Ferguson Officer Wilson Claims Punched in Car But Has Right Side Facial Bruise

a reply to: MaryStillToe

Mary Still Toe, because you want the injury to
Officer Wilson to be impossible to have occurred
then your desire is fulfilled.

Poof, from your staunch and rigid perspective it is so.

You can imagine anything that you wish, and even discuss and argue and
explain any thing that you wish.

Reality does not even have to stand in your way if you do not want it to.

Look either the guy was punched on the right side of his face with a left hand. Or he was struck with a balled up right hand that lashed out at him in a back hand motion. Both are extremely plausible. Especially the backhand if they were in a struggle.

Here's a way to get a good idea of the mechanics. Go to a poll or something similar. Stand with your right foot forward. Lean on poll with the meaty part of your right forearm. Drag balled up right fist in a slashing motion to your side. Presto. You just bashed the poll pretty good. Using a totally natural movement. SO natural it's found in just about every martial art.

OR try this. Have a friend restrain your right arm in any manner he wishes while he''s standing in front of you. If you were in a struggle what would be your immediate subconscious response. Punch/lash out with your free arm. Guess what it's the left one. Either way you'll most likely hit the other guy right in his lower right jaw.

No mystery there.

originally posted by: butcherguy
Here is a portion of his testimony to the Grand Jury where he says that Brown had his right hand on his service weapon

I read the testimony. That's not what I asked.

I must say that it is NOT clear in this section of testimony that he said that Brown hit him with his left hand.

No, it isn't. Because he didn't say that, even though several in this thread insisted that he did. He actually SAID it was Browns right hand.

My only point is that this contortion of body parts in the open window of a cruiser would be pretty difficult. I personally think it's a lie. If Brown hit him, it was with his left hand. Catching Wilson in a lie would prove that he's willing to lie under oath. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying he acted inappropriately or anything at all. I'm thinking he did lie, though. And that could open a whole can of worms.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
If Brown hit him, it was with his left hand. .

you can say that all day.
you can scream it from the roof tops.
that does not make it fact

a reply to: Grovit

True. But Wilson saying it doesn't make it fact, either...

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

REREAD MY LAST POST. It might make some sense and explain how zero body contortions are needed to land that strike. Try out what I posted, see how it works.

Also, good luck in a altercation remembering exactly how you got hit. The cop probably doesn't remember which hand he was struck with.

I know people who have struck me 12 times in 2 seconds in sparring using rapid flurries of strikes. I'll be damned if I even realized I've been hit 12 times. Sometimes it's all a blur.

I am 6'4" 210 pounds. How about I stand outside of a car, have a couple of my buddies with me, and we can record these scenarios that "happened" to see if they are even possible. Being 6'4" I don't see it being that possible to bend over, and have a good enough swing to come through the diagonal side of the window and connect with the face. I feel as this would be a good way to prove or debunk this story.
a reply to: Grovit

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

REREAD MY LAST POST.

I read it before I posted. Now, you read mine. I'm not saying it couldn't have happened. I'm suggesting Wilson may have lied about it. If it was a blur, he should have said it was a blur. If he's willing to lie about being hit by Brown's right hand (because Brown was right handed and it would have packed a bigger punch), he could be lying about anything.

I'm really amazed at how people are just SO willing to believe Wilson's every word and also SO willing to discount what some of the witnesses said... I think that says a whole lot.

I don't have a clue what happened that day, but if Wilson is lying once, there could be more lies in his testimony. There could be a whole lot more.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: Grovit

True. But Wilson saying it doesn't make it fact, either...

well then nothing wilson says can be taken as fact
nothing any witness says can be taken as fact

unless it was all on super clear HD video nothing can be taken as fact....

good thing the grand jury used ALL the evidence and forensics to come to a decision i guess

If ten eye witnesses said the officer was wearing a cap and the cop said he wasn't then the PD would take the officers word and that's the end of that.

Insisting otherwise will only get you arrested or threats about XYZ if you continue to speak out because these days the police are making it up as they go along and no one, but no one has the power to investigate them and clearly internal investigations don't work which puts the police and judges above the law with the politicians and bankers.

The Apple is rotten to the core IMO

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I largely agree that we don't exactly know what happened. I am just following occams razor and agreeing with the story as it was said to have gone down because it's the most plausible. As far as him getting struck through the open car window with either left or right hand it is 100% plausible. As its the simplest plausible explanation.

He could have been falsifying things. But as I see it it strongly does not suggest so.

As far as there being no damage indicative of a right handed person throwing a right punch. Thats complete baseless speculation on your part. I'm right handed. Guess what. I hit hardest with my left hand. Also, just because it's a punch doesn't mean it's all that destructive. Punches are less powerful than people realize when they are thrown incorrectly. I'm willing to bet Brown was no golden gloves winner.

