Spirituality in unity

A bit of background first....

I was a drug addict for about ten years. Atheist, with an ego driven sense of direction. I viewed people with any religious beliefs as insane, weak. I viewed myself as more intelligent, as if I had insight everybody else was somehow missing out on. At this point in my life the only way I would believe something is if I seen it first. I needed the evidence. It was brought to my attention that my life was a result of my beliefs, since I made decisions based on my core belief system. I was beat into a state of willingness (reasonableness). I was asked if I would do anything to change, even if it mean giving up the beliefs I held at that time. This was a battle my ego didn't want to lose. To destroy the ego, was to kill me. As I though the ego was my personality, it felt like intellectual suicide.

When I developed a willingness to believe, the results began to appear. The more I focused my thought process on positive aspects, the more defined they became in my life. I have been sober since July of 2012, and my thoughts of reality are (to the best of my ability) described as the following:

There is no good or bad, right or wrong. There just IS. The creative force behind the totality of things, is the same source of life that exists with you and I. That means you and I are the same. We are the same energy - the potentiality of (insert whatever desired name here- many use God) expressing Itself into ever expanding ideas and experiences. To help another means to help Oneself. - of course an argument can be made regarding the idea of quantum physics. Since the only true thing I can be aware of is my own consciousness, that there is a possibility that you are all renderings, projections of thought. Maybe I am a figment of your imagination?

There are definite laws to this Universe, many of them waiting to be discovered. As it is true that electricity existed 7,000 years, yet nobody at that time utilized this definite capability (arguably). I perceive mathematical formulas as an attempt to decipher the complexity of the Divine source code. I believe we are the Universe experiencing itself, through itself, discovering itself. We are in a process of a unified awakening, to become One.

Thoughts? I'd love to hear your opinions!

[EDIT] This is my first thread. Thanks for having me into your community!

a reply to: soberlife

Welcome Soberlife. I look forward to giving your ideas a ripe buggering, but I'm thankful that you, yourself, the only one with the power to get you on the right track, was able to clamour out of the darkness, into some sense of joy.

a reply to: soberlife

Welcome to ATS soberlife

Welcome and congrats on 2+ years of sobriety.

I dont' have a 'creator god' either and it's taken me quite a while to reconcile 'god talk' with my understanding of reality. I had to be willing to hear the word 'god' and not immediately jump into silent arguement about why god - a creator god - couldn't exist. I had to come to understand that god is just a metaphor for 'whatever you believe in' and stop fighting everybody. Whatever you have faith in is 'god'.

Now that I've stopped fighting or trying to justify 'my god' to others it's much easier. But it did take near on five years to get there.

For me reading contenporary buddist literature was very helpful - both general and recovery related. But I've always believed that I could find the answer in books (deluded). I have found concrete things that I can do to further my understanding and reliance on a greater power then me and that's all that is required.

originally posted by: soberlife

Welcome to ATS

Congratulations on being sober and living a better life. That's a very important thing and not everyone can make it through the process.

There is no good or bad, right or wrong. There just IS. The creative force behind the totality of things, is the same source of life that exists with you and I. That means you and I are the same. We are the same energy - the potentiality of (insert whatever desired name here- many use God) expressing Itself into ever expanding ideas and experiences. To help another means to help Oneself. - of course an argument can be made regarding the idea of quantum physics.

I too believe we are all made up of the same energy, whether we are humans, animals or the device you are reading this on. I think the higher power or as you also said, maybe even the universe, was curious and wanted to act out every single thing possible.

Since the only true thing I can be aware of is my own consciousness, that there is a possibility that you are all renderings, projections of thought. Maybe I am a figment of your imagination?

I'm not too big of a fan of this theory. I don't want to be all alone and everyone is just a figment of my imagination. I wouldn't mind so much, I guess, if we were all projecting an image/controlling a vessel from somewhere else. Still a bit eerie though imho

There are definite laws to this Universe, many of them waiting to be discovered. As it is true that electricity existed 7,000 years, yet nobody at that time utilized this definite capability (arguably). I perceive mathematical formulas as an attempt to decipher the complexity of the Divine source code. I believe we are the Universe experiencing itself, through itself, discovering itself. We are in a process of a unified awakening, to become One.

I agree there are many laws awaiting to be discovered and some that are waiting to be adjusted. We are young and still learning/exploring.

