Evolution is a farce: Evidence

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: Barcs

The simple fact is there aren't ANY forms in between. It's also not true that our DNA is 87% the same as a chimp's.

The so-called "hominids" are nothing but people for the later ones, and apes and monkeys for the rest. Labeling them as human ancestors doesn't make it so. It's guesswork and wishful thinking.

I wasn't talking about debunked remains of "old humans", but actual remains of REAL humans, fro various races,found all over the Americas, and far older than it was once believed there were people present. That example isn't evolution-related; it's simply given to show how the status quo interferes with real science and research.

"Post a link"? I can't post a link to something I saw in person almost 20 years ago. The people who own the site never sought publicity for it, as they preferred to have it remain intact, and not be destroyed. If they have since decided to post online bout it, then happy hunting. You can choose to disbelieve it if you wish. I know what I saw.

You are attempting to compare spiritual beliefs with scientific ones, and they aren't the same. If you can't stay on topic, I won't continue to respond. Clear enough?

That's flat out ridiculous. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

You seem to have real issues with Hovind. Perhaps you should start a thread for those elsewhere.

Evolution is not a proven theory, and it never will be.

Here's the Journal of Human Evolution. This is one of over 500 journals and hundreds of scientists whose work has been repeated and verified. Please select one article from this journal and show that it's wrong. I don't care what the article is about - it can be your "footprint" or DNA or ancient humans - whatever you like. Just pick one out and tell us why it's wrong. That, of course, would include hard evidence that it's wrong - not speculation.

www.journals.elsevier.com...

originally posted by: peter vlar
This one Ill give you. Its more like 98%

Not even close.

originally posted by: peter vlar
Please, tell me which "so called hominids" fall into which categories then? What exactly makes it all guesswork?

Do your own homework. Hint - if it walks on its knuckles, it's a monkey or ape, not a man. If all the physical date fits into modern standards, and they draw it with more body hair, it's likely just a man.

originally posted by: peter vlare]
Could you please be more specific as to what your are claiming happened? It would be much easier to address a specific issue instead of issuing a blanket statement. Which races of humans have been found all over the Americas, where were they allegedly found and how old are the supposed to be?

Again, do your own homework. There are cases of ruins found that are very old, far older than accepted history would explain, and also of human remains (NOT hominids, actual humans) that are far older than it's accepted that people were in the Americas. When people have their careers threatened over such things, that shows real bias in the field. Do some research. You can locate documentaries on a lot of this stuff, and there are plenty of web pages on the ancient remains. Those remains are found from all races, not just Asian stock, as Amerind remains would be. There is a lot we don't know about the prehistory of the Americas, and mainstream scientists and others don't seem to want the data to be studied. Our own government has helped to literally bury some sites.

"Post a link"? I can't post a link to something I saw in person almost 20 years ago. The people who own the site never sought publicity for it, as they preferred to have it remain intact, and not be destroyed. If they have since decided to post online bout it, then happy hunting. You can choose to disbelieve it if you wish. I know what I saw.

You can't dispute science with faith. And that's exactly what your doing, asking people to believe your story on faith because you have nothing to support or back up your claims. No pictures of these alleged footprints? A location for where they are supposed to be? Any sort of information at all? As vague as you're being, its hard to believe that the site exists at all let alone what measurements and testing you took to ascertain the origin of said footprints aside from a brief visual survey. Can you describe how you determined they were from humans? Which mammalian prints were also there per your claim?

You are attempting to compare spiritual beliefs with scientific ones, and they aren't the same. If you can't stay on topic, I won't continue to respond. Clear enough?

Is it off topic because it actually hits home and you don't want to properly address it? Besides, you aren't backing up your claims with citations, you're just making blanket statements that you expect to be taken on faith so by your own words you're a massive hypocrite.

That's flat out ridiculous. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Is this a rebuttal regarding dating techniques? If there is plenty of evidence to the contrary, why not cite it and demonstrate your position?

