Assimilate, or exfiltrate.

So...

It is fairly rare for me to post in the Rant forum. More often than not I like to contribute to discussions that are going somewhere, discussions which have a conclusion which is not foregone in the way that this one will surely be. However, my ire has been stoked.

I love this website. I love coming here every day, reading the topics of the day, searching out interesting threads, shooting the proverbial breeze with my fellow members, and learning, always learning. I LOVE it! I also respect the fact that significant effort on the part of moderators, administrators, and indeed the ownership, is what provides us with this wonderful environment to converse within. When I post, I try where possible to make contributions which are useful, interesting, or informative, and I do that because I owe that much to the people who make this place run, and indeed I owe that much to my fellow members as well. I try to make my contributions to the site, as useful to others, as the vast majority of content here has been to me over the years. You guys are my family, and you deserve nothing but the best.

We all have our part to play after all, in keeping the topics and discussions thereof, relevant, useful, and valid. That is what keeps content quality around here high, and I for one support that, rabidly!

*foams at the mouth*

One of the ways to keep our content quality high, is to ensure that the topic at hand is the one being discussed in thread. Another way we prevent content quality in threads from slipping, is by paying attention to concepts like good manners, good conduct, and an open and decent attitude toward one another.

So as you can imagine, when I happen across a thread, on an important topic of the day, which contains a healthy discussion for the most part, and one person in the thread seems determined to wave their nuts around all over the place with short, ill informed, ill mannered posts, promoting their attitude above the interests of the site and the membership alike.... I have to confess, I get a little agitated by that, despite all my efforts to counter that feeling.

But to then have that person turn around and accuse me of being passive aggressive when I point out how their posts make me feel about things.... well that is just crossing off all the wrong boxes on my tick sheet. Lets lay this on the line shall we?

If you have something to say in a thread, then keep a civil tongue in your damned head. If you cannot do that, then perhaps you need to think about taking yourself elsewhere. This is not a playground, this is not a street corner. Standards of decency and good conduct in communication are upheld here, and therefore this is no place for those who are either incapable of engaging, or unwilling to engage with the issues in a frank, fair, and even handed manner. This is ATS. We have standards. Either familiarise yourself with them, and accept them, or sod off.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I agree with you, but who is doing this? This is the most civil place on the internet that I know of. This is hardly the land of trollololols. ;p.

a reply to: Nechash

Well, I do not wish to discuss the specifics Nechash, since I believe that to do so would itself be a violation of an element of the Terms and Conditions, unless I misread something last time I looked at them (which is possible of course, but unlikely).

What I would say, is that I am glad that this is fairly rare, or at least, that I experience it rarely myself!

a reply to: TrueBrit

I believe that we could all do well to just ignore those who use Ad Hominem. Once they attack the object speaking and not the subject discussed, simply ignore. Ad Hominem is a fallacy. Speaking to the subject is what this forum is all about. Ignorance clings to bias and condescension, having nothing to say. It's only avenue is to demonize the person speaking. Deny ignorance and deny those who ignore the subject.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Well said.

Great rant.



It's grotesque to me, when people do what they do, all because they cannot hold intelligent dialogue with a fellow member.


It borders on pathetic, sometimes I think it's down to a persons self victimisation or indeed low self esteem.


I try not to feed them.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Well you are not setting the best example by swearing at everyone who does not see ATS as you do. It is like saying go get sodomized if you don't agree with me about how we should express ourselves on this particular forum. Your post is a little bigoted in that respect.

ATS is not that holy. Come on, all manner of crazy, unproven, not very well thought out stuff is posted here. People vary in intelligence, writing ability, eloquence, research skills and gullibility. Are you the holy perfect one who never expresses one of these behaviours?

I know I often don't hit the mark I would like to, though I try. Am I better than you because I NEVER swear in posts and you sometimes do? Or am I worse than you because sometimes I don't meet with your expectations of what you particularly like and don't like about ATS?

Are you sure you are not just ranting because somebody reached your sore spot and criticised you and you are angry about it?

I like all the diversity here and certainly glad that it is not all kindergarten baby voice politically correct hollowness that the MSM is so full of. At least here we can find out how people really feel.

Careful with the censoring and dictating perhaps?:

a reply to: TrueBrit

I know what one your talking about...I saw the debate in nlbs thread.

Me and you have had a recent debate ourselves and I never once felt belittled or that you were rude. There are many members on here that I disagree with that I feel I can still have a debate with...even a heated one but in the very next thread I can agree with them about something and there is no personal grudge against them.

The fact is, as you said it, we are all here looking for truth and have that in common. My opinion has been swayed before on ats and thats one of my favorite moments. When I learn I was wrong or hadn't really looked at the other side of the book.

I bet most of us on this site if we met up wed probably get along pretty well!

Over the years it does seem ats has gotten worse with this kind of stuff, but it is still much better than the general internet..which isnt saying much for humanity.

a reply to: TrueBrit

PS.

How do you think I feel being half Jewish and pro Israel. Sometimes it makes me really miserable when I see what is posted. However, I just shake it off and argue my point without getting babyish about it because I am not getting my way. I would NEVER want to censor those people that are critical of Israel. I want to know why they feel the way they do. That is why I come here.

a reply to: AlephBet

I think that is very difficult in practice sometimes, although for the most part I agree entirely.

I do think however, that equally there are occasions where this sort of thing needs taking by the horns. When someone posts crap which takes up a few scrolls of the mouse wheel, and yet contains little by way of information density, in the middle of a serious discussion, it messes with the entire flow of conversation, even when no one replies to it. It just cannot stand!

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

I want to know why they feel the way they do.

Make a thread asking why, I'm sure people will be happy to tell you the many reasons.