People have very inaccurate speculation on how violence goes down especially when it's in the nature of a physical confrontation. I would throw out the degree of damage received between the assailant and the victim in your speculation. It really proves very little to base things off of that. Ever watched a bunch of jerks brawl with each other in the street. Big dudes will throw tons of punches most of em don't land solidly and very little damage is incurred to either side except maybe a bloody lip. But have a pro throw a punch and it's one hit n quit cuase the other guy is on his way to the hospital suffering cerebral edema.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

I'm really amazed at how people are just SO willing to believe Wilson's every word and also SO willing to discount what some of the witnesses said... I think that says a whole lot.

I'm really amazed at how people are SO willing to throw out the judgement of a grand jury's findings who happened to sift through a ton of witness testimony and evidence before coming to a conclusion based on the totality because it doesn't sit with THEIR belief system... I think that says a whole lot.

a reply to: MaryStillToe


Im sorry,

But no matter what you say, or how LOGICAL it is, and how ILLOGICAL officer wilsons story is, you will continue to see biased posters using terms and phrases like this :

" 400 pound 7 foot tall monster "
" vicious thug out for blood "
" ex cage fighter "
" trained in negro martial arts "

Yet when you point out that the officer received as much damage as a baby slap they say :

" naahh it wouldnt leave that much damage "
" wilsons skin doesnt bruise because hes a hero "
" white skin doesnt damage easily"

Your just wasting your time my friend, ........ Can you guess the average age, sex, and race of the average poster ??

I sure as hell can.

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: MaryStillToe
Until just moments ago, I refrained from making any judgements on whether I thought Wilson's account of the events seemed reasonable. However, after reviewing his injury photos online tonight, his bruises seem to contradict his story ( at least to me).

When I am sitting in the driver's seat of my car, the left side of my face is facing the driver's side window. So if Michael Brown reached into the driver's side window to assault Wilson, how would his fist reach Wilson's lower right jaw.

A bruise on the left side or even the front of his face (if turned to talk to him) would seem most reasonable.

Am I imagining things or does not make any sense whatsoever?

Uhhh wrong.

His testimony was the Brown swung with his left hand on his right cheek because he grabbed Brown's RIGHT hand and had it pinned.

If you would have read the testimony and watched the interview BEFORE you posted, this thread would not EXIST.

I read the testimony and watched the video and nothing has changed. His story still doesn't add up.

He actually claims Brown struck him at two different points. The first time he claims Brown was using his right hand and that he put up his arms to shield himself and turned away, which sounds totally reasonable. He says Brown landed a shot, but not a full shot because he was shielding. So we can safely assume that didn't cause the bruise on the right side of his face. However, when asked what hand Brown was carrying the cigarillos in, he says it was also in Browns right hand. The questioner then asks if there were any damaged cigarillos inside or near the car afterwards and Wilson says no. Apparently Browns punched him with the same hand holding the cigarillos. No discrepancy there right?

However, then he claims that in the middle of this savage attack Brown stopped to hand over the cigarillos to someone Wilson couldn't see. The cigarillos then leave Browns right hand to his left hand in order to hand them over to someone else. When Wilson finally gets the courage to open his eyes because the beating has momentarily stopped, he decides to pin Brown's right arm.

Wilson claims he wanted to use his left hand to open his car door and get out, so now he is pinning Browns right arm while seated inside of his vehicle with his own right hand, right?

Just picture that for a moment. What exactly is he pinning Browns right arm against? He doesn't exactly show this well in his interview. He starts to make a gesture to illustrate what he means but starts to look uncertain of himself, vaguely motions to the left, and then just stops trying.

So according to him, he pins Browns right arm with his own right hand when suddenly Brown swings his left at him. He never explicitly says how Brown got free, but we will have to assume it was that one good punch that caused the single bruise.

After the punch, he is not even sure what Brown is doing. Maybe he is punching, maybe grabbing... (or maybe Brown is trying to give a massage, right?)

The whole time, I can’t tell you if he was swinging at me or grabbing me or pushing me or what, but there was just stuff going on and I was looking down figuring out what to do.

As the attack continues, Wilson uses this time to begin a well thought out and logical exercise on what he can do to help himself.

Asp? Nope, can't extend and swing good inside of car. Flashlight? Nope, it's on the passenger side. Of course, every good cop considers using a flashlight during a savage attack, yes?

He even considers using mace, but says it wouldn't have been effective because Browns hands were shielding his own face?

I considered using my mace, however, I wasn’t willing to sacrifice my left hand, which is blocking my face, to go for it. I couldn’t reach around on my right to get it, and if I would have gotten it out, the chances of it being effective were slim to none.

His hands were in front of his face, it would have blocked the mace from hitting him in the face and if any of it got on me, I know what it does to me and I would have been out of the game.

Hmm, why would Brown be shielding his face at the same time he was viciously throwing savage punches? No discrepancy there, right?

What do I do not to get beaten inside my car? I remember having my hands up and I thought to myself, you know, what do I do?

So to summarize, he alleges he was scared he was going to be beaten to death. He had his hands up and arms blocking a vicious attack. Where are his defensive wounds to his hands and arms? None are visible in the pictures or mentioned in his medical report.