You seem to have real issues with Hovind. Perhaps you should start a thread for those elsewhere.

There are plenty of threads discussing Hovind specifically on ATS. Bringing him up is actually quite relevant if you are indeed basing your position on his writings and not engaging in proper due dilligence which I hate to do, but must assume, that is the case because you haven't supported your statements.

Evolution is not a proven theory, and it never will be.

Except that everyone working in the biological sciences is aware that evolution is a fact. The only real dispute is amongst those who are YEC's. actually, let me correct that. I don't have recent figures but in 1987, out of 480,000 earth and life scientists in the US, only 400 did not believe in evolution. That is .0008%. Its such a minuscule number that its not even worth bothering with.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: Barcs

The simple fact is there aren't ANY forms in between. It's also not true that our DNA is 87% the same as a chimp's.

The so-called "hominids" are nothing but people for the later ones, and apes and monkeys for the rest. Labeling them as human ancestors doesn't make it so. It's guesswork and wishful thinking.

I wasn't talking about debunked remains of "old humans", but actual remains of REAL humans, fro various races,found all over the Americas, and far older than it was once believed there were people present. That example isn't evolution-related; it's simply given to show how the status quo interferes with real science and research.

"Post a link"? I can't post a link to something I saw in person almost 20 years ago. The people who own the site never sought publicity for it, as they preferred to have it remain intact, and not be destroyed. If they have since decided to post online bout it, then happy hunting. You can choose to disbelieve it if you wish. I know what I saw.

You are attempting to compare spiritual beliefs with scientific ones, and they aren't the same. If you can't stay on topic, I won't continue to respond. Clear enough?

That's flat out ridiculous. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

You seem to have real issues with Hovind. Perhaps you should start a thread for those elsewhere.

Evolution is not a proven theory, and it never will be.

So let's start an historical analysis of the evidence for closeness or lack of closeness of two known species: the human and the chimpanzee. Here's the first research paper. Tell us where they went wrong and how to fix it. Present your research or the research of others who have come to differing conclusions. We await your response.

www.nature.com...

When you're finished with this research paper, we'll move on to the next one - there are HUNDREDS of them in the scientific literature. And if they're all wrong, well then I think it's about time we start contacting these scientists and tell them that we have a person here at ATS who can prove definitively that they are all wrong!!

So get started. We're all waiting.

While you're up all night thinking about this, you can start a draft letter to this list:

Initial sequence of the chimpanzee genome and comparison with the human genome

The Chimpanzee Sequencing and Analysis Consortium25

1.Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard, 320 Charles Street, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02141, USA
2.Division of Health Sciences and Technology, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 77 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02139, USA
3.Genome Sequencing Center, Washington University School of Medicine, Campus Box 8501, 4444 Forest Park Avenue, St Louis, Missouri 63108, USA
4.Genome Sciences, University of Washington School of Medicine, 1705 NE Pacific Street, Seattle, Washington 98195, USA
5.Max Planck Institute of Evolutionary Anthropology, Deutscher Platz 6, D-04103 Leipzig, Germany
6.University of California, San Diego, 9500 Gilman Drive, La Jolla, California 92093, USA
7.Department of Genetics and Microbiology, University of Bari, 70126 Bari, Italy
8.EMBL, Meyerhofstrasse 1, Heidelberg D-69117, Germany
9.Max Delbrück Center for Molecular Medicine (MDC), Bobert-Rössle-Strasse 10, D-13125 Berlin, Germany
10.Children's Hospital Oakland Research Institute, 747 52nd Street, Oakland, California 94609, USA
11.Department of Genetics, Yale University School of Medicine, 333 Cedar Street, New Haven, Connecticut 06520, USA
12.Institute for Systems Biology, 1441 North 34th Street, Seattle, Washington 98103, USA
13.Department of Genetics, Case Western Reserve University, 10900 Euclid Avenue, Cleveland, Ohio 44106, USA
14.Department of Computer Science, Iowa State University, 226 Atanasoff Hall, Ames, Iowa 50011, USA
15.Department of Statistics, Harvard University, 1 Oxford Street, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138, USA
16.University of California, Santa Cruz, Center for Biomolecular Science and Engineering, 1156 High Street, Santa Cruz, California 95064, USA
17.Departamento de Bioquimica y Biologia Molecular, Instituto Universitario de Oncologia del Principado de Asturias, Universidad de Oviedo, C/Fernando Bongera s/n, 33006 Oviedo, Spain
18.The Pennsylvania State University, Center for Comparative Genomics and Bioinformatics and Department of Biology, University Park, Pennsylvania 16802, USA
19.Department of Structural Biology, Weizmann Institute of Science, Rehovot 76100, Israel
20.Department of Genetics, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts 02115, USA
21.Departments of Anthropology and of Organismic and Evolutionary Biology, Harvard University, 11 Divinity Avenue, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138, USA
22.Department of Systems Biology, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts 02115, USA
23.Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02142, USA
24.Department of Biology, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02139, USA
25.*Lists of participants and affiliations appear at the end of the paper

