Question to ANYONE on the Ferguson Protesters Side...And some facts!!

originally posted by: Septimus

And the other day had his store burned down......In Michael Browns memory of course.

originally posted by: blupblup
a reply to: thesmokingman

Well it's kind of a chicken and egg thing, no?
If you stop black people 10 times more often than you stop white people then it goes without saying that more will be arrested and charged.
People of all colour and creed break the law and carry things illegally... but if you stop one race far more frequently (10 times more) then it's likely that race will end up having higher crime rates than other races.

You don`t go looking for seashells in a desert,you go to a beach.It sounds like you`re saying that the police don`t try as hard to catch white criminals.
most people who are victims of crime will report the crime regardless of what color the criminal is.

The police just randomly stopping people and catching them in a crime is probably very low compared to the police actually looking for someone who has been reported for already committing a crime.
This brown guy would probably never have even been confronted by the police if someone hadn`t already called and reported a crime that was committed by someone matching his description.

The store owner probably reported that he was robbed by a black person so why would it make any sense for the police to stop and question white people about the robbery? it wouldn't.does that make the police racists? of course not.
if the store owner had said he was robbed by a white person would the police stop black people to question them about the robbery? of course not.

The parents of brown and the ferguson community seem incapably of admitting to themselves their own short comings and failures,so they blame the police for what happened,that seems to be true of all black communities.

They are saying that they don`t want the police to keep killing them,so what is their solution to the problem?
well there already is a guaranteed way to make sure it doesn`t happen again but it takes effort on their part and they don`t seem to want to put forth the effort.
They already have the power to stop this all they have to do is to raise their children to be law abiding,moral citizens.
They complain about the high crime rate in their neighbor hoods but it`s their children and their neighbor`s children who are committing the crimes,they are breeding and enabling the criminals that are victimizing them.They have more power to stop it than the government will ever have.

Do white neighborhoods have less crime because they have better police protection? no,they have less crime because there are fewer criminals there and more law abiding moral citizens.
Money has nothing to do with it,it costs nothing to teach your kids to obey the law and be moral.

originally posted by: blupblup
a reply to: thesmokingman

Well it's kind of a chicken and egg thing, no?
If you stop black people 10 times more often than you stop white people then it goes without saying that more will be arrested and charged.
People of all colour and creed break the law and carry things illegally... but if you stop one race far more frequently (10 times more) then it's likely that race will end up having higher crime rates than other races.

In area's that are for arguments sake lets say.....80% black, 10% white, 5% Asian, 5% other.........
Don't it seem logical that the majority of the crime would be black and black arrests would be higher?
Blacks would be stopped a vast majority of the time because that's who 80% of the population is in those area's.

The town I live near has a black population of .05%, there are 3 black families in town and about 20 people.
They do not get harassed by people OR cops in town. In all fairness though they are good people who hold good jobs, their educated, don't sell drugs or belong to gangs (of which there are none here).

They aren't seen as "black people" they are just part of the community.

They go to PTA meetings, vote, work, go to school, shop and don't run the streets and treat everyone else like they owe them something.

originally posted by: thesmokingman
You also have to realize that Brown could have just as easily been shot and killed by the store owner that he robbed that day. I know a lot of shop owners that will/have defended their businesses with lethal force. I know I would have. If I were the owner of a business and someone came in trying to rob me and rough me up, I guarantee I would have shot them and would have been WELL within my rights in doing so.

Boy, wouldn't that have save a lot of problems in hind sight.

Since the store owner was non-white and not a cop the story would have been nowhere close to what it is now.

a reply to: thesmokingman

The police should keep in mind that their actions and behaviors are observed with a microscope by society from youth...

Example when I was young, officer friendly came to my elementary school and gave the first impression to others and I that was positive, that the primary and only functions of police is to protect and serve...

After growing into a adolescent / preteen and then teen and hearing all the preexistent talk of how police acted in past riots like the WATTS & Rodney King causing riots from elders who distrusted the police and also after certain personal experiences those acts began to remove that positive image of officer friendly, reality began to set in. That some NOT ALL but some of the police lack compassion and allow the POWER to get to their egos which can then trickle down into dangerous if not deadly acts & behaviors.

