Ferguson Grand Jury: No Indictment for Darren Wilson in Michael Brown Shooting

I don't think I fully responded to this before. I apologize.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Greven

All it takes is practice. Grip the weapon and use any relatively flat surface to rake the slide against. The sights catch, slide moves. You can use your gun belt, leg, vest, whatever is available. You can also reload a weapon with one hand. One just needs training and practice.

The problem is, he testified:

Wilson: So I pulled the trigger, it just clicks that time. Without even looking, I just grab the top of my gun, the slide and I racked it, and I put my, still not looking just holding my hand up, I pulled the trigger again, it goes off.

Given that his argument is that Brown is fighting with him over his gun at this point, I do not see how it is possible for him to grab the top of his gun with one hand - presumably the right, as he is right-handed - and then shift from the slide to the grip and trigger as he claims in his testimony.

The only way I can see for his testimony to be accurate here is that he used both hands on the gun at this point: holding it normally or close to normally with his right hand, and racking the slide with his left hand. Consequently, this clashes a bit with his statements of protecting his face while firing blindly.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
The shell casings are about what I would expect from somebody who was shooting while backing up, which Wilson stated he was doing. His weapon is weaving left and right as he moves, as well as trying to track a target at the same time. Sigs can eject casings up to 15 feet in some cases. If Wilson began firing when Brown turned and then backpedaled from that point, I would expect to see a cone of shell casings from the initial firing point to the final firing point.

Given your larger estimation, I'll have to see what that does to the image and adjust that accordingly. I'm not very familiar with SIGs, but that seems rather far.

My concern is that it seems like Wilson might be moving more towards the south or even east a bit, while Brown's body and the blood positioning suggests he went northwest.

a reply to: Greven

It is pretty far, but it's not unheard of. There's a particular spring that, if it's not set correctly, can cause cases to eject farther than normal. Again, not implying that it's an every day thing and without ballistic tests on Wilson's weapon, there'd be no real way to know without seeing it happen.

I'm not sure how that picture is orientated so I can't really comment on directions on travel. What I see is rounds beginning to impact in enough quantity as to cause Brown to bleed heavily and he continues forward, whether by choice or momentum, and Wilson continues to retreat as he's shooting.

As for your other comment (in regards to working the slide), that is odd. One handed reloading involves using your legs/leg to hold the weapon while you feed another magazine in. One can use a somewhat similar technique to work the slide as well. I've personally never been "officially" trained in that method, but it is out there.

I know it sounds like it may be a bit much to do in the middle of a fight, but keep in mind that all of these techniques are created for a worst case scenario of being at least partially disabled but still in the middle of a lethal situation. If these were the techniques applied, then this would be almost the exact reason they were created.

a reply to: Shamrock6
It's oriented with the top facing north. Here's the estimation with a doubled maximum distance from the gun to the casing. Caveat is again that they could bounce and roll a bit, but I think that unlikely to have happened for the four found in the grass.

The second casing near the SUV is still far out of range, it seems. We can assume the scene was secured pretty abruptly, as one backup officer arrived just after the shooting - close enough that he heard the final shots but not in view. A second officer responding said he arrived nearly at the same time, but did not hear the shots.

a reply to: Greven

All I would say in regard to the casings near the vehicle is that it's entirely possible that the casings got kicked around, either by Brown himself or Wilson when exiting the vehicle. The only other alternative is that Wilson was out of the vehicle, given the placement of the casings, and we know that to not be the case.

As far as positioning of the rest is concerned, I see what you're saying now so thanks for the clarification. That being said, I think it's very plausible that Wilson was not moving in a straight line. Moving laterally, even if only somewhat, is a basic principle of tactical movement. Combine that with an oncoming assailant, and I think it's even more reason to think the lateral movement is expected. If somebody were running towards you, would you back straight up, or back up and move to the side?

Is the area identified as the location of the remains in the middle of the street or near the curb? I can't tell from that picture but it looks to me that the curb bumps out under the tree, nearly out to where the remains are located. The pictures I saw appeared to show the remains in almost the dead middle of the street, so that's a bit odd to me.

Finally, in regards to the scene being secured, you can probably expect at least several minutes before expecting the scene to be locked down entirely. The first arriving officer is going to where the primary (Wilson) is to ensure his safety and so on. Even the second and third officers could be expected to do that. And then once they're sure Wilson is fine, they'd begin locking everything down. I'm not sure where the backup officers arrived from, or their movements within the scene, but I do think it's entirely plausible to have some level of disturbance in the scene. It would've been far from pristine.

a reply to: Shamrock6

All I would say in regard to the casings near the vehicle is that it's entirely possible that the casings got kicked around, either by Brown himself or Wilson when exiting the vehicle. The only other alternative is that Wilson was out of the vehicle, given the placement of the casings, and we know that to not be the case.

that is probable cause.

This is what happens when you give up your weapon.

Solutions:

Body Cameras on every Cop right now.

Special weapons that only that Officer can fire.

*Note Officer Wilson put himself in great legal jeopardy by talking to the Grand Jury.