Correspondence to: Correspondence and requests for materials should be addressed to R.H.W. (Email: [email protected]) E.S.L. (Email: [email protected]) or R.K.W. (Email: [email protected]).

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

that reply was the laziest pile of S# I've seen on ATS in quite awhile. You made claims, not me. When asked to support and cite your claims you tell me to do my homework? Pathetic. I don't need to do my homework, my degree is in Anthropology and my graduate work involved cohabitation of Neanderthal and modern humans in the Levant. The only one who needs to do homework here is you. Now get off your high horse and support your pathetic baseless claims with appropriate citations or admit that it's all a big fluff and buff because you personally disagree with the general consensus held by all practitioners of the Biological and Earth sciences. If you actually want to discuss facts, I'm happy to do so IF you are willing to provide real citations as opposed to vague generalizations because otherwise your entire reply is a poor mans pun.

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

that reply was the laziest pile of S# I've seen on ATS in quite awhile. You made claims, not me. When asked to support and cite your claims you tell me to do my homework? Pathetic. I don't need to do my homework, my degree is in Anthropology and my graduate work involved cohabitation of Neanderthal and modern humans in the Levant. The only one who needs to do homework here is you. Now get off your high horse and support your pathetic baseless claims with appropriate citations or admit that it's all a big fluff and buff because you personally disagree with the general consensus held by all practitioners of the Biological and Earth sciences. If you actually want to discuss facts, I'm happy to do so IF you are willing to provide real citations as opposed to vague generalizations because otherwise your entire reply is a poor mans pun.

Peter, I suspect there will be another disappearing act by LadyGreenEyes. It's SOP.

a reply to: Phantom423

Oh I'm not even going to take that bet hahaha, it's a near certainty that said poster will bail and come back in a few more weeks and start the same hogwash all over again without providing a single citation while stamping feet and pouting at everyone else to do their homework to source claims made by our resident itinerant poster. The sad part is that unlike other posters like borntowatch for example, I don't think ladygreeneyes is a troll and actually believes what she posts to the core of her heart. I have no problem having a legitimate discussion with someone who doesn't understand or believe in the science as long as they're willing to support their arguments. Otherwise all we are doing is presenting facts in the face of personal proclivities and potential delusions.

About Hovind (aka Dr Dino) - this is the funniest thing I've read all day. It's too bad because I would have taken him up on his challenge.
pandasthumb.org...

IRS claims Kent Hovind’s $250,000 challenge; all mysteries of life now solved

By Nick Matzke on November 4, 2006 12:36 AM | 457 Comments


The latest from the Pensacola News-Journal is that Kent Hovind is in jail until sentencing in January, and the jury ordered the Hovinds to forfeit over $400k to the government:


‘Dr. Dino’ guilty on all counts Couple could get more than 200 years

Pensacola evangelist and tax protester Kent Hovind winked at his wife and gave her a reassuring smile as he was led away to jail.