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

I have no interest in censoring anyone who has a viewpoint that counters my own on the topics at hand. Absolutely none. I am here to learn from everyone else after all, and one cannot learn anything worth knowing with a closed mind. However, equally there is no benefit to letting people derail conversations by way of playing the players and not the ball, time after time after time. There is nothing to be learned from that, nothing at all.

I would never suggest that I am perfect, because I am aware that I am not. But I would never consider pushing a discussion of the rails just to fluff my own ego, or because I view my right to have an attitude problem, as being more important than the right of others not to have to put up with it! This is a community, and people within it have a duty to one another to keep their attitudes to themselves, and deal with the issues honestly. When that fails, the intent of the site fails, and when that happens we all loose out.

You might not agree with me that the ideals upon which this site was founded are worthy of as much respect as I place in them, and that is fair enough. Your right to hold that opinion is ironclad, regardless of my disagreement with it. But because those are none the less the ideals which informed the creation of the T&C, we are all bound by those ideals to a degree, none the less, and we ought to be aware of that when we post.

If one take a time machine through the search engine, we can all be reminded how members used to conduct themselves.

I searched a few old threads and was humbled by the exchanges between members. Even at the beginning, there were always a few nuts, but they would stick out like a sore thumb. Now they hunt in packs.

Like I've said before, you're a most excellent poster TrueBrit and your demeanor alone make me want to read your posts. May you be an example to all. Have a good day!

a reply to: TrueBrit

I never seem to add anything of any value to any conversation here or in real life.

I must say though,I really do like to read what you write-I've never read anything of yours that I would disagree with.

Some people though are simply...odd...they cannot refrain from writing things that are clearly offensive,untrue or wrong.

My unfavourites are Apostle Bombers that attempt to derail atheist threads or posts with religious text "cliffs".

a reply to: TrueBrit

So someone managed to get under your skin today ? No surprise, the inane attacks are getting to be quite ridiculously frequent as of late... or so it seems to me.

We all have these days friend... we all have them.

I know which posts you're talking about because I just finished reading through it a little while ago, shook my head and clicked off the thread. You took the higher road and walked away from it. So kudos for that.

It can get to be a real challenge for even the best of us to try to keep one's head from exploding with frustration on a constant basis... eventually someone pushes the right button at the right time and then "Blam!" the wheels are set in motion.

I find myself not even bothering to post in most "serious" topics anymore because I've become quite tired of the verbal vomit and sidelined diatribe that's pretty much a guarantee in just about every thread these days.

I guess as the ATS populace has grown over the years, the odds naturally increase that there's going to be an equated amount of garbage that snowballs alongside.

It makes for an interesting challenge for most of us (particularly the mods), to say the least.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

Exactly rockpaperhammock.

The fact of the matter is, that I can have a viewpoint, without believing that everyone who does not share it has an agenda, and deciding on top of that, to attack them for it. I can disagree with a person, without disliking them, and I am glad that came across in our recent interaction!

At the end of the day, we really ARE all here for the same reasons, when you really boil it down. There are however, a small cadre of persons who are not capable of accepting the right of others to hold opinions which counter their own, and that mindset must be countered. In every place where that manner of thinking is not countered, you have tyranny.

You seem like a very thoughtful person.

Don't let a couple of drive-bys get you worked.

We have been here long enough to see these people come and go.

I guess we are all different. Cause, nothing written on this site bothers me.

I enjoy reading your well thought out posts.

Passive Aggressive? Code words for you are a great writer.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Don't call the kettle black Brit-you rant all the time.

You are right-Common sense and courtesy should be applied to any discussion, but we can't expect everyone to keep a cool head in the heat of the moment; many people wear their hearts on their sleeves, or have knee jerk reactions to a subject-I know that I'm guilty of the latter at times.

However responding to these 'trolls' only strengthens their resolve. So how do we combat them? Paul Anka and Lisa Simpson had the perfect response.

"Just don't look, just don't look..."

a reply to: CranialSponge

In your post above, you state that you find yourself not even bothering to post on serious topics anymore, because the amount of junk that happens in thread has put you off. I can understand that Cranial Sponge, and that is why the sort of behaviour I am ranting about makes me so damned furious!

See, you, me, the members... we are supposed to be able to use this site for what it is for. The intention of the site is that it is meant to be a place where discussion and debate can happen on a wide range of topics, without overmuch political bias... somewhere we can all come and be a community of people with different views, all getting along on our search for truth.

While ignoring certain behaviours that we do not like might be effective at lessening their impact on our day, it does us no good if members like yourself feel driven away from commenting on the matters at hand! You rock! You should raise your voice with pride and state your case with freedom!

Something has to be done about this sort of thing, if members are genuinely getting to the point where the rot is so vast that they cannot see the point any more! This goes back to the quality issue as well! If our wiser members are abandoning the idea of posting on serious topics, then how can we expect the content quality to remain high here? This is all very troubling indeed!

a reply to: TrueBrit

I can't say that I disagree with anything you've said...

But for myself personally, perhaps I'm to the point of becoming battle weary ? That's not to say that I don't get a burst of renewed energy every so often and jump in to call a spade, a spade... but it seems to be getting less and less frequent as of late.

And I suspect this may be the case for many other veteran members here (I'm not quite as veteran, so I can only imagine their weariness of it all). I've noticed that a number of members with whom I thoroughly enjoyed reading their posts over the years have somewhat backed off and/or disappeared as well. Of course there could be a myriad of reasons for this, but my suspicion is that it may be for the very reasons that bring us to this thread of yours today.

I would love to stand side by side holding sword and shield in hand with you defending the castle my fine feathered friend... but it seems to take a lot more 'moose juice' to give me the much needed energy to forge the battlefront these days.

*sigh*