Vancouver PD (Canada) Murder man brandishing....... 2 X 4

Another day another murder bye the "Gangsters" in my city. Although we see plenty of news stories daily in States about officers shooting people, well to be honest it's pretty common place here as well, especially in Vancouver.

Now yes this may be due to the open aired heroin and crack market that operates freely within our city along East Hastings, and the fact that it is clear our police may be the worst trained in the entire world or at least viewed by the members of our city, to deal with that issue.

The reason I mention our open aired drug market is because I feel it, as well as the police training to deal with such people is the root of our problems here, we have too many people on socialized as well as illegal drugs, hear a voice take a pill, homeless.... smoke some crack or inject.

That said we had another citizen, a person, who may have been suffering from some sort of mental episode murdered, by our severely under trained, or uselessly trained, or trained on rage and steroids.... "POLICE" unable to subdue a mentally distraught man with a 2 X 4.

Vancouver PD Murder man with 2 X 4

Montague said officers used bean bag rounds in a bid to disarm him and arrest him, but eventually the man was shot.

A witness said officers fired several rounds when they were about two metres from the suspect.

The video in the link shows the aftermath of the situation

From a friend who lives close, I was conveyed that the man was distraught, and had been in the middle of the street waving a 2 X 4 their is a witness who tried speaking to the agitated man, who may of only been posing a threat to himself. The witness says the police arrived and the man continued acting erratic. The police then used bean bags fired at the man, then when that did not work shot the guy. Witness says not long between showing up, first bean bag, then live fire.

Now my beef is the man had a 2 X 4, not a gun, not a knife, had hurt no one or threatened anyone up too this point, yes he did not reply to police but dead, you do not respect my authority and "poof" life over.

As I said earlier my city is absolutely rife with drug abuse, you can get anything you want on any corner in the seediest neighborhood in country..... Except for "HELP" from those who collect our tax payer dollars and are sworn to protect us.

Our police here "ARE" trigger happy, and more often than not they are killing the homeless or people with mental health issue.

I have known a few and steroids are a huge issue and are known to block rational thought which I feel is lacking in our force, too often we see our police killing people when alternative solutions are more than readily available.....

And honestly I have taught my children now that when you see police you steer clear...., I don't tell them that they are bad...., but I do convey if you need not interact, don't!!! Because in my opinion they are not your friends, or there for you, unless you invite them into your home, and know them personally.

Otherwise looking more and more like paid, protected from charge executioners.....

R.I.P all those murdered by the GANGSTERS IN BLUE only "GANG" I fear

SaneThinking

a reply to: SaneThinking

Damn vpd! I'm from Abby.. I wonder why they didn't taser him or made him... There are ways around killing people.

a reply to: snypwsd

Ya I dunno, if they only deployed one bean bag or numerous, but guy had a 2 X 4 I've seen and been man handled while drunk on Granville hell seen them do them same to guys twice my size. I just dunno why lethal force was deemed necessary. Witness reports have VPD not taking alot of time on this situ just ending it. Sad sad day reminds me of Paul Boyd and the chain incident, where Gang member of the VPD Lee Chipperfield executed Paul Boyd point blank shot in the forehead after he had been shot by police 6 times already and was crawling on his hands and knees.

Something is wrong here fore sure maybe the VPD officers dipping to much into the evidence locker I dunno but something is up!!

SaneThinking

a reply to: SaneThinking

They probly don't like tazering people because of what happened to that polish guy ten years ago at the airport.

But still they could of done something. The APD has used those bean bags on the homeless hear too. Luckily they haven't resorted to actual bullets here yet.

They could of sent in two dogs to get him. One may get hit but the other would subdue him. That's why they are trained as attack dogs. Why not use them?

a reply to: SaneThinking

In this case it seems that the man with the 2x4 was possibly mentally Ill and on drugs..a dangerous combination. For those who don't know, there are times when mental illness will lead to a person having double your own strength, and I don't doubt a well placed home run hit to the head with a 2x4 could kill you.

I applaud the fact that they didn't use bullets first and did try the bean bag method, although I don't know why tazers were not deployed instead of bean bags.

Also if the man was on some hard drugs, the shock from the tazer could also have killed him so it's a very tough situation to be in regardless of wether he was holding a gun.

Yesterday I went off in someone's thread about police killing a child in the U.S who had a BB gun, and in that case where to draw the line is also not well defined..however I would sooner take my chances with a child carrying a gun over a mentally unstable person with any kind of weapon.

My opinion is probably biased due to the fact that I have been attacked in Toronto at night walking to work by a mentally unstable man. It is not uncommon for people with mental illness to approach me, in fact it happens a lot and I often humour them by listening to their stories and speaking with them. Back to when I got attacked in Toronto, I can assure you I'm not a weak person and I've trained in a few martial arts..that being said this guys strength was amazing, he snapped within seconds and could have killed me if I didn't get out of his grip and subdue him with all my own strength.

