Remove All Social Safety Nets

originally posted by: onequestion
we literally are the only ones who get our hands dirty, manufacturing, mining, logging, construction, its all the middle class making that happen. were the ones who build everything were the ones who run the equipment where mostly the ones with the working knowledge of how to build and repair.

Wow, you are a special kind of blind, aren't you?

I know a handful of people on my street alone that work in manufacturing that require government assistance to feed their children. Luckily for them, they are all middle class. I'll let them know.

a reply to: AgentShillington

Are they House Rich but Cash Poor?


What is your definition of 'Middle Class'?

a reply to: AgentShillington
I think the point being made is that by providing a small amount of welfare (and then demonising those who get it) it is is possible to maintain the current state even with all its faults and inequality.
Welfare is used as to divide and conquer (as at least one other post has demonstrated).
Obviously removing all safety nets is a terrible idea but as an intellectual exercise to demonstrate how bad things really are it's interesting.

a reply to: James1982

Oh yeah, look at other countries that has no social security safety, they surely are doing great, and poor people speaking out is doing a lot of great things for them self and their bright future....or not

The security they get is paid by you and i in form of aid, money that are just disappearing into thin air every single year, and very little goes to those who need it.

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: Tardacus
nah, lets go to the other extreme and give everyone government handouts.
The rich and the poor are already on the government gravy train and getting,subsidies, handouts, bailouts,kickbacks etc etc. so, how about letting the middle class in on the free stuff then we`ll all be happy.

someone has to produce everything and last time i checked its only the middle class that actually produce anything.

we literally are the only ones who get our hands dirty, manufacturing, mining, logging, construction, its all the middle class making that happen. were the ones who build everything were the ones who run the equipment where mostly the ones with the working knowledge of how to build and repair.

you could do away with the wealthy and you could do away with the poor and wed be fine but if you got rid of us in the middle guess what, everything crumbles. noone to build your house noone to manufacture your magazines and bibles, noone to serve you non of it, all gone.

I'm surprised to find myself disagreeing with you, as usually I find myself in agreement with your posts 100%.

But, as someone who has worked factory/warehouse positions his whole working life, neither me or my co-workers were anywhere near middle-class, we were working poor. The middle class used to produce, used to be the backbone of this country, but now the middle class is becoming much like the upper class, keeping their hands clean and profiting off the labor of those below them while talking about how bad they have it.

I'm not saying middle-class people have gone evil, but I am saying the jobs that USED to be middle-class paying jobs are now paying a working-poor level wage so the only middle-class left are those with soft hands.

I'm not saying middle-class paying labor/production jobs don't exist, but they are nothing compared to the labor/production jobs that the working poor do. I'm sure society could survive without those sitting at home collecting checks, but not without the working poor, who seem to be wholly ignored by both Republicans and Democrats.

a reply to: James1982

How would you propose to fix the problem? Create more jobs? Teach people how to take care of themselves and not depend on others? At one time we did not have government charity to hand out to everyone it was handled by the religious institutions. And it was short term and not a life style.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: AgentShillington
I think the point being made is that by providing a small amount of welfare (and then demonising those who get it) it is is possible to maintain the current state even with all its faults and inequality.
Welfare is used as to divide and conquer (as at least one other post has demonstrated).
Obviously removing all safety nets is a terrible idea but as an intellectual exercise to demonstrate how bad things really are it's interesting.

Can I hire you as my translator? I can't pay much but I give good back-rubs.

That is exactly what I was trying to say, thank you for putting it a way that hopefully will make more sense to others.

a reply to: James1982
As an economic distinction there is no difference between middle and working class. It is purely a social construct to do with culture and social norms. Richest guys on my street all do manual working class jobs.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: AgentShillington
I think the point being made is that by providing a small amount of welfare (and then demonising those who get it) it is is possible to maintain the current state even with all its faults and inequality.
Welfare is used as to divide and conquer (as at least one other post has demonstrated).
Obviously removing all safety nets is a terrible idea but as an intellectual exercise to demonstrate how bad things really are it's interesting.

Raising the minimum wage is a practical way to remove welfare from the equation without people needing to suffer. If people are paid enough money to live, then they aren't in need of government subsidies.

a reply to: James1982
I think it is interesting topic. If I could offer a piece of hopefully constructive criticism I think your op could have been a bit clearer about the overall point that you disagree with an economy that keeps people on welfare rather than welfare itself. Think you may have alienated posters who might actually agree with you. It is hard to pick up nuance from text.