I think our souls are going through a purification process so to speak. Think of a water filtration system, water keeps passing through the filter until it comes out pure. Earth would be our soul's filter and we keep getting reincarnated until we have learned all we needed to & have achieved purity. What happens after that point, I'm not 100% sure. Maybe we join together with some other souls to become a single God for a solar system/parallel universe elsewhere, we are a God out on our own for a solar system/parallel universe elsewhere, or we go back to the higher power/universe & reconnect.

I don't know for sure though, I think an Empirical (Open) Agnostic:
The view that the existence or nonexistence of any deities is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable; therefore, one will withhold judgment until evidence, if any, becomes available. An Empirical agnostic would say, "I don't know whether any deities exist or not, but maybe one day, if there is evidence, we can find something out."

Hope that all makes sense, if not feel free to ask questions.

Namaste

originally posted by: soberlife

Welcome to ATS

Congratulations on being sober and living a better life. That's a very important thing and not everyone can make it through the process.

There is no good or bad, right or wrong. There just IS. The creative force behind the totality of things, is the same source of life that exists with you and I. That means you and I are the same. We are the same energy - the potentiality of (insert whatever desired name here- many use God) expressing Itself into ever expanding ideas and experiences. To help another means to help Oneself. - of course an argument can be made regarding the idea of quantum physics.

I too believe we are all made up of the same energy, whether we are humans, animals or the device you are reading this on. I think the higher power or as you also said, maybe even the universe, was curious and wanted to act out every single thing possible.

Since the only true thing I can be aware of is my own consciousness, that there is a possibility that you are all renderings, projections of thought. Maybe I am a figment of your imagination?

I'm not too big of a fan of this theory. I don't want to be all alone and everyone is just a figment of my imagination. I wouldn't mind so much, I guess, if we were all projecting an image/controlling a vessel from somewhere else. Still a bit eerie though imho

There are definite laws to this Universe, many of them waiting to be discovered. As it is true that electricity existed 7,000 years, yet nobody at that time utilized this definite capability (arguably). I perceive mathematical formulas as an attempt to decipher the complexity of the Divine source code. I believe we are the Universe experiencing itself, through itself, discovering itself. We are in a process of a unified awakening, to become One.

I agree there are many laws awaiting to be discovered and some that are waiting to be adjusted. We are young and still learning/exploring.

I think our souls are going through a purification process so to speak. Think of a water filtration system, water keeps passing through the filter until it comes out pure. Earth would be our soul's filter and we keep getting reincarnated until we have learned all we needed to & have achieved purity. What happens after that point, I'm not 100% sure. Maybe we join together with some other souls to become a single God for a solar system/parallel universe elsewhere, we are a God out on our own for a solar system/parallel universe elsewhere, or we go back to the higher power/universe & reconnect.

I don't know for sure though, I think an Empirical (Open) Agnostic:
The view that the existence or nonexistence of any deities is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable; therefore, one will withhold judgment until evidence, if any, becomes available. An Empirical agnostic would say, "I don't know whether any deities exist or not, but maybe one day, if there is evidence, we can find something out."

Hope that all makes sense, if not feel free to ask questions.

An admirable feat. Good job on that. I wish you luck on beating your addiction for years to come.
As I experienced the "transcendence of duality" myself, I can somewhat confirm that your thoughts are true and so this is a very good thread.
Not much more to say, it sounds somewhat like the Law of One or the Hidden Hand message, it shall hold truth, no doubt.
I think what I like most is that yet another person "made" it. The perspective you describe can benefit you very much.
If you can understand other peoples perspective just by not rejecting their perspective because you consider them as One or as a part of you will cause for many solutions to otherwise difficult problems.

You have reached an important stage in your life, have a nice life my friend. Take care.

Glad to have you in the family. Battling addiction is no small thing, good for you that you were successful. See you out on the boards.

Welcome! beautiful post, congrats on being sober! It's not easy, I've been there too, I get it and it sounds like your come a long way!

Im with you on the belief that we are all the same. Like one the other posters mentioned, Buddhist texts explain it quite well! I've always seen 'god' or whatever the heck you see it as, as the entire universe, we all exists inside of it and are all part of it. Kind of like the way atoms and other tiny bits make up matter and people, us and our planets are just a larger version of that inside something else (hope that explanation make sense!). Each of our sentient minds are connected and are part of the higher being. Whether that higher being itself is sentient or not, or just live in a dormant subconscious state, eh I'm not sure about that

Also, because I love a good debate and am curious to here why you believe this:

originally posted by: soberlife

There is no good or bad, right or wrong. There just IS.