So it seems that in order for there to be better respect established for the police by those they are said to protect and serve including the African American tax paying communities there needs to be a BALANCE made.

This balance can be established if some police stop following the group thinks embedded from past police who may not of been the most balanced in mind but were teachers and influencers...
And these AWARE police then take lead and make example of themselves for other police to follow and study.
There cannot be racist undertones
There CANNOT be ANY gang like mentality. Mentality where say one cop does wrong and another cop or cops cover up for them. Because even if the cover up works it still teaches other cops observing that its ok for them to do as they wish because they know that BLUE LINE wont be crossed. And so when the next cop does something extreme he & expects it to be overcovered by his law enforcement connections from other cops to District attorneys and sometimes Judges...

This further pushes the negativity within the subconsciousness of those police who may be in the middle with deciding to do right or doing whats right for the team. Which keeps the snowball affect going. And as the snowball affect is observed by the populace some of the populace continues to step further away from believing this force said to protect and serve is here to protect them. And eventually all they see is weaponized individuals who WONT SNITCH on each other and WILL protect themselves first? Why at the same time wanting others to speak on violent crimes they may of observed?

See the issue, again 1 is NOT saying all cops are bad in no way, because consciously many have been scanned and just want to have carriers in the fields of protection for others and take care of their families with leo jobs. But some do seek the shield and the blue line of secrecy as a way to protect them as they carry out hidden malevolent attitudes and acts of ignorance upon others spanning all races.

This makes the benevolent in behavior police look bad because these malevolent cops are allowed to carry out certain negative energy generating deeds and nothing is done to stop them, it seems... 1 does not know the answer as to how these issues can be eliminated but the negative acts just makes people distrust police so much that it rolls over to next generations.

As for the communities at hand that have issues with police, RACIAL issues do to them automatically associating any ignorance with and observed by police to race and not psychological issues. These communities NEED to get their minds together place some consistent funding into purchasing LEGAL teams/groups that can be on stand by when something extreme malevolent and ignorant occurs in their neighborhoods. And if something illegitimate occurs the legal teams are called in to find TRUTH and objective data on the circumstances at hand (and the legal teams report to the communities in meetings).

These legal teams then speak for the communities of interest NO NEED TO RIOT OR DESTROY THEIR COMMUNITIES just contact the prepurchased legal teams and send them into the communities of unrest to evaluate and observe the issues.

The legal teams which would be basically a group of good well defined lawyers from various disciplines state and federal criminal and civil (and maybe even past or present police if it doesn't cause them issues speaking on the brethren objectively), then take care of any potential Criminal or Civil cases associated as best they can. And due to the people of the community picking these teammates the people of the community MUST accept what objective data is presented as well as the final outcomes of the procedures and move on...
By doing this a voice is better established for the communities of interest to share their facts & opinions as well as a legal force is designed that can represent them when needed. This saves the communities from being destabilized, torn apart and rioted within why getting the primary goals accomplished of verifying TRUTH.

This is a Sapiens Sapiens issue that carries racial undertones at times but is more ignorance based and influenced as there is brutality done to various races and ethnic groups by various races and ethnic groups of police GLOBALLY... So its more then what some may be perceiving sadly who are only stuck at first base seeing racial division who cannot see the psychological issues associated with SOME police. For some police are good and others well not so good.

If this process was to work there would be legal teams present in many of the said problem areas where more police brutality has been recorded and is said to exist. Why at the same time keeping something deep in the minds of those potential malevolent police subconscious to think twice about extremely ill acts of ignorance upon certain communities due to them knowing now that a team just a legal as them exist that will be interested in their intents. If it works and lowers the amount of police brutality and negative persona carried by police, this will began to eliminate the questionable feelings some have about police due to less malevolent acts making them look so bad, which may allow for trust? to be established by communities and the police. Further helping communities that ARE IN NEED of HELP but due to distrust of police cannot or will not reach out to police for help. Its a large process to overcome but its not impossible EA*RTH, just got to separate the WHEAT from the CHAFF...

