Scientists at the Large Hadron Collider discover two new supermassive particles

Clearly, we still have a lot more to learn about the universe: The Large Hadron Collider, famed for its discovery of the Higgs boson, has discovered two new subatomic particles. Known as Xi_b’- and Xi_b*-, the two particles had previously been predicted to exist by the formidable hypothesizing powers of particle physicists, and now they have been observed and confirmed by CERN’s LHCb team. These new particles have six times the mass of the (already very heavy) proton, and according to CERN this discovery could point us towards “new physics beyond the Standard Model,” which would be rather exciting indeed.

www.extremetech.com...



Came across this article and thought it may be of some interest to my fellow members.

Yes, thank you, now we wait as see what other particles there are, or parts thereoff.

a reply to: andy06shake


I could not access the link. When I clicked on it, the address was truncated to just the http and the slashes and so on, and was thusly invalid!

a reply to: andy06shake

oh this is cool , when i read stuff like this i think about the day we will conquer gravity ... i sure hope i am around when that happens

i most defiantly think that our future will be in space and on other planets .

thanks for the thread !

a reply to: pikestaff

I really don't know that much about particle physics but the sheer size and scale of the LHC and the fact that its responsible for the confirmation and discovery of such wonderful new information pertaining to our universe impress me immensely. One has to wonder as to what this remarkable device will be used to discover next?

a reply to: TrueBrit

Think that's the link fixed TrueBrit, im having one of those days.

Is it going to produce food, health benefits, interstellar space flight, jobs or cheaper energy? If not it was a waste of time.

Oh Joy I spent billions to discover a new DOT. That mean we have faster internet? get it ...particle/dot dot.com

Funny that

a reply to: Xeven

The pursuit of knowledge can hardly be considered to be a waste of time.

Good find (both for the OP and the LHC). As far as I know the LHC will be turned up to near its full power in 2015, and is currently off-line. Without reading the link, these finds must have been discovered from the data already received, processed, and analyzed. The next runs of the LHC can look further at these and other discoveries. To 2015.....and beyond!

edit: Here's a link to the CERN article on the discovery:
home.web.cern.ch...

Like the well-known protons that the LHC accelerates, the new particles are baryons made from three quarks bound together by the strong force. The types of quarks are different, though: the new X_ib particles both contain one beauty (b), one strange (s), and one down (d) quark. Thanks to the heavyweight b quarks, they are more than six times as massive as the proton. But the particles are more than just the sum of their parts: their mass also depends on how they are configured. Each of the quarks has an attribute called "spin". In the Xi_b'- state, the spins of the two lighter quarks point in the opposite direction to the b quark, whereas in the Xi_b*- state they are aligned.

“Nature was kind and gave us two particles for the price of one," said Matthew Charles of the CNRS's LPNHE laboratory at Paris VI University. "The Xi_b'- is very close in mass to the sum of its decay products: if it had been just a little lighter, we wouldn't have seen it at all using the decay signature that we were looking for.”

a reply to: Xeven

Is it going to produce food, health benefits, interstellar space flight, jobs or cheaper energy? If not it was a waste of time.

The technology you've used to post that response came from CERN , just because you don't see the importance of the discovery of new particles doesn't mean it's a waste of time or money.

These new particles have six times the mass of the (already very heavy) proton, and according to CERN this discovery could point us towards “new physics beyond the Standard Model,” which would be rather exciting indeed.

If we are to secure the future of mankind we need knowledge of new physics beyond the Standard Model to escape this planet.

originally posted by: Xeven
Is it going to produce food, health benefits, interstellar space flight, jobs or cheaper energy? If not it was a waste of time.

Oh Joy I spent billions to discover a new DOT. That mean we have faster internet? get it ...particle/dot dot.com

Funny that

Mr Turings device to crack the Nazi communications codes was the birth of the computer. That machine cost a lot of money to build at the time and many wernt convinced it was worth it for the same reasons you posted, and that was at a time of full on world war when every penny was needed.

If they haddnt funded that project, we wouldnt be talking right now on our computers. Definitly not a waste of time or money - even if they DONT discover more valuable info, they can rule out some theory's and focus else where.

Clearly, we still have a lot more to learn about the universe:

That's were I stopped reading !
The phrase no shat Sherlock comes to mind !

It's great to be finding new particles and all ,but people open a statement like that it's just baffling !

We will never know everything !
I think something's are better left inside the box !

Wait I can hear the god squad on the march !

originally posted by: Xeven
Is it going to produce food, health benefits, interstellar space flight, jobs or cheaper energy? If not it was a waste of time.

Oh Joy I spent billions to discover a new DOT. That mean we have faster internet? get it ...particle/dot dot.com

Funny that

Your knowledge of physics is saddly lacking. You will feel right at home here on ATS.

a reply to: Xeven

Ah.