What then is harming others, causing pain, etc thereby causing oneself pain, if not 'wrong' or a negative thing? What do you see it as? What about giving to others and providing charity? Why is that not 'good' or 'right'? I believe that one grows as a person positively in a 'good' way when you give and love. Is that not 'right'? Do you see it all as people going through a learning process? That we're meant to go through certain experiences to grow? Or maybe you have some other theory completely anyways look forward to hearing from you!

originally posted by: soberlife
There is no good or bad, right or wrong.

That's what is known as a self refuting "deepity"...

The source is TPTB's 'New Age' religion which is nothing more than a blatant counterfeit.

It's also got NOTHING at all to do with reality.

I learned a great new word from Daniel Dennett recently, one that I can see myself using rather a lot from now on (you’ve been warned): deepity. Deepity is the quality found in a statement whose author takes a failed stab at profundity. It seems deep at first glance, but it’s actually squishy and meaningless when you examine it. Deepity is probably the most useful neologism since Stephen Colbert‘s “truthiness.”

These New Age Bull# Generators Will Help You Sound Like a Guru

In other words, it couldn't possibly be true.

So do you also agree with ISIS’s claim that beheading people is morally good?

It’s easy to see that all of these claims are illogical when applied to themselves.

All one has to do is ask, “Is it objectively true that there is no objective truth?”

Relativism is the philosophical position that all points of view are equally valid and that all truth is relative to the individual. But, if we look further, we see that this proposition is not logical. In fact, it is self refuting.

"All truth is relative."

• If the statement "All truth is relative" is true, then this would be a truth. If it is a truth, that means the statement "All truth is relative" is not relative. Therefore, not all truths are relative (since you claim your truth is not relative) and the statement that "All truth is relative" is false.

"There are no absolute truths. "

• The statement "There are no absolute truths" is an absolute statement which is supposed to be true. Therefore it is an absolute truth and "There are no absolute truths" is false.

• If there are no absolute truths, then you cannot believe anything absolutely at all, including that there are no absolute truths. Therefore, nothing could be really true for you - including relativism.

"What is true for you is not true for me. "

• If what is true for me is that relativism is false, then is it true that relativism is false?
• If you say no, then what is true for me is not true and relativism is false.
• If you say yes, then relativism is false.

"No one can know anything for sure. "

• If that is true, then we can know that we cannot know anything for sure which is self defeating.

"That is your reality, not mine. "

• Is my reality really real?
• If my reality is different than yours, how can my reality contradict your reality?
• If yours and mine are equally real, how can two opposite realities that exclude each other really exist at the same time?

"We all perceive what we want . "

• How do you know that statement is true?
• If we all perceive what we want, then what are you wanting to perceive?

Refuting Relativism

New Age "spirituality" is just another TRAP set by the elite and inventors of religion, for the purpose of social control. People who aren't buying mainstream religion are in danger of finding true unified consciousness, which is exactly what the elite don't want, so they created New Age religion to keep people trapped in the matrix of CONTROL. It's like a last ditch effort to hold people down, to keep the ones who are "getting away" from escaping their control.

The vast majority of new agers claim that they are "spiritual but not religious" but notice how so many new agers believe in Jesus, Buddha, Krishna and other "ascended masters" as "historical people." They're buying into bull# and believing in these mythic deities in the total and complete ABSENCE OF ALL EVIDENCE just the SAME as mainstream religious folks. Believing in fairy tales, myths and legends isn’t called being “enlightened” it’s called being gullible and living in the dark.

"New Age" Religion/Spirituality: Just more HYPOCRISY and MIND CONTROL

...lack of rational thinking rampant among new agers, things like:

"the only thing that is real is me"
"my thoughts and feelings and my own well being is the only thing that matters"
"I am the universe, the universe is me"
"love and light is all that is needed"
"thinking about other people's pain lowers my vibration so I will not concern myself with anything other than my own well being"
etc.

New Age Bull$hit, The Truth and The Reasons

Many atheists and non-religious people have experienced Unity Consciousness, myself included. One can only go "so deep" into the nature of Reality while still in our physical form. BUT.....One can go far enough to realize (sometimes in a flash) that God is a real thing.......and whatever IT is - It is the thing that is generating your Reality. Hell, for all we know God could be a multidimensional brain in a box somewhere and we are all only "thoughts" in God's brain.....like God dreaming. And like most dreams, there is good, evil, and exitement or they wouldn't be much fun.

But since we are thoughts in God's dream.....if we are killing each other "in the dream"...who is getting hurt???

When you dream of screwing the neighbor's hot teen daughter...who is getting hurt?

I'll bet "God" or whatever dreams up this reality can have some pretty "creative" dreams.......and they're not all sunshine and lollipops for sure!!

