If Jesus Christ Never Existed as some claim, who then said these amazing and awe inspiring words?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
DISCLAIMER: There are just my thoughts, and opinions.

I am an atheist, and I do not dispute that Yeshua (Jesus's real name, btw) was real.

He was a man who taught love and tolerance (mostly), and was persecuted, and summarily executed by people who were afraid of change.

I do not believe he had divine provenience, or was a messenger of any Deity. He was just a man, with message.

His message is what should be preached in churches. One of unfailing love for your fellow man, and the selflessness of being charitable. That message today is overshadowed in churches by the hellfire and damnation "God" of the old testament, who was even by self admittance jealous and petty. (That also begs the question, how can a being who created the entire universe, is far beyond our own human comprehension, and loves every single one of his creations be jealous and petty? If god is above man, why does he have human failings?)

I digress. Yeshua was real, his message was real, his god is not.

Ironically, hippies tend to preach most of the same ideas that Jesus (if he existed) represented but the primarily-religious right wingers have an unwavering hatred for the hippy culture.

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: AlephBet
a reply to: edmc^2

The Father (Elohim).

John 12

For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

Or, John 14:10 "The words I speak are not my own, but my Father who lives in me does his work through me."

Or, Matthew 10:20 "For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you."

Or 1 Peter 4:11 "If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God"

Would the real God allow someone else to speak on his behalf? Likely not. I doubt that we have heard from the true God, except through nature's character. After examining ever scripture I can find, it is less and less likely the true God has spoken to us. Yahweh's character of bloodshed is not a likely candidate, and Moses spoke the words of Yahweh.

originally posted by: Ove38

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: edmc^2

Jesus, if he existed was a liar.

John 14:13-14
And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.

John 15:7
If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.

No, He's Not!

Everything I ask for in his stead, using his words, happens

How many sick babies were healed after you prayed for them? How many people have you actually fed, clothed, housed, through your prayers to Jesus?

a reply to: edmc^2

The Buddha (who lived in BC times) also talked about having compassion for all beings (also known as: "Love thy enemies") and being generous (also known as: "go the extra mile" and "give to the one who asks of you").

The main teachings are universal. The stuff about marriage and the use of "salt" as a metaphor is cultural (obviously not all cultures will use the same exact metaphors or have the same exact views of marriage).

Also keep in mind that Mark and John don't have any "Sermon on The Mount".

Paul's Letter to The Romans was written before the four gospels, and it has similar teachings:

"Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not." - Romans 12:14

"Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head." - Romans 12:20

"Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good." - Romans 12:21

Also, Jesus did not write the Gospels, it was written based off of those who say they were eye witnesses. If you compare The Sermon in Matthew to Luke the words aren't exactly the same (some things are even changed a bit or left out, like how Luke also includes the "and woe to you who are..." during the beatitudes)

originally posted by: edmc^2
If Jesus Christ never existed, then who uttered these words?

~ ~ ~
Can anyone point to me who said the above if it wasn't Jesus Christ?

The person who wrote the gospels?

If Daenerys Targaryen didnt exist, then who said the words attributed to her in ASOIAF?

Yes, in all probability, if Jesus existed, he was illiterate...meaning he could neither read or write.

Many of the "Eye Witness" accounts were written 100 years after the so called Jesus died.

ITs called Fiction.......made up stories by Authors to gain money and fame.....just like nowdays.

Christians are aware that Every movie and Fiction novel is All from the mind of a man or woman?

Yes Harry Potter was all made up....even the names, dialog, scenes...everything.....

Much like the Bible.

a reply to: edmc^2

Wow, just wow! Are you really this naive?

originally posted by: Heruactic
a reply to: AnuTyr

Star to you sir.

Whoever tells me God wrote the bible will get the " Why are the names at the end of every passage?" "Why can it not just be 1 to 100 of basic rules what to do and how to be, with a signature - God ?" If its written by god let it say so.

yeah i don't think God refers to himself in Third person LOL could you imagine? hahaahahhaha

"Now go baptise yourself " God said as he finished writing this post.

a reply to: edmc^2

Why is there nothing written by Jesus himself? Why write down Jesus' sayings some 60 years after it happened? Why even write what was told to the speaker by someone else?
This is called 3rd degree of hear-say.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: edmc^2

The Buddha (who lived in BC times) also talked about having compassion for all beings (also known as: "Love thy enemies") and being generous (also known as: "go the extra mile" and "give to the one who asks of you").

The main teachings are universal. The stuff about marriage and the use of "salt" as a metaphor is cultural (obviously not all cultures will use the same exact metaphors or have the same exact views of marriage).

Also keep in mind that Mark and John don't have any "Sermon on The Mount".

Paul's Letter to The Romans was written before the four gospels, and it has similar teachings:

"Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not." - Romans 12:14

"Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head." - Romans 12:20

"Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good." - Romans 12:21

Also, Jesus did not write the Gospels, it was written based off of those who say they were eye witnesses. If you compare The Sermon in Matthew to Luke the words aren't exactly the same (some things are even changed a bit or left out, like how Luke also includes the "and woe to you who are..." during the beatitudes)

The romans also had acess to the silk road, Where do you think they got all those luxerious robes from?
Maybe the chinese religion had some influence on the making of Christianity but im not entirely sure.