Things are the same all over North America....did you think Hastings street drug market is the only one?
(Ironically, situated in a four block radius around the main police station in Vancouver) this is just a sample of the wide open selling of heavy drugs across the continent....
The government allows this to go on and has since I was a boy, several decades ago.....
The cops seem either powerless to do anything, or so corrupt they wont do anything about whats going on.....
Junkies shooting up on the curb while the police just cruise on by....day after day....week in week out....
Now you tell me.....Who is getting the payoff.......

a reply to: stirling

Agreed I have traveled with work all across our great country I call my homes open air market the worst though, due to climate, ability to function all year, over all deplorable conditions I have seen.

But alas some areas in the GTA or even Winnipeg skids in the summer some freaky ass places.

But I do as well fear collusion or complacency amongst those tasked with controlling or solving the problem I can be hassled for smoking cannabis while sitting at the ocean but a junkie can dip a vein on any corner in the city, with no resistance, does seem odd.

Then with several officers recently picked up on dealing or facilitating the actions of the dealers.

There is a deep problem thats a fact, but killing people when I feel as well as many witnesses feel this could have ended, man arrested, and charged with disturbing the peace.......... not loaded into a body bag.

SaneThinking

a reply to: snypwsd

There are ways around killing people.

The problem is when you are 'armed' with a hammer every problem looks like a nail. If you take away their guns then they will need to use the brain God gave them.

a reply to: threeeyesopen

I used to work at a retail location on E. Hastings so I know all too well about people and there mental health conditions or conditions with drugs. I do as well agree that a person on drugs can become overwhelmingly strong "Hulk Like" in sense. But these are people tasked with doing just this, getting a person under control, they are not taught to use force, only when necessary.

I do feel that the police may have had some fear but all witness accounts say there was not much discourse police came, he didn't not submit to authority, was been bagged, yes another could have done damage, sure a taser when not knowing all facts could end bad.

But guess what it ended bad they shot the guy and he died, so leave the maybes and could haves out of it, cause in fact they just murdered the dude.

So yes I agree that they need to exercise caution as do all people, but when you execute your last resort before trying everything else possible then in my opinion these "Gangmembers of the force" are judge jury executioner and just plain murderers.

SaneThinking

a reply to: Metallicus

So true and I couldn't agree more, seems no police officer has negotiation training these days, or any clue how to deal with the public in general.

SaneThinking

"I used to work at a retail location on E. Hastings so I know all too well about people and there mental health conditions or conditions with drugs. I do as well agree that a person on drugs can become overwhelmingly strong "Hulk Like" in sense. But these are people tasked with doing just this, getting a person under control, they are not taught to use force, only when necessary."

I agree with you on this, having taken schooling to be a police officer you are taught indeed to only use force when necessary and to exceed the expectations of what a "normal" person would do.


"I do feel that the police may have had some fear but all witness accounts say there was not much discourse police came, he didn't not submit to authority, was been bagged, yes another could have done damage, sure a taser when not knowing all facts could end bad."


Again very true, all too often the police show up, and "get rid of the problem" by bagging and tagging them.


"But guess what it ended bad they shot the guy and he died, so leave the maybes and could haves out of it, cause in fact they just murdered the dude."

I can't help but bring up the maybes because nothing is simply black & white. There are always reasons behind every action taken..maybe as you stated it was fear, maybe the cop had a bad day and lost his patience. Neither of those are justified and reasoning above all else is desired but..we live in an imperfect world where the rules are not set in stone as to what's going to happen next. Ask yourself what you would do in that situation, and if you had no choice but to shoot someone, people would still call you a murderer.


"So yes I agree that they need to exercise caution as do all people, but when you execute your last resort before trying everything else possible then in my opinion these "Gangmembers of the force" are judge jury executioner and just plain murderers."


I can't help but feel your opinion of the police is biased from the start, and I'm not trying to change your view on the world, just one simple question of what you would do in that situation, especially if all else failed and you had no choice but to shoot and take the risk of killing someone. You can either answer it in your mind or on here, whichever you like but I'm not going to get into an all day debate over this, I've got other things to do today

To whom do you address your query?
Why bother asking if not to discuss...[perhaps we are all to busy for this discussion as well]
Many of us have already experienced the unhumanity of the police forces.....perhaps you have not yet....aint you the lucky one.....

a reply to: threeeyesopen

Your right I "DO NOT LIKE POLICE" I used too, in fact went on a ride along as a kid, wanted to be a cop. Grew up, saw the world for what it was and that all changed.

Police used to be our protectors, our safety, the ones we looked up too, now a days we revere them, fear them, hide inside when they roll through our neighborhoods, and it's not only me, ask many others. Does that cloud my judgement of right and wrong I fear not, I can see the forest through the trees still and make knowledgeable decisions based upon my thoughts, regardless of how I feel about the men and women who join the "gang"

That said I would have spoke with the man, tried to calm him down, I would have kept a distance to judge and determine what set this individual upon said course.

(From witness testimony they showed up open trunks grabbed weapons)

If unable to do so, I would continue to try and maintain contact, after all person had harmed no one was just having a personal episode on his own. Not surround so that the person becomes even more agitated

(as was stated by witness to event)

When person failed to listen after all else had failed I would try to deploy non lethal means if all else fails after all this person was only disrupting traffic again had harmed no one, there was no threat to anyone if he was to remain with 2 X 4 in middle of street.