Of course, Copernicus, and Galileo both wasted their time on a heliocentric model of Earths movement, and place within the solar system, because as you say, it made no immediate difference to the lives of people living in the period when they were living, breathing people, as opposed to dead and lofty boffins from yesteryear.

And I suppose Faraday and Tesla were just jokers, doing impractical things like harnessing lightning for their own sheer amusement?

What complete and utter rot!

Most of the greatest discoveries ever made by scientists, in ANY field, take years and years to reach the point where their implications are well enough understood to be applied to every day life! The improvements to shipping and navigation that a more accurate understanding of Earths place in the solar system made possible, were not implemented the day that Copernicus first pondered the possibility of an alternative to the Ptolemaic model! They were not even implemented when Galileo improved upon and expanded upon those points decades later, and they would not be fully implemented til after he had died, because of equal parts stupidity on the part of the sodding Roman Catholic Church *hawks, spits* and the lazy minded, change fearing nature of the human condition!

Similarly, the implications of the discoveries of those working at the LHC, will more than likely be some considerable time in becoming relevant to the daily lives of human beings, but I will tell you one thing. When that does happen, when people are using that kind of physics in every day items, for their every day lives and as part of their routine, they will look back on those who poo-pooed the experiment as singularly closed minded, and they would be right to do so.

The reality is that just as it was decades between the creation of the first computer, and the creation of the first home computer, just as it was decades between the Wright brothers first flight, and the moon landing, so it will be some considerable time between the discovery of these particles and the alterations to theory that some of them may require, and the implications of those changes affecting every day lives. However, to suggest that the effort is not worth it, without giving technology the time to catch up to new knowledge, is just the most staggeringly ignorant thing, one could possibly utter!

I don't think Xeven meant that science is a waste but rather, it costs so much to do/know something that doesn't advance us in life. Sort of like giving up TV and the internet just to know if god wears pants. Sure it might be great to know if god wears pants but it really doesn't help any one and no one else will know what you know...or even care.

Sure its a tiny or large step towards "hopefully" making use of the knowledge and its better that we know it than not know it. I feel its just like those amazing batteries that make headlines and then we never see them, knowing about it doesn't help much.

It would be different if they said that they found a particle called a tranformion and that they now know how to transform lead into gold and plastic into stainless steel, ect. Maybe even if they said that this discovery offers useful hints at gravity or atomic bonding.

a reply to: andy06shake

Wow. That's cool. What do these particles make up exactly? How do they exist? And if they are two times bigger than a proton, why couldn't we see them before? Ah science, discover something new and create 50 million more questions.

a reply to: XL5

But that is not how science works. First of all, scientists do not dictate what the results of their experiments are going to be. They do not go looking for a way to achieve an end, find it, then go home and have some milk and cookies. They experiment, they learn whatever they can learn from their results and then, waaaaaay down the track, when those results have been circulating for a while, some clever chap or chappette, will come along and suggest an entirely new way of looking at, or using the data for something practical.

The fruits of a discovery becoming practically applicable requires that something be discovered first, and uses for that knowledge be developed later. That is the order of play. So if we do not discover these things in the first place, we do not get the benefit of those knowledges at all. Since we cannot know their value, until we have them in our grasp, it is better to have them, than not, even at the astronomical prices being bandied about.

a reply to: Xeven

Just like the discovery of electricity and the electron, eh?

Don't be silly. It's not like these scientist would be working on solving world hunger if they weren't researching in the field if particle physics. Division of labor. What exactly are you doing right no to right the world's wrongs?

originally posted by: Xeven
Is it going to produce food, health benefits, interstellar space flight, jobs or cheaper energy? If not it was a waste of time.

Ben Franklin had allegedly once said "What is the use of a newborn baby?" in response to someone asking "what is the use of..." various scientific discoveries. Franklin may or may not have actually said this (the quote has also been attributed to Michael Faraday), but the point made is still a valid one, whoever first said it.

A newborn baby is not useful, but that newborn will grow and may contribute to society in the future. Discoveries made at CERN (and other fundamental-type discoveries) may not have direct and tangible benefits to society, but the information learned at CERN may be (and has been in the past) built upon and eventually be applied to new technologies that do benefit society.

TrueBrit, I know that's not how scientists work. Its how engineers and scientists without grant money work lol. All I am saying is, its only a huge discovery to people who care about unseen particles, to every one else including engineers, it means very little.

In my opinion a better discovery would be finding the part of the brain responsible for stockholm syndrome....and cure it. Maybe finding the root cause of the casimir effect or something useful now or close to now.


We were promised flying cars.... this kind of thing feels like a slap in the face.