Keystone XL pipeline bill fails to pass US Senate by 1 vote

a reply to: quercusrex
Evil plant to the rescue again

a reply to: TKDRL

I would love to see that fiber be utilized to it's fullest. I'd still earn my $$$ building the processing plants for it.
I just dislike rhetoric being spewed by the ignorant.

originally posted by: canucks555

I wonder how much cash has already been spent, ....

In the case of payola to DC...apparently not enough...give it time.

a reply to: canucks555

Just wait - Monsanto will sue them.

a reply to: quercusrex

Hey buddy, computer manufacturing is not what's ruining our planet. It's the non-stop sucking of oil out of the ground, hand-in-hand with the non-stop burning of it on the surface. You want to know what's interesting to me? Some blow-hard injecting meaningless, flowery, pseudo-intellectual metaphors to TRY to sound superior. No one, except oil companies, believes that the way to grow is by continuing to burn oil. Why don't you do us all a favor and keep you discoveries of irony to yourself. OK?

a reply to: TownCryer

I'm just saying that the majority of the products that we use in our everyday lives are produced by hydrocarbons. Oil and natural gas make our daily lifestyles possible. It ain't just used for fuel. It's an uncomfortable fact, but true. Unless you maintain a tech level from the 1800's in your daily life then you're an oil consumer.

the pipeline running through alaska affords its citizens/residents to live free of state taxes?

from

But it's basically what the state's major oil producers -- BP, ConocoPhillips and Exxon Mobil Corp. -- tried to pull in 2010 in one of their persistent and ongoing attempts to lower the value of their 800-mile trans-Alaska oil pipeline, and the property taxes they pay on it.

what, is the carrot losing its flavor? too rich to extend to land/homeowners in this endeavor?

sorry if someone else already pointed it out.

a reply to: TownCryer

No corporation would waste time extracting, refining, and delivering if there wasn't eager customers waiting to buy.

Whether Joe Average wants to accept it or not, it is Joe Average's thirst for cheap energy and products that drives the oil industry, not the corporations.

This is precisely why there has been so much 'talk' over the last 30 years with so little 'action'.

Joe Average 'talks' about wanting a minimalist energy sector, and 'acts' like they just don't care.

Here's a nifty little list (144 out of 6000) of items made from petroleum products. How many did YOU use today?

A partial list of products made from Petroleum (144 of 6000 items)

One 42-gallon barrel of oil creates 19.4 gallons of gasoline. The rest (over half) is used to make things like:


Solvents
Diesel fuel
Motor Oil
Bearing Grease
Ink
Floor Wax
Ballpoint Pens
Football Cleats
Upholstery
Sweaters
Boats
Insecticides
Bicycle Tires
Sports Car Bodies
Nail Polish
Fishing lures
Dresses
Tires
Golf Bags
Perfumes
Cassettes
Dishwasher parts
Tool Boxes
Shoe Polish
Motorcycle Helmet
Caulking
Petroleum Jelly
Transparent Tape
CD Player
Faucet Washers
Antiseptics
Clothesline
Curtains
Food Preservatives
Basketballs
Soap
Vitamin Capsules
Antihistamines
Purses
Shoes
Dashboards
Cortisone
Deodorant
Footballs
Putty
Dyes
Panty Hose
Refrigerant
Percolators
Life Jackets
Rubbing Alcohol
Linings
Skis
TV Cabinets
Shag Rugs
Electrician's Tape
Tool Racks
Car Battery Cases
Epoxy
Paint
Mops
Slacks
Insect Repellent
Oil Filters
Umbrellas
Yarn
Fertilizers
Hair Coloring
Roofing
Toilet Seats
Fishing Rods
Lipstick
Denture Adhesive
Linoleum
Ice Cube Trays
Synthetic Rubber
Speakers
Plastic Wood
Electric Blankets
Glycerin
Tennis Rackets
Rubber Cement
Fishing Boots
Dice
Nylon Rope
Candles
Trash Bags
House Paint
Water Pipes
Hand Lotion
Roller Skates
Surf Boards
Shampoo
Wheels
Paint Rollers
Shower Curtains
Guitar Strings
Luggage
Aspirin
Safety Glasses
Antifreeze
Football Helmets
Awnings
Eyeglasses
Clothes
Toothbrushes
Ice Chest
Combs
CD's & DVD's
Paint Brushes
Detergents
Vaporizers

Americans consume petroleum products at a rate of three-and-a-half gallons of oil and more than
250 cubic feet of natural gas per day each! But, as shown here petroleum is not just used for fuel.

Petroleum products

For every temporary job the pipeline creates, it will take at least 1 PERMANENT job from other industry sectors. After the few years of laying the pipeline those permanent jobs will not come back.