So quit worrying about good/evil in "the World" and concentrate on raising your consciousness to the point where you realize that the great Dreamer is none other than a higher level of You.

And praying to a God "out there" somewhere is not going to help! As Christ himself said- "The Kingdom of Heaven lies Within". So why exactly do all the religitards pray to an external God???????

I guess so the Church can get rich LOL.

Namaste-
-Boypony

a reply to: Murgatroid


Because I'm getting seriously frustrated with my phone and can't figure out how to properly quote, I'm going to let you figure out what references are towards what

Well then... As someone who believe herself to be spiritual, I would very much like to debate your post with you Murgatroid.

Your first statement about 'good and evil' I'll agree with, but the rest? Not all of us "New Age Spiritualist" have the same beliefs so please don't clump us all together, it's like saying all Christians and Islams follow the same practices and have the same beliefs. There's various POV's within all religions

Source Two

Now mind you, this is just my belief/opinion, there are a lot of other views on this out there so I welcome other 'New Agers' to join in. If you really want I can find sources to back up what I'm saying.

belief one: Your source states that all truths are relative, well to the person that believes them, their truth is relative to their life an affects how the view and interact with the world around them. Hitler believed that blonde haired, blue eyed people were superior and acted accordingly based on his truth. Therefore his truth is relative to him. Gandhi believe in nonviolent resistance, he acted accordly in Indian based on his truth. Again, it was relative to his life and what he changes he created in the world. Christians and Islams beliefs/truths are relative to them. Again, they behave in a manner that is relative to their truth. To each of these people these truths are relative to their lives, and the way they see and shape the world, whether in a positive or negative way. So please, explain to me, how 'truth' is not relative? Is it to the person that believes that what they 'know' is the truth.

Belief two: So here's my take on this belief, everyone's 'truth' has the potential to be disproved, therefore not absolute. You can not 100% prove that each persons truth is correct, because what is true for one person is not absolutely true for another. Therefore, no absolute truths. The truth is still relative to the person that believes it, it's just not absolutely true for everyone.

Belief three: grump, well the whole premise behind spirituality (at least in my opinion) is respect for all peoples beliefs and opinions. What the statement here is trying to say (again in my opinion) is that each person has lived a different life and experienced different things. We have different beliefs based on those life experiences. So the truth your life experiences have brought to you, will not be true for me because I have not walked the same path as you.

Belief four: All right, I'll give you this one, but not because of the argument the author gave, (all the arguments given seem really redundant) but because there are things we know for sure, you and I need to breathe to survive, we live then we die, the earth rotates, etc.

Belief five: We all live in our own little bubble worlds, what one person perceives as their 'reality' may not be a reality for another. For example, a rich person does not live in the same circumstances or reality and someone with little money.

Belief six: Sigh... Well let me put it this way, the racist wants a certain ethnic group to be a certain way so he perceives all people who are black to be criminals, the hippy wants to be happy so she perceives everything as perfect. The child rapist wants little kids so he perceives that it's normal or the children are asking for it.

Source Three:

Oh good lord, the whole point of new age spirituality is to find unified consciousness and be at peace with oneself and the world, there's a contradiction and a half.

Google the meaning of spiritual and religious, they basically have the same definition...

Haha, well there is historical proof that Buddha lived, again, google it, I'm running out of room for explanations. With Jesus all there is is texts and scriptures, so I'll give you Jesus, Krishna, I'm not so sure about.

Source Three

Where do people get these ideas from?! It's like saying all people who are black are racists, all people who celebrate the Islam religion are terrorists etc. Haha I'm the only thing that's real!? I didn't know this! So I can do whatever I want now? Yeah right. Haha. My own well being is not all that matters! Everyone matters! We are all equals on this earth, we breathe, we feel, we live we die, we bleed! I am the only one who can change my thoughts/feeling etcetera mind you. I am not the universe. The universe is the universe. I am me. I am part of what makes it it, but I am not it. Just needing love and light is a happy thought, but how can you appreciate the light if darkness isn't there. I'm not saying don't fill the world with love, do it! But it's like yin and yang, you need one to appreciate the other. I think about others pain all the time, it's part of life, why ignore it? Even if it makes me sad. How can you change anything for the better if you don't ponder upon it?

Well that's just my opinion, feel free to debate it! I look forward to your comments Murgatroid

originally posted by: InfamousSiren

What then is harming others, causing pain, etc thereby causing oneself pain, if not 'wrong' or a negative thing? What do you see it as? What about giving to others and providing charity? Why is that not 'good' or 'right'? I believe that one grows as a person positively in a 'good' way when you give and love. Is that not 'right'?