I get what you are saying OP.
looking around, I see a lot of people using drugs doing meth, I think everyone is on some kind of pill due to depression or pain. They get assistance due to whatever reasons and usually it is children that normally the grandparents are raising. The grandparents provide clothes, food and shelter for these children. The addicts receive their assistance and then sell it for 1/2 or its worth so they can buy more drugs. Then when that is not enough they go to stealing to get buy their narcotics.

So many have lost all hope and have turned to the drugs and alcohol. Economy is bad, even if you are able to get a job it will not support you and your family. Most believe it is not anything left for them, I have seen way too many suicides in the last three years because these young men and women feel as though they are a failure and we as a society are judging them.

The people that have jobs point a finger and say go get a job. But if they do they lose all or most of their assistance and still cannot provide for their families. Daycare is outrageously expensive, who can afford it without government assistance? This is a no win situation for most.

For people to wake up and see how bad our country is they will have to see it for themselves. I for one would be very cautious but then again I could not turn a stranger down if he was hungry or a warm place to sleep if he was cold.

That would be interesting to remove all of those safety nets, as those who sit on as administrators of those safety nets would be out of a job right along with those who actually do the work being out of a job also.

It really would show people just how bad things actually are, even those breathing rarified air who occupy useless positions and do nothing anyway.

Maybe adopt the suggestions which appear on the Georgia Guidestones.

a reply to: AgentShillington
Agreed a decent living wage is needed. Not sure where you are from but in UK we have a ridiculous system of working tax credits that mean that rather than pay low income workers a decent wage or keep them out of tax brackets, they effectively get a welfare payment back. All this does is subsidise bad employers by letting them pay poverty wages and allows working poor to be portrayed as scroungers in right wing press.

Drug abuse and addiction are a symptom of "The Industrial Disease" which is really a societal disease and society itself is a disease.

People can't stand the pain of living a totally un-natural life and a meaningless existence anymore and they don't even consciously realize there is anything wrong, with all of the options for distraction there are to divert our attention from the agony we swim in every day.

I know, I stopped self medicating long ago.

a reply to: RunForTheHills

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: AgentShillington
Agreed a decent living wage is needed. Not sure where you are from but in UK we have a ridiculous system of working tax credits that mean that rather than pay low income workers a decent wage or keep them out of tax brackets, they effectively get a welfare payment back. All this does is subsidise bad employers by letting them pay poverty wages and allows working poor to be portrayed as scroungers in right wing press.

We have that here in the states too, effectively anyway.

Wal-Mart gets to pay poverty wages to employees that get food allowances from the government, meaning that I am paying Wal-Mart's employees to work for a company that I don't shop at because I don't like their politics. That saved money gets passed on to shareholders, who all get to make money on MY money.

This is the new capitalism.

And people wonder why I'm a Marxist.

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

the drugs are rampant here in the small communities around where I live, too many funerals in my family and friends due to drugs. I have had so many conversations with them and I hear the same old thing just in different expressions. They have no hope, no self esteem and feel as though they have no where to turn and they just give up and most do hope to die and a lot have committed suicide.

I use to be the working middle class but now I too am just the working poor, nothing left after the bills are paid.

Social safety nets are in place to protect the rich.

a reply to: AgentShillington
By European standards I am a left leaning social democrat. On the US political spectrum that probably makes me a dirty pinko commie.
I find it ironic how many people will criticise any form of social safety net, yet still support or not understand how much we subsidise both directly and indirectly big corporations.

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

That would be interesting to remove all of those safety nets, as those who sit on as administrators of those safety nets would be out of a job right along with those who actually do the work being out of a job also.

Exactly.

The domino effect would be astronomical, and would result in mass chaos running from the bottom all the way to the top. People who depend directly on safety nets would not be the only blocks to come crumbling down.

Today's economic structure is far far more vulnerable than people realize.

Anyone and everyone who works directly in those industries (from the janitor all the way up to the chief executive) would be out of a job instantly... followed by revenue losses to vendors/suppliers... transport/logistics... insurance/banking... government branches... etc etc.

We're talking hundreds of thousands of people and jobs across the country.

And when that happens, you've got a blood bath on your hands.

A very bad social experiment indeed.

I agree that all welfare should be stopped - it is entirely unnecessary. Naturally it would simultaneously be made possible for everone to feed, shelter and warm him/her self. As it is anyway, the Universe gives everyone the absolute right to use just sufficient land to maintain themselves till death, then of course someone else can use it. I have absolutely no problem with this.

If however, YOUR "society" chooses to deliberately prevent me from existing normally, (by idiotically trying to tell me that land can be "owned", when it patently CANNOT) - then YOU pay for it, your problem, NOT MINE.

(In reality your "society" refuses to pay for it, even after stealing my labour for over 35 years . Your "society" will NEVER get another brown penny out of me again - EVER!!)