They had all the philosphers, scrolls and tablets they could possibly need to forged an epic.

The bible is a collection of Epics some of them based on previous stories some of them fabricated along with it to tie the stories together.

But since we are talking about a specific group of people who created much of the base line for the new testament (Since of course they had the material with them to plagorize)

It's very unlikely this Jesus person even existed or that it even really matters.

It was the suposed brother of Jesus who set the whole thing up. He was the ring leader in the begining but his anti-authority attitude and mutiliation as well as theft of the Jewish doctrains. Ontop of the mountain anti-roman groups establishing and congrigating because poor people were learning how to read and write. Which means they could read all the insightful stuff the roman politicians themselves got hands on.

So it caused an uproar, which led to the romans having to go on a massive crusade to control and contain power.

It just happens that paul who was pretty much a legioneer with a militia of roman soldiers following him. Who just finished having a fight with the leader of the supposed first jesuits who lived at kumran. He tossed him down the temple steps. its all recorded in the clement reconitions when a lead church official went to jerusalem Clement. Who saw this fued between paul and James. Where paul gets mad and tosses him down the steps to leave him for dead. But he didn't die, his followered carried him to a house where he recovered for a night before traveling to kumran.

a reply to: edmc^2

Uh..people wrote those words. I'm sure it will come as a shock to you but people have written many books, some quite inspirational.

originally posted by: th3dudeabides
a reply to: edmc^2

Wow, just wow! Are you really this naive?

Wow, just wow! Are you really this naive?

originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: edmc^2

Uh..people wrote those words. I'm sure it will come as a shock to you but people have written many books, some quite inspirational.

Yet none can compare to the Bible!

a reply to: gort51

Yes, in all probability, if Jesus existed, he was illiterate...meaning he could neither read or write.

I guess you're not aware of this event:

[Luk 4:16-20 ESV] 16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up. And as was his custom, he went to the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and he stood up to read. 17 And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written, 18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, 19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor." 20 And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him.

Many of the "Eye Witness" accounts were written 100 years after the so called Jesus died.

Wrong. You need to read and study the entire Bible to be able to conclude what you said.

Hint: Jesus died at age 33 1/2 in 33 C.E. His apostles didn't have to wait that long to write the NT.


Here are the books and dates when the NT were written:


Writer:....................Writings Completed:........Writings:

Matthew...................... c. 41 C.E................ Matthew

Luke............................ c. 61 C.E................ Luke; Acts

James..........................before 62 C.E...........James

Mark...........................c. 60-65 C.E. .............Mark

Peter............................c. 64 C.E. ...............First and Second Peter

Paul.............................c. 65 C.E. .............First and Second Thessalonians;
........................................................... Galatians; First and Second Corinthians;
...........................................................Romans; Ephesians; Philippians; Colossians;
...........................................................Philemon; Hebrews; First and Second Timothy; Titus

Jude............................c. 65 C.E..............Jude


John.............................c. 98 C.E............. Revelation; John;
........................................................... First, Second, and Third John

ITs called Fiction.......made up stories by Authors to gain money and fame.....just like nowdays.

Wrong again. To quote Napoleon Bonaparte

“Jesus Christ has influenced and commanded His subjects without His visible bodily presence.”

Or as one writer said:

“All the armies that ever marched, and all the navies that ever were built, and all the parliaments that ever sat, all the kings that ever reigned, put together have not affected the life of man upon this earth as powerfully.”

Christians are aware that Every movie and Fiction novel is All from the mind of a man or woman?

Yet Christians are aware that the Bible IS from the mind of God.

Yes Harry Potter was all made up....even the names, dialog, scenes...everything..... Much like the Bible.

The former, yes the later - NO.

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: edmc^2

Uh..people wrote those words. I'm sure it will come as a shock to you but people have written many books, some quite inspirational.

Yet none can compare to the Bible!

Nah. The Bible can't come close to Homer's Odyssey and The Iliad.

a reply to: windword

or dantes inferno

a reply to: edmc^2

Or as one writer said: “All the armies that ever marched, and all the navies that ever were built, and all the parliaments that ever sat, all the kings that ever reigned, put together have not affected the life of man upon this earth as powerfully.”

Of course with a little rewording.

"All the armies that ever marched, and all the navies that ever were built, and all the parliaments that ever sat, all the kings that ever reigned, put together have not killed as many men upon this earth as God has."

And by the way, many of those armies, navies, parliaments and Kings have killed in His name. Blessed be the religions of death.

P

a reply to: edmc^2


None of these words are as you put it "amazing" and awe-inspiring" at all. Just a load of nonsense.

Each and every one of those silly quotes is just plain religious babble!!

a reply to: edmc^2

If only god was a better writer. Thousands more have written better.

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: edmc^2

Uh..people wrote those words. I'm sure it will come as a shock to you but people have written many books, some quite inspirational.

Yet none can compare to the Bible!

I guess that explains why the "Harry Potter" books have outsold the Bible.