When I perceive something as wrong, I believe I am stating that I know better than God. I try to understand this place as God's Universe, his Playground in which I am here to experience. I believe I have been given free will to create the path that is "for me" - which I determine in accordance to how I feel about the decisions I make. When I start passing judgments on other people, and decisions that they make - I get a certain sense of superiority over them, which is empowering but due to my past experiences causes results that do not line up with what I want to experience. The truth for me is: Everything is the way it's supposed to be.

When I first got sober, I spent 10 months in a residential treatment program. There were about 50 guys in there with me. I worked the 12 steps, and there was a part in the literature that really stood out to me, it stated "God is everything, or God is nothing, what was our choice to be?" - This statement spoke to me. One day the news came in, and the reporter was speaking of a school shooting, where children were killed. At that moment I had a choice: Do I react the way society has trained me to react, as I always have, producing the same results? Or do I view this situation in a new light, that everything is okay - no matter what. I chose the latter. While everyone was in a panic, and overwhelmed by anger, I found peace inside of myself.

Currently there are only 5 of us still sober. Some of those people are now dead. So, to me, this is more than an opinion of reality, it's a process of survival.

If I were to say something is GOOD, I would be acknowledging there is an opposite. Yes, giving and helping others does in fact benefit me. I see it as "surrendering to the Universal will" - going with the flow of God...but since I view God as everything, no matter what choice I make, or what choice anyone makes, we are all within God, living out our experiences to our specific desires.

Do you see it all as people going through a learning process? That we're meant to go through certain experiences to grow? Or maybe you have some other theory completely

anyways look forward to hearing from you!

This is something I've pondered quite a bit. The saying that goes something like this: "God will keep giving you the same lesson until you master it." - is something I can relate to many of my past experiences. I have often wondered if living as a human was for the purpose of teaching my soul to feel emotions...and there are many other variations I could spin on that. Of course, I am always trying to find new information to expand on my current beliefs, and would love to hear anything you have to say on this subject!

Welcome to ATS community where thought and idea's are unhampered by sanity. I do hope your belief system is on the right track as its identical to my own. The only difference is minor, I think string theory, not quantum mechanics will one day explain our reality (motion and rest). Evil may indeed be misrepresented as why would ego exist if it did not have purpose. Perhaps we need experience all that can be experienced before moving on.

Will keep an eye out for your posts.

a reply to: soberlife

You have a lot of valid points if there is such thing as good and evil. Now this is just my view on it, but, if you believe in god, what about satan? In religions where they teach you about god there is also the supreme evil which is satan, he tries to lead you off the path of god/good towards the path of evil. I have heard various theories where because satan is a fallen angel (and in these theories angels are viewed as being an arm of gods will, so the only 'choices' they can make are in accordance with what god wants) god designed it so that he fell to create an 'evil' for us humans to overcome and learn from. Even if it is gods will there is still evil that we need to overcome. I see every choice we make as either having a positive or negative outcome. We cannot make choices for others, but the choices we make for ourselves will either be right or wrong. If the choice we make causes another person pain it is the 'wrong' choice because it causes more pain and suffering which adds a bit of darkness to the person who is causing the pains soul. The person who has been caused pain has the choice to let that pain affect them or not, if they do let it affect them then they might go on to cause more pain and suffering because they want others to feel like them, they want revenge or they believe that it is ok to cause others pain. The same can be said about doing good for others. Now there's also a third choice people can make, and that neutrality, neither doing good nor evil, but standing back and and letting things play out. Like watching kids bully others and not standing up for the victim. In my opinion the victim is the one who has to make the ultimate decision in the end, to continue being victimized or stand up for ones self. The bystander does have a choice in this too, if they do stand up for the victim they may help the victim stand up for themselves, if they encourage the bullies the victim will believe that it's ok to be bullied. Thereby creating a more positive or negative situation. If they just observe and do nothing, then the bullying may or may not continue, and there is less influence over the victim to view the bullying as right or wrong. The bystander has also neither helped nor furthers the situation, therefore the bystander has neither added more 'good' (light) or 'evil' (darkness) to their soul.

In the end it's the choices you make and how they affect others or the outcome of those choices that are either good/right or evil/wrong. The choices one makes may affect the person involved in the decisions made if the person involved let it. But I believe it definitely affects the person who has made the choice's soul, adding more darkness or light to it.

Anyways that's just my belief, your ideas have given me something to think about, because you definitely do have a valid point!