NAMASTE*******
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA

a reply to: thesmokingman

clarification 1 is on no side...

a reply to: thesmokingman

Thanks so much for asking, not that I'm "on a side" as you put it. Police could in my own experience:
1. Police could treat people in their community as "one of their own" instead of "us vs. them" and suspect until proven innocent. If a fellow cop does something bad, they should be reprimanded by the officers who see them do that kind of thing.
2. End BS charges which include "resisting arrest", "disorderly conduct", and "disobeying a lawful order". People are supposed to follow laws not random commands of some smart-ass cop I'm sorry to say. If someone is breaking the law then they don't need a second BS charge of "disobeying a lawful order"... just charge them with breaking the law, the end! Resisting arrest should not be punished. Its a natural human reaction to avoid being hurt, so lets not punish people for following basic human instinct. And finally the term "disorderly conduct" is a total garbage charge with no merit.
3. Stop hassling people who are not causing problems. People have a right to put whatever substances the want in their own bodies and they have a right to sell whatever substances they want to consenting adults. Stop victimless "crimes". Just doing your job should include as a police officer, not harassing people who are not causing harm. That is part of you job in my opinion and if a supervisor tells you otherwise then correct them and let them know they can have another officer attack people for "crimes" with no victims.
4. Put and end to "disorderly conduct" punishments. Sorry but things out of order shouldn't be a crime. The idea of "disturbing the peace" is simply not specific enough to be codified. Personal opinions are not fit for law books! Ever!
5. Instead of being trained to escalate violence, they could be trained to de-escelate violence. I saw first-hand where an officer used extreme force in response to a simple and obvious request to stop invading personal space. It happens all the time where police thing and can physically attack people for insufficient cause. I'm sick of soft-on-crime panzy Republicans sympathizing with criminal cops. If someone commits a crime that is a problem that needs to stop, and yeah including when a police officer does it.
6. After an officer shoots an unarmed or disarmed suspect and they start running, they should keep a bit of distance for a while and try to reduce the violence instead of adding to it. So if they come at the cop, the cop should try running away while letting the person know they will be given a chance to surrender peacefully without being further harmed. If you shoot someone twice, it seems surprising you'd then move in so fast as to subdue them further. The fact is the officer should have kept at least 10 feet from the guy and told him he needed immediate medical care and would help him get to the hospital. I mean really, you shoot someone twice, and if you go at them again they will assume it is because you intend to MURDER them. Which is what did happen by self-fulfilling prophecy. The cop just shot the guy and then moves in for further damage? Fool! No, tell them very loudly they need medical care and have other things to worry more about staying alive then the charges they face.

It is admitted that at one point the teen did run away and that was the officers chance to de-escalate the situation. And yes it takes a high standard of professionalism to not attack a guy further than necessary who just punched you in the face.
7. Instead of randomly attacking people when a police has a bad day such as people who look too poor to afford a lawyer, police officers could pursue other ways of improving their day. That goes back to the us vs. them mentality. I don't think officers are beat the crap out of each other after all.

Fact: If people expected police to be NICE to them after they surrender, then gee maybe they'd have an incentive to surrender. But after you hit a cop what people expect is to be KILLED IN COLD BLOOD. So yeah the guy probably did lunge at the officer because he thought the cop would continue to shoot him... which may or may not be true and may or may not have actually happened in the very case in question. I've experienced nothing but a cold hostility from any urban cop so I would totally expect them to randomly shoot me dead if I hit them in the face.

I know people who were hit in the face but they didn't kill the person who hit them! Fist fights are very common. Whats uncommon is shooting someone dead after being hit your self.

You can`t demand respect you have to earn it, rioting and looting isn`t going to earn you any respect, raising your children to be law abiding productive citizens will earn you respect. assisting the police in solving crimes in your neighborhood will earn you respect.making false statements to protect criminals won`t earn you any respect.

you won`t be given any respect if you won`t give it.

a reply to: thesmokingman

American cops have a way bigger change of getting killed as to police in other countries, so they are on edge way too much. Even in my country with something like 13 times less of a change to get shot they have pressure problems.

