you confess?

Do they fight by the geneva convention?

a reply to: myartisstrong

McCain did his best to try and defend these animals as "protectors of liberty" ... as did Bush before the report was released.

Is it really so hard to understand that torture, creating deformed babies, bombing women, children and the elderly, using chemical weapons and destroying countries are all done for the good of the people?

...it`s an insult to the intelligence of people that they even try to sell that crap as being justified...

...you`re getting called out as being idiots by them and you can bet they laugh you out for it !

most ironic part is he knows what its like, when the viet cong had him.

originally posted by: XP100
a reply to: KROandSOTV

So to your point, when should torture be ok? What are the guidelines or rules of the game, or aren't there any?
Do we disregard the Geneva Convention anytime a civilian is harmed? Can we use gas on our enemies as well? What about the police? If they suspect you harmed someone, can they pull out your fingernails with pliers until you confess?

its an eye for an eye untill the whole world is blind

a reply to: KROandSOTV

No, but we do. I mean did.

I shutter to think how many wars we would be engaged in if John McCain was elected as president. The guy is still fighting the Vietnam war in his own deranged way. He's been a Senator way too long, and as he gets older, he seems like he's itching to get the U.S. involved in a full scale world war. Maybe it was the hand of God that made him choose Sarah Palin, which certainly lost him votes to be elected president.

The question is, will anyone in the Bush administration and the CIA be held accountable? I doubt very much that Bush was left out of the loop. (Sounds like another Watergate, where the president declares no knowledge of what was going on around him, and later on gets pardoned of all wrong doings). Our justice systems has already proven to be unfair when it comes to government officials. I'm sure the same two systems of justice will also be applied here.

A fair justice system would throw all those government officials involved in jail.

originally posted by: WeRpeons
I shutter to think how many wars we would be engaged in if John McCain was elected as president. The guy is still fighting the Vietnam war in his own deranged way. He's been a Senator way too long, and as he gets older, he seems like he's itching to get the U.S. involved in a full scale world war. Maybe it was the hand of God that made him choose Sarah Palin, which certainly lost him votes to be elected president.

The question is, will anyone in the Bush administration and the CIA be held accountable? I doubt very much that Bush was left out of the loop. (Sounds like another Watergate, where the president declares no knowledge of what was going on around him, and later on gets pardoned of all wrong doings). Our justice systems has already proven to be unfair when it comes to government officials. I'm sure the same two systems of justice will also be applied here.

A fair justice system would throw all those government officials involved in jail.

presidents are puppets even if he was elected (god forbid) he would do as he was told...ask Kennady oh wait...mere mouth peices for the govenment/oligarcs of the world

originally posted by: myartisstrong
I turned on the hearing right as John McCain spewed this horse s__t !

"THE TRUTH IS SOMETIMES USED BY OUR ENEMIES TO HURT US"

He then goes on to describe how these tortures didn't produce any reliable information, how this was undertaken by 2 private contractors instead of the CIA. How the contractors disobeyed the CIA and how many of the operatives were not authorized by the CIA. The woman who spoke before McCain described in detail the various methods of torture which, to me, could only be carried out by sadistic and twisted human beings who I assume have no humanity left.

McCain did his best to try and defend these animals as "protectors of liberty" ... as did Bush before the report was released. Of course the footage of these acts and this interrogation was destroyed before they could be viewed by this committee.

Here is the link to the story that RT posted after the live stream ended. rt.com...

I'm at work so I cant write a lengthy post, I'm just so sick of hearing, "blah blah blah, wasn't the best decision, blah blah, we will not do it again, blah blah, protect liberty and freedom...." sounds just like the police saying they are going to look into retraining officers after all their brutality has been exposed...

WHEN WILL SOMETHING BE DONE TO THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE?! WHEN WILL THE LIP SERVICE STOP AND ACTUAL ACTIONS TAKE PLACE!

Seriously, McCain is a pos. War-mongering, war crime supporting, proxy war instigating, wanting to bomb all of the ME McCain.

a reply to: myartisstrong

John McCain R - Tel Aviv/Raytheon.

2nd

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

He doesn't even seem to see the problem in that statement:

"THE TRUTH IS SOMETIMES USED BY OUR ENEMIES TO HURT US"

Recently I heard they did brain scans of lying people. The whole brain lights up when people lie. Why? Because its hard: you have to think of how to act like a person sincerely saying the words, you have to think of all the other things the person knows, and how to make the lie seem consistent, etc. True statements didn't cause all that, because true statements are easy. You don't have to carefully construct the illusion of a consistent reality for someone else when truth is on your side, reality backs you up automatically. That's really what truth is, alliance with reality. And reality is a good partner to have.

My point is, when we've put ourselves in a position where our enemies are in the position to hurt us with truth/accurate reports of reality, we've already lost. We need to keep reality on our side with ethical conduct.

.

originally posted by: tridentblue
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

He doesn't even seem to see the problem in that statement:

"THE TRUTH IS SOMETIMES USED BY OUR ENEMIES TO HURT US"

Recently I heard they did brain scans of lying people. The whole brain lights up when people lie. Why? Because its hard: you have to think of how to act like a person sincerely saying the words, you have to think of all the other things the person knows, and how to make the lie seem consistent, etc. True statements didn't cause all that, because true statements are easy. You don't have to carefully construct the illusion of a consistent reality for someone else when truth is on your side, reality backs you up automatically. That's really what truth is, alliance with reality. And reality is a good partner to have.

My point is, when we've put ourselves in a position where our enemies are in the position to hurt us with truth/accurate reports of reality, we've already lost. Reality should be on our side.

Exactly, if your enemies can simply use the "truth to hurt you" it is not them that has used it against you, you did it to yourself.

It's kinda like when I was living in China people would say "never make someone lose face," which sometimes just means being considerate but it also goes to not exposing them in public for wrongdoing.

For the second, if I call someone out for real wrongdoing, its not that the exposure caused them to lose face, it was their actions.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14


Sounds like a real weakness in the Chinese Culture.

Face loss is easy. For years, shady people have worked to engineer compromising situations in people in power, so they could be photographed and the individuals blackmailed. Its a big part of history. My take these days is that if I saw compromising photos of anyone in power, I would become a bigger supporter of them, because "face" doesn't matter, substance matters: what those individuals are accomplishing on a day to day basis, and the photos wouldn't be out there unless they flipped off their blackmailers, which gives them huge points in my eyes.

All the Chinese face saving culture is about, like any fundamentalist culture, is control by a ruling elite who sees (through surveillance state) the flaws that would damage face, and are willing to use their info at any time if the individuals step out of line. A similar apparatus in the US is still lamenting public acceptence of gays, as a million blackmail photos have been rendered useless. I saw a Youtube video with a lot of dumb points, but also a good one - it dismissed the concept of God that gives us natural desires and then criminalizes them. What a joke! But that's precisely what it is: Movements that criminalize human nature are about control of people through their natures.

The way to fight this system of control has always been love and forgiveness, and thus great masters have taught that for a long time. But it seems we humans all have a lot to learn.