Oblivious as always, I guess… By the way, now is the time to screen-capture the headine for future use.

Hovind is not really going to get 200 years in jail, probably more like six months is my bet, if the sentences of corporate scammers are any guide. So it won’t be long before he’s back on the road doing his thing. But at the very least his prospective fans should be informed before his talks that Hovind isn’t just a scientific joke and a fake “Dr.”, he is also a convicted felon.

The jury also granted the prosecution’s request for the Hovinds to forfeit $430,400. That amount equals the value of the checks signed and cashed by Jo Hovind in the 44 counts.

There’s the real story. For years, Hovind has been claiming that he was offering a $250,000 prize to anyone who could “prove evolution.” Of course, by “prove evolution” Hovind meant:


* NOTE: When I use the word evolution, I am not referring to the minor variations found in all of the various life forms (microevolution). I am referring to the general theory of evolution which believes these five major events took place without God: 1. Time, space, and matter came into existence by themselves. 2. Planets and stars formed from space dust. 3. Matter created life by itself. 4. Early life-forms learned to reproduce themselves. 5. Major changes occurred between these diverse life forms (i.e., fish changed to amphibians, amphibians changed to reptiles, and reptiles changed to birds or mammals).

That’s right, your friendly neighborhood biologist has to use evolution to answer fundamental cosmological questions, peer into the Planck epoch and solve all the mysteries of existence. And that’s just for step #1 of the challenge. Obviously, getting that $250,000 out of Hovind was impossible.

But now the IRS has gone and done the impossible. Clearly this means that the IRS is omniscient and omnipotent, and has the answers to all the mysteries of existence locked up in the basement, accessible if only you could find the right form to send them…


Categories: Legal Issues

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: Phantom423

Oh I'm not even going to take that bet hahaha, it's a near certainty that said poster will bail and come back in a few more weeks and start the same hogwash all over again without providing a single citation while stamping feet and pouting at everyone else to do their homework to source claims made by our resident itinerant poster. The sad part is that unlike other posters like borntowatch for example, I don't think ladygreeneyes is a troll and actually believes what she posts to the core of her heart. I have no problem having a legitimate discussion with someone who doesn't understand or believe in the science as long as they're willing to support their arguments. Otherwise all we are doing is presenting facts in the face of personal proclivities and potential delusions.

And that's a good point - you can't drag a citation or hard evidence out of any of them. They run for the hills and hide until they think no one is looking and then come back with the same bs. This is more of a mind game with them. It's an attempt to white wash critical thinking and replae it with a cult mentality. That's the goal of the leadership like Ken Ham and Hovind - destroy critical thinking.

I'm sure she'll be busy writing all those letters to the list of researchers I posted above -

a reply to: Phantom423

I rather appreciate your post divulging all there is to know about Hovind and his quackery. I didn't realize the true scope of his $250,000 challenge but now that I've seen it in print, it explains quite a lot about a couple of very specific minded posters on ATS who utilize the same criteria for their own definitions of evolution. It would seem as though Hovind is the grand master of their anti-evolutionary universe and parroting him is the closest to an original thought they can muster.

originally posted by: mwood
....
Same goes with evolution. No PROOF either way.

....
All the theories are just that. They are guesses as there is no proof, just some evidence. It all depends on how you interpret the evidence and what you believe. Like I said though it don't matter, your going to die like everyone else and the only thing that is a fact is that you have a short life here. What you decide to do with it is up to you.

I'm sorry? You can observe evolution happening. It's not faith. It's not "just some evidence".

a reply to: JameSimon

As always it comes down to people not getting that the term "theory" in a scientific sense holds much more meaning than their faith does. They feel, scientists observe and see the probability of it all.

well it seems today they can now show evolution in real time



link

enjoy the read