And that`s the reason they shoot way too quick, and as long as the change of getting killed doesn`t come down, the problem with cops shooting too quickly will stay.

a reply to: thesmokingman

Yup, keep using the racial wall to deflect from the fact that cops are now justified in killing anyone, pretty much anytime.

The cop cried? At least he gets to go home.

It amazes me that the line is now at "what is justifiable" when a cop kills someone.

Not "did they have to kill"; not "were they in imminent danger".

No. Can we "justify" it.

So long as the goal line keeps moving, any cop killing will be justified.

originally posted by: Tardacus
You can`t demand respect you have to earn it, rioting and looting isn`t going to earn you any respect, raising your children to be law abiding productive citizens will earn you respect. assisting the police in solving crimes in your neighborhood will earn you respect.making false statements to protect criminals won`t earn you any respect.

you won`t be given any respect if you won`t give it.

Cops killing people on a daily basis, also, does not earn respect.

Goes both ways.

If you want every police officer to carry a gun, then expect innocent people to be shot by them. Because like it or not, humans are fallible. Only if they have no gun can you prevent such tragic mistakes.

(thankfully I live in a country where no-one, not even police officers, carry guns)

MeanwhiIe those rioting are the scum of this Earth (no surprise with Christmas approaching that Toys-R-Us was raided) - they have no respect for the law, no respect for other people, no respect for themselves, no respect for their families, and especially have no respect for Brown. I would shoot the whole lot of them. And enter them in the Darwin Awards

originally posted by: AndyMayhew
If you want every police officer to carry a gun, then expect innocent people to be shot by them. Because like it or not, humans are fallible. Only if they have no gun can you prevent such tragic mistakes.

(thankfully I live in a country where no-one, not even police officers, carry guns)

MeanwhiIe those rioting are the scum of this Earth (no surprise with Christmas approaching that Toys-R-Us was raided) - they have no respect for the law, no respect for other people, no respect for themselves, no respect for their families, and especially have no respect for Brown. I would shoot the whole lot of them. And enter them in the Darwin Awards

So, let me get this straight: its acceptable to shoot unarmed people, because "it happens".

But theres no excuse for rioting?

I swear, logic left this planet quite some time ago....

originally posted by: captaintyinknotsSo, let me get this straight: its acceptable to shoot unarmed people, because "it happens".

No, it is not acceptable. But if you give everyone a gun, it is inevitable that it will happen

But theres no excuse for rioting?

I am not aware of any excuse for rioting.

But next time the police shoot someone I will burn your house down. Okay?

It's real easy.

1. Better Police training. Martial Arts, Tazer, Baton/Stick and more importantly. De-escalating situations with words.
2. Better PR. I understand the police get a bad rap sometimes and I'm at the forefront of that! Read some of my posts about the police but...Where is the PR for the police? Why aren't police departments trying to portray a better image?
3. Police/Community building. Actually, this should be #1. In a community where the police are seen as partners, where people know their names, and there are events like national night out. Ferguson would not have blown up like this if the relationship between the community and the police was good.
4. Demilitarization of police and less use of force. You could say Michael Brown deserved to be shot or that rioters deserve a strong police response. But what about all the reporters getting maced, arrested, the no standing still edicts...the indimidation tactics.. That wasn't needed.
5. Root cause/prevention. What else is up in Ferguson? How about no minorities on the police force...no community leaders that are black...no anti gang unit...no youth programs...etc. I just threw some ideas out. but ...start there and move on.
6. Better screening of officers higher standards of hiring. Lot's of people need jobs these days.. Good people with hi character, experience and education.

7. Compassion. A community feels wronged and that Justice has not been served. Have some compassion. If it was your son that got killed, you'd be hot too. Now add on all the community issues and the police issues and the perceived racism.

Really easy. None of this costs much money...most of it's free.

originally posted by: AndyMayhew

originally posted by: captaintyinknotsSo, let me get this straight: its acceptable to shoot unarmed people, because "it happens".

No, it is not acceptable. But if you give everyone a gun, it is inevitable that it will happen

But theres no excuse for rioting?

I am not aware of any excuse for rioting.

But next time the police shoot someone I will burn your house down. Okay?

ROFl. Classic.