Net loss on the jobs argument, sorry.

And where will the profits go? hmmmm

a reply to: Montana

Those "temporary" jobs will be filled with workers from the Pipeliners Union local 798. The project is temporary but their jobs aren't. They will go on to other projects after it's completed. Permanent jobs will be created, however, for the manufacturers of the pipeline components, the trucking companies, the instrument and control techs, and many others. That's the nature of industrial construction. We finish one project and then move on to the next.

a reply to: canucks555

Why fight it democrats? Once Republicans take over in a few months it will pass anyways! The people want this anyways, minus the few on here who complain about everything!

If this is going to lower my price per gallon at the pump? DO IT!!
If this is going to lower my heating bill in my home? DO IT!!
If this is going to create jobs and boost the economy? DO IT!!
If the treehuggers and democrats don't like it? WHO CARE!! DO IT ANYWAYS!!

Anything that will bring us closer to keeping the costs down of fuel/heating homes, etc....I am all for it!!

UNLESS....Someone comes up with a better, cleaner way of energy...Which they haven't, so for now....DO IT!!!

a reply to: quercusrex

How can permanent jobs be created by temporary demand? I think that is a little blue sky you are trying to sell us. The jobs being destroyed are also supplied by union labor in large part. Jobs that will last as long as the oil flows, not disappear into a hole in the ground after a couple years.

a reply to: Montana The members of the pipeliners union build pipelines. They're gonna keep building them whether it's for an oil line or to move water to Las Vegas.

The vendors and logistic support companies working on this project will add employees as needed to meet the demands of those contracts. People will get hired on and if they're good workers then they get to keep their jobs should there be a slowdown. The 3rd party companies can then cull the worthless from the ranks.

I really don't see how jobs will be destroyed by this or any other construction project. If your logic is sound then the new hospital being built downtown is also a job destroyer. I don't follow.

a reply to: quercusrex

Man lays pipe, hooks to next pipe, and again and again. Eventually pipe reaches destination. Oil flows, man goes somewhere else.

Woman loads oil in tank takes to destination, returns for more oil. This continues until no more oil comes out of the well. Woman continues to work. Another man builds a new road (highway or rail) to haul oil on. Big tanks require many road repairs. Man stays around and fixes road until oil stops flowing.

Other people haul other items in the same way in many places. They continue doing those jobs until the demand dies or the commodity is depleted. Those jobs don't go somewhere else either.

Sorry for sounding like a dolt, but that is what people who sing about the jobs the XL pipeline will create sound like to those of us who are already doing the jobs that the pipeline will destroy. Your five year job will take away our 40 year job. Net loss to the working public.

a reply to: Montana

I would think they would just move on to fix other roads, load other products into other tanks, and haul other commodities.


EDIT to add : Let me be clear. I understand fully that the jobs created locally in the construction area will be few and temporary. That is the nature of heavy construction. We travel to where the work is and when it's complete we leave. at all.

Let me repeat what I said in an above post, these workers will circulate a LARGE amount of money through the local economies. So, even if that's a temporary boom for a region it is better than no boom at all. Then they will go off and spend their money back in their home state and city.

a reply to: quercusrex

You WOULD think I am sure. But since these people would still be doing THOSE jobs, the other hauling jobs would be open to other people wouldn't they?

More lost jobs to the pipeline.

Really, there are scales of economics that make pipelines more frugal to the oil conglomerates, but to say it will create jobs is just nonsense. That oil isn't just sitting there waiting for someone to build a pipeline to take it somewhere. It is already being transported in several ways by many people.

originally posted by: TownCryer
Pipe Line vote failed? GOOD ! Instead of spending all that $ for yesterday energy, let's strat working on tomorrow's energy source. It's NOT fossil fuels. Stop trying to squeeze every last drop of oil out of the planet, and start tryuing to figure out a better way. Just an opinion.

HA! Are you new to the human race? We don't seriously work on solutions to problems until it's ready to kill us tomorrow.

a reply to: Montana

The available manpower in skilled trades right now is at an all time low. So all the welders, pipefitters, helpers, insulators, etc that go to work on the XL project are not available to work in the exploding industrial construction boom happening in the rest of the country.

These other projects now have to find and employ skilled craftsman and train new people to fill the empty slots. Supply and demand.

a reply to: quercusrex

I'm sorry, when I read "the XL pipeline will create jobs" I should have read " I will make a hundred bucks and to heck with the thousand I take from ten other people". And when confronted with this I will just imagine many other jobs being created to justify my position.

Got it.

If there is such a shortage of employees to fill the need in your field then there would be no reason to take jobs from others, would there?