Seeing how the Grand Jury can indict a ham sandwich...He must of been convincing.

a reply to: Shamrock6
Definitely not impossible, it just seems odd for it to be 20ft away from the SUV when Wilson claimed he fired his weapon from inside the vehicle. Must have been a harsh enough angle for it to eject out the window. Johnson did claim Wilson was out of his vehicle when the second shot was fired, but his testimony seems to suggest Wilson was further east down the street. I might have misread that, but that's how it seemed to me.

I would probably move to the side. Running straight during the chase might have happened, but I was more estimating where Brown went than Wilson. The wounds on Brown are on his right - right arm, chest, face - and the one from the top of his head. If Wilson is moving to the side from west to east and backwards from an advancing... given Brown's ending position...I don't see how those shots could happen. I have to assume he backed up from east to west, but even still... Brown looks to have continued forward. The immediately fatal shot was the one to the top of the head:

Wilson: Just coming straight at me like he was going to run through me. And when he gets about that 8 to 10 feet away, I look down, I remember looking at my sites and firing, all I see is his head and that's what I shot.

It's just... I didn't imagine the casings would be scattered quite as they were compared to the position of the body, going from Wilson's testimony.

This image from long ago should clarify it a bit, east is on the left and west is on the right. Wilson's SUV is the one in the middle of the road parked diagonally and facing towards the northwest. The two SUVs further down the street are at a similar distance as a light pole on the left side of the street.

This street light, along with the large overhanging tree, makes it look like a curb is sticking out. This same light is what Wilson referred to when he said Brown had ran to about that point before turning around and advancing towards him, and is about even with the furthest blood stain in the road. Brown is indeed laying in the middle of the street, almost dead center (obscured in this photograph).

Yeah, they did check on Wilson before securing the scene, according to their statements to investigators - but they did secure the scene immediately after checking on him.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Except...wait for it...he wasn't outside the vehicle when the first two shots were fired. So nope, still not probable cause. Crime scene isn't pristine? They rarely are. Again, not probable cause.

originally posted by: whyamIhere

This is what happens when you give up your weapon.

Solutions:

Body Cameras on every Cop right now.

Special weapons that only that Officer can fire.

*Note Officer Wilson put himself in great legal jeopardy by talking to the Grand Jury.

Seeing how the Grand Jury can indict a ham sandwich...He must of been convincing.

It seems like yet more reason not to pull up in close proximity to a suspect, to me.

a reply to: Greven

You know, when I first saw the autopsy reports that showed where the impacts were, my first reaction was "cop has too much finger on the trigger." Meaning he's using too much finger to depress the trigger and he's pushing the barrel of the weapon to his left, the target's right. He could have perfect sight alignment and sight picture and still push his rounds to the side, just because of that.

In regards to Johnson's claim: were all the rounds accounted for? I thought they were but I may be mistaken on that. What I mean is that I don't recall hearing anything about an extraneous round that they couldn't determine where it ended up.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I can't quote any definite answer on that right now - I know one round was recovered from the inside driver's side door of Wilson's SUV. Another was recovered embedded in the wall in the apartment building to the south, near the southeast corner. There's the one in the road. I believe three were taken from Brown's body. A total of 12 shots were fired, 10 verified by audio and Wilson carrying 12-round magazines plus one in the chamber (he testified that he removed that round and made the weapon safe before sealing it in an evidence bag). I do not know where the other 6 are or if they have been found. It seems likely that they would be on the north side of the road; either in the ground/trees/vehicles or the building behind where he was shot and opposite of where it seems Wilson was likely standing.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Do you know what probable cause is?

a reply to: Greven

So of the two shots fired inside the vehicle, one was recovered from the door and the other was in a wall that would've been behind Brown, as he was facing the vehicle? Am I understanding or have I got it backwards?

I'm on my mobile, so I keep having to scroll back up to the picture to confirm directions and such. Apologies for being difficult

a reply to: raymundoko

No.

Yes the officer will get a new house free of charge plus removal costs because a paper leaked his address to help his case and he will sue the USA government for millions because he was force to resign.

That's what you call a bonus for telling the slaves that we have them all covered and can execute anyone without recourse to a functioning legal system.

The police talk about "credible witnesses" well that's the cop and a witness that keeps changing his mind against ten other eye witnesses that are deems to have just been seeing things.

Let's say that i don't and let's have the members displaying SHILL SUPREME and DISINFO AGENT enlighten us on just what they think it is and give examples of what if either of you were on the jury it would have taken to return a true bill in this certain case.






Yes possible crime scene tampering would be probable cause along with about ten other reasons with the biggest being witnesses gone missing now.

a reply to: VirusGuard

His address was leaked after the GJ declined to indict. And he can't sue the U.S. government since they wouldn't have had any part in him resigning.

Any other sensationalistic comments you want to make?

a reply to: deadeyedick

Dude. Go read the legal definition of probable cause, since none of the lay men's terms used to explain it to you seem to get anywhere.

Evidence tampering: separate charge. Witness tampering: separate charge. And unless you have any shred of proof that Wilson was involved or complicit in either one or those instances, it still isn't probable cause for WILSON'S case. Even if Wilson had picked up all his shell casings it STILL isn't probable cause for a murder charge because it's evidence tampering. My god.

a reply to: Shamrock6

yes you ignore the question of what would it take for you to give a no bill vote as pertaining to this case?