You shrug off cops killing, because its inevitable, but people outraged by it are the scum of the earth.

BTW, feel free to come and try anything around my house. You wont like the outcome

a reply to: thesmokingman

I guess in this day and age, it's politically incorrect to point out facts that are true when it comes to race. Lets face it, there is a lot of crime and violence in the black community. The statistics clearly point that out. When Blacks complain there is a disproportionately large number of blacks incarcerated, it only means one thing, you're raising your kids without any sense of respect or consideration for your fellow man.

I'm going to say something that I'm sure most people will agree but won't admit to, whenever there is a local crime reported on the nightly news, before they actually show the person who was arrested, how many of you can honestly say to yourself, "I bet he's probably black." Nine times out of ten, sure enough it ends up being an African American!

Yet I have to wonder if the African American community can be honest with themselves and realize they have a problem with crime in their communities. The Ferguson rioting and looting clearly shows that. What's sad, is they completely ignore the respect of the very kid they're protesting about, and than commit crimes against their own black community! How can they expect anyone to respect that kind of behavior?

Stop the glorification of being a thug, organize and stop the violence and gang related drug dealing in your neighborhoods, teach your kids the importance of education and hard work and be considerate and respect your fellow man. Maybe when that's under control, the overwhelming bad apples in the black community will no longer be the stereotype that other races will judge you by.

Stop making excuses and blaming whites. Be honest with yourselves and take responsibility for the reasons why a disproportionate number of young blacks are being incarcerated and why black children perform at the bottom in education across this country. It's a fact that a lack of education goes hand in hand with crime.

As with everything in life, to gain respect your have to give it.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: AndyMayhew

originally posted by: captaintyinknotsSo, let me get this straight: its acceptable to shoot unarmed people, because "it happens".

No, it is not acceptable. But if you give everyone a gun, it is inevitable that it will happen

But theres no excuse for rioting?

I am not aware of any excuse for rioting.

But next time the police shoot someone I will burn your house down. Okay?

ROFl. Classic.

You shrug off cops killing, because its inevitable, but people outraged by it are the scum of the earth.

BTW, feel free to come and try anything around my house. You wont like the outcome

Outraged by it? I expect that. I am too.

But just because I am outraged does not mean I steal and burn property and attack people

There is NO excuse for rioting and those involed are worse than the Cop and worse than anyone.

And if you cannot see that then I pity you, your family and friends.

originally posted by: blupblup
a reply to: thesmokingman

Well it's kind of a chicken and egg thing, no?
If you stop black people 10 times more often than you stop white people then it goes without saying that more will be arrested and charged.
People of all colour and creed break the law and carry things illegally... but if you stop one race far more frequently (10 times more) then it's likely that race will end up having higher crime rates than other races.

Blacks are 13% of the population of the U.S. and commit around 50% of all violent crime. The excuse of "more blacks" being stopped, I would think, doesn't apply to getting stopped versus violent crime rate. If you want to use that excuse for drug charges then do so but for violent crime that just doesn't fly.

Also I've seen many time people referring to lack of community leaders or youth programs???? This is the responsibility of the PARENT. I don't have a community leader where I live and there are no youth programs because we take care of that individually as parents and adults.

originally posted by: JackWax

originally posted by: blupblup
a reply to: thesmokingman

Well it's kind of a chicken and egg thing, no?
If you stop black people 10 times more often than you stop white people then it goes without saying that more will be arrested and charged.
People of all colour and creed break the law and carry things illegally... but if you stop one race far more frequently (10 times more) then it's likely that race will end up having higher crime rates than other races.

Blacks are 13% of the population of the U.S. and commit around 50% of all violent crime. The excuse of "more blacks" being stopped, I would think, doesn't apply to getting stopped versus violent crime rate. If you want to use that excuse for drug charges then do so but for violent crime that just doesn't fly.

That's statement seems to be false. It doesn't add up to the FBI statistics.

The FBI would know.

Here. Direct link.

www.fbi.gov...

You seem to be saying that 50% off all black people are criminals when you state it like that. I've worked with, around, under and for black people. Most of them were amazingly honest, hard working and ethical people.