Here's the lessons from Ferguson America

originally posted by: Vrill
Tell that to a 12 year old kid that was playing with a toy gun...
It seems US cops are just trigger happy, I can't remember a single incident where somebody here in Germany was shot dead by the police with doubt about the act.
It seems that US Policemen need some education on how to handle their guns and that not everything need deadly force.
Sometimes you can shoot at non lethal body parts first.... but heeeeey...

You talking about the 12 year old kid who had a realistic airsoft gun that he took the orange barrel end off that shows it's not a real gun and makes it even more realistic, and when the cops came up he pulled it out of his waistband?

Yeah, I would have probably shot him too. But it's an easy story to twist around and make the cops look bloodthirsty.

AND when you believe the other guy has a gun and is a deadly threat you don't "shoot at" non-lethal body parts. You shoot to kill.

a reply to: Tusks

Lots of deer and people receive fatal wounds and continue to run or fight for 5-10 seconds. Brown had one of these to the right upper chest. All the other shots were misses or flesh wounds.

I would think anyone who would have a gun pointed at them would automatically stop in their tracks. Did they ever check Michael Brown's body to see if he had any drugs in his system? Bull rushing a police officer with a gun doesn't sound like he was mentally sound. If he didn't have drugs in his system, than it was pure ignorance on his part.

a reply to: mwood

I love your picture! GO PACKERS

With that said, people need to use common sense when dealing with the Cops. Its REALLY easy to know and tell when someone is doing you wrong. So if you're dealing with a Cop, and hes being nice and courteous about his duty, then be nice and courteous back. Its not that hard to see and tell if someone is doing you wrong. Its also easy to tell when a Cop is going against rules and regulations when dealing with you. So use some damn common sense. Yeah, if you're being mistreated and you KNOW it, then do something about it. Otherwise, just shut the hell up and do what the Cop tells you. Nobody likes it when you're making their job harder than it needs to be.

And really, how many us will have a bad run in with a bad Cop in our lifetime? I'd venture a guess, not many of us here. So its an exception to the rule when it DOES happen.

a reply to: Vrill

The lesson from this should be that a jury has been in deliberation for 4 days.....waiting until DAYTIME hours wouldn't have hurt ANYONE....

The judge should have kept them until morning so that it is easier to see/witness any damage protests or further ABUSE from law enforcement. It would keep both sides in daylight if a free-for-all event were to happen.

a reply to: WeRpeons

If you truly think that pointing a weapon at somebody causes them to automatically stop, you have an incredibly myopic view of the world. Try reading about any one of the dozens of wars over the last few hundred years. If that doesn't dispell the notion that people "automatically" stop when they're faced with a weapon, it's because you choose to ignore reality.

a reply to: Shamrock6

It also really depends on the person in question too. So it becomes a "it depends on who you ask" type of scenario. If someone had a firearm aimed at me, I'd freeze and comply, especially if I did not know the person and what they were truly capable of. I would not try to turn and run and worry about a bullet finding my back side.

I bet if you looked at statistics (if such a thing exists) more people get shot and killed when trying to run than freezing and complying.

a reply to: WeRpeons

Ya he was stoned, and stoners are known for charging people with guns pointed at them

When the dead body has 6 small-to-medium-caliber wounds, all of them FACING the cop, I can tell you how it ended. Not how it started, mind you, but how it ended.

The cop panicked.

The latest research basically says that unless you have the force of a .45, or the fps of a .357, you will have to shoot at least twice over a period of more than 4 seconds in order to knock your assailant down. In other words, it takes 2 seconds for the human body to react in shock to the fact that it has been perforated by a bullet, and it takes at least 2 such shocks from a smaller caliber pistol (9mm) to halt a person against their intent.

Cops are trained to shoot slow enough to give your hits time to register in your targets body.

But this cop didn't do that. He got off 6 shots before his target could even fall over. He unloaded his weapon in fear of his life: not "bam... bam... bam... bam... bam... bam. But more along the lines of bambambambambambam!

When a badge-wearer has got murder on his mind (indeed, when anyone does), he is deliberate and focused on his outcome, not wanting to unload into an assailant and then be left holding an empty paperweight.

White cop was sure he was dying. The fact that so many of his panicked shots were (superficial) hits tells you they took place at close range.

I assume St. Louis has a hugely racist legal structure. But this cop wasn't shooting out of racism.

He was shooting out of abject terror.

a reply to: Vrill

As a LEO, if I ever found myself on the business end of another officer's weapon, you bet your sweet @ I'm gonna comply with his commands.

My point was that a criminal (and im not at all interested in debating whether brown was one or not with anybody) isn't very likely to have the same attitude you or I would when faced with that situation. Simply pointing a weapon at somebody isn't a guarantee they're going to stop and comply.

a reply to: tovenar

I wouldn't mind seeing your sources for some of your statements. I assume you're referring to hydrostatic shock, for starters? Or are you referring to the condition of shock itself?

As far as cops being trained to shoot and then give their assailant time to realize they've been shot....uh, what? Couple things immediately spring to mind, such as "double taps" or "fire four rounds, reload, fire four more rounds in 12 seconds or less" and so on.

Finally, I've never heard of a gang-banger who was concerned about ammo conservation. Quite often somebody who is looking to murder somebody is looking to dump as many rounds into that person as possible.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: tovenar

I wouldn't mind seeing your sources for some of your statements. I assume you're referring to hydrostatic shock, for starters? Or are you referring to the condition of shock itself?

As far as cops being trained to shoot and then give their assailant time to realize they've been shot....uh, what? Couple things immediately spring to mind, such as "double taps" or "fire four rounds, reload, fire four more rounds in 12 seconds or less" and so on.

Finally, I've never heard of a gang-banger who was concerned about ammo conservation. Quite often somebody who is looking to murder somebody is looking to dump as many rounds into that person as possible.

I was taught...
Shoot at the center of mass.. the torso/chest till the threat is over.
I was not made aware of giving the assailant time to react. Unless a new rule has been implemented since 1996.
Got myself killed many times on the F.A.T.S. ( firearms training simulator).

I'm not a cop. But early on in life I gave it a shot.
Found I was more effective as a Paramedic/FF.

Please feel free to add comment and opinion to the Grand Jury decision here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thank you,

Closed.