(yet when failed to listen, the police used non lethal means, on a person just disrupting police, harming no one as of yet)

At this point there were more than 3 officers on scene drugs or mental state was assumed, and non lethal means had been used, I would have rushed a grounded individual with taser out for back up, or pounce with the help of my fellow officers trained to do so, after all police are trained in subduing people are they not especially when they have force in numbers.

(the witness proclaims that they did very little to make contact, deployed bean bag when man still tried to get up after bean bag was then administered lethal force)

In my opinion thats where a trigger happy cop went wrong they had power and numbers other non lethal means still to deploy this was a situation police had under control just as in the VPD Paul Boyd incident yet they decided to murder this man because in my opinion lack of training in dealing with the public. Say what you will police are quick to pull the trigger and deal with paper work before trying to be human these days.

Is it there work load?, the population of the people they police?, **were they the ones always picked on holding a grudge against the world?**, or are they generally power hungry pieces of **** with a badge and power now. You can sure imagine what my guess would be, but alas till cops quit killing people, or we actually stand up guess we can just have a new thread to discuss each day

Have a good one, hopefully your day is better than the deceased!!!

SaneThinking

a reply to: Metallicus

I would respectfully disagree. I think it's all down to training. While I've drawn my sidearm a number of times, I've never had to put it in play. My department hasn't had a use of lethal force in God only knows how long.

The OP states that VPD is poorly trained, and if that's the case then I would submit that's a much larger factor in events than the idea of "Welp, we got us some guns so let's see what they do"

a reply to: SaneThinking

No one should die for waving about a 2x4. It can take time to talk down people but the police rarely nowadays seem to go there, or perhaps aren't trained properly in psychology or alternate methods of restraint.

The bit of training I did to work with the mentally handicapped emphasized restraint being a last resort and only to prevent the person from getting hurt. It was to be done with dignity and no force that could hurt the client. Why cops aren't held to some sort of standard like this is beyond me. I also had a paid position with a crisis centre and it didn't matter how long or if its the middle of the night, you just make the time to talk someone down, usually out of suicide. It should be a part of the job not shoot first ask questions later.

It is so ironic that that part of Vancouver is surrounding the major police station. Always was curious to me like they let it happen for some reason. Its much worse now than it was back when I was young. I went there as a teen and bought heroin for loads of people, then being a newbie I barfed all over a cops shiny boots. He was pissed but I'd imagine in this day and age I'd of gotten tasered or beat. It is a hard job done right.

a reply to: igloo

This incident happened quite a ways from the DTES and the HQ of the VPD. But it is odd that you see the majority of the hard drugs sold within footsteps of main police detachment, and the fact that you see the beat cops daily walk bye complacently as the deals go down.

And I couldn't agree more police "need" proper crisis training and the ability to use rational thought when dealing with the distraught or mentally ill, too many times the police do not take the time to figure out a situation before being boneheaded and aggressive. This man has a family could have been home for dinner if dealt with properly, now instead someone is out a father, brother, son, because he was in all respects having a pretty bad day.....

SaneThinking

www.cbc.ca...
Vancouver teen captures shooting on video......may be revealing dont you think...........................

a reply to: stirling

Wow hadn't read that report yet only spoke with a friend who was in view of the scene. And conveys that there was not much time between arrival and the death of this man. One witness is on record saying that as soon as they arrived they had trunks open and lethal means in hand. Our police to me are P.O.S murderers and executioners they can all go ^^^^ themselves IMPO

SaneThinking

originally posted by: SaneThinking
a reply to: igloo

This incident happened quite a ways from the DTES and the HQ of the VPD. But it is odd that you see the majority of the hard drugs sold within footsteps of main police detachment, and the fact that you see the beat cops daily walk bye complacently as the deals go down.

And I couldn't agree more police "need" proper crisis training and the ability to use rational thought when dealing with the distraught or mentally ill, too many times the police do not take the time to figure out a situation before being boneheaded and aggressive. This man has a family could have been home for dinner if dealt with properly, now instead someone is out a father, brother, son, because he was in all respects having a pretty bad day.....

SaneThinking

The VPD don't even use that location really. There are 2 bigger HQ'S. One at boundary and 2st and the other on Cambie. The DT location is just so when they book the riff raff, they can release them in their own neighborhood. Police are not going to be releasing arrests blocks from city haul and they are not going to drive them back to tje DTES, sooo

a reply to: MALBOSIA

This is very true the DTES location is where the drunk tank and temp holding cells are, and as you stated mainly to serve just that community. I have however been a lil tipsy in Kits may have been in a scuffle, then woke up at the DTES location after sleeping off some weariness, was told I was being too much of a prick so they took me there instead of Cambie, a bloody eye opener when your hung and waking up too the walking dead as they push ya out the door into the alley LoL

Regardless three main locations, and with each incident like this you'd think they have not one spare room for training officers in dealing with the public????

Just getting to be a bit much here sometimes

SaneThinking