He only sustained one bruise to the right side of his face, but was viciously beaten in the drivers seat and feared for his life. What I understand from all this is that his story and bruises seem do not seem credible in any way.

a reply to: MaryStillToe

First of all, at least you are thinking about these issues in a critical manner. I see many people attacking you personally for not thinking about things that may seem 'open and shut' to others. But, I think it is better to question and be sure, then to just assume what others view as apparent.

None of us were there, so we do not know exactly what went down. I think the best thing to do is compare Michael Brown's friend testimony with the officers. Then look at any differences between the two, if there are. Remember also that the officer was driving an SUV patrol vehicle so there is a bit of difference between that and a standard patrol car.

But carry on thinking about these things and do not let others detract from analyzing facts. Yes, it is odd that a violent attack produces essentially no bruises and the bruise locations are opposite what one would expect from a 5-year old being manhandled by hulk hogan.

"Bruise." Lol, I've seen worse bruises from sleeping on a pillow.

a reply to: safetymeeting

how about this?
i dont really care what you think is possible.
i know what is possible

we dont know how much of browns body was in the car. we dont know how close to the window wilsons head was and which direction he was looking.

i know the things i am saying are possible.
im not saying thats how it went down. just saying it is a possibility

believe it. dont. try and debunk it....whatever
leave me out....i dont care that much about what you think

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: atlscribe

you can get hit pretty damn hard in the face and there not be a ton of bruising. It appears that Wilson's bruise is along his jawline...the jaw is a "soft part" of the face, meaning that it gives and absorbs much of the force of the blow whereas, say, the forehead won't move at all and there will be much more damage to the underlying tissue. Same goes with with the cheekbone...no give, so the damage to the skin and the bruising will be much more visually apparent.

But this in no way means that a strong punch to the jaw doesn't do as much, if not more, damage to the individual, even if the visible bruising isn't as intense.

We are going by Darren Wilson's own account of the story. He literally feared that the next punch from Michael Brown could have ended his life. The physical evidence on his face does not add up to the damage supposedly meted out on him by Michael Brown. There's no swelling, there's no fracture, no visible cuts; just minor bruising that could have just as easily been sustained by Michael Brown fending himself off from Darren Wilson attempting to pull him into the car as eyewitness accounts state. He is clearly sensationalizing the scale of the physical altercation to make his actions justifiable.

I'm not picking a side here but hands up in front of face sure sounds a lot like a typical fighting guard.

Slaps and forearm bashes often don't leave any bruises. I've been knocked out by a blow before and never had any swelling or bruises afterwards. But I was indeed knocked out cold and could have been victimized any which way afterwards by the person who did it if they had wanted to. Just cause the person doesn't have any visible damage doesn't mean they aren't taking damage.

I had my shoulder torn and dislocated once in a sparring match. I was instantly incapable of fighting back or even flailing uselessly. To an outside observer nobody would have known that my right arm was nearly useless for 18 months. No swelling, no bruises. But certainly damaged badly.

So outward signs of injury don't accurately relay the degree of damage actually incurred. Take a shaving cut for instance. Bleeds like a mofo. Take a common injury that people die from each year. cerebral edema. Plenty of people die each year in hospitals from cerebral edema with no outward signs that they had received a life terminating blow to the head. no bruises no outward swelling. Happens to kids playing high school football each year. happens to healthy people walking down the sidewalk and tripping.

And yes any blow in a altercation could potentially end your life. I've ducked right into hooks that i didn't see coming and thought to my self. damn I'm sure as F lucky that was my sparring partner and not some dude on a street that just landed that or I would have been screwed. Ever walked way from a physical altercation and had chilling flashbacks about how that could have gone so very differently just then and that your life was this close to being altered forever either from being maimed, loosing all your teeth being disfigured from a blow. landing in jail, back injuries n broken bones, being crippled for the rest of your life. Don't laugh at that notion either. A guy in my old neighborhood growing up got into a fight that escalated quickly. He took a shot to his left cheekbone than crushed it in. His face was disfigured for life after wards. He was already a unblessed person in the looks and personality department and probably very lonely. He spent about 3 months living with his new life and then committed suicide. The very next blow could be the one that changes your life forever. Either immediately or in the long run.

SO again. Unless you are right there getting wailed on you really don't know how you will feel or how threatened you will feel at that moment. A 300 pound man coming after me throwing punches. If I have a weapon I'll use it. I wouldn't take a risk like that either.

a reply to: IntastellaBurst

Take a swing at a cop and miss.
Don't even connect with his face... completely miss him.
See if he views you as a threat.

In fact.... just walk up to a cop and push your finger into his chest, you will most likely be arrested for assaulting a police officer.

So the whole thing about whether Wilson got punched 'hard enough' means nothing.

Especially when you factor in the evidence that shows that Brown had his hand on Wilson's pistol inside the police vehicle.