The Masons

a reply to: che33

UM...yea. And just because symbols have different meanings to different people, doesn't diminish it's meaning to that person.
To early Egyptians, it was the eye of Ra, to Christians in the late 1500's, it was the eye of providence or the Eye of God. To voodoo priests in the Bayou, it may be the evil eye. But to each one of them, it's meaning is clear.

Symbolism is a way to convey information visually.

a reply to: che33
We Freemasons don't call the Statue of Liberty "Lucifer".

a reply to: intrptr
No. Freemasonry is not a religion. We don't meet the basic requirements to be one.

a reply to: che33
So there's no art that isn't religious?

Symbolism is the language of magic.

Symbolism is simply just communication. Whether or not it has to do with magic is up to the conveyor of that message.

If you look at its ancient landmarks, its sublime ceremonies, its profound symbols and
allegories-all inculcating religious observance, and teaching religious truth, and who
can deny that it is eminently a religious institution? . . . Masonry, then, is indeed a
religious institution; and on this ground mainly, if not alone, should the religious
Mason defend it.

The Masonic strategy is simple enough. First deny that Masonry is a religion and then
proceed to prove that it is.

Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings
are instruction in religion. What religion? Not Christianity or Judaism or Islam.
Rather Freemasonry is a religion which simply demands belief in God and immortality
and inculcates a natural morality of salvation by character.

He would worship the Grand Architect of the Universe in a Temple whose lodge room
features two chief articles of worship, an altar and a Volume of Sacred Law, usually but
not necessarily the Holy Bible. Surely, if Masonry were nothing but a mutual benefit
society, it would have no need for an altar. We find no altars in the board room of the
Metropolitan Life Insurance Company or in the lobby of the American Red Cross
headquarters.

If Freemasonry were to acknowledge its religious status, it would
compromise the position of thousands of Christian Masons and Protestant ministers
who wear the apron.

Its presence should also lead the contemplative Mason to view the ceremonies in which it
is employed with solemn reverence, as being part of a really religious worship.

Symbols:

A bird: A bird flies - which symbolizes a complex of meanings to the beholder - the abstract meaning it was meant to convey. When someone learns the art of looking past the visible symbol of the material world to the underlying rules and occult connections - the archetypes - the forces of what it represents. Because each symbol expresses an essential component of sacred science, profound esoteric wisdom can be encoded and read in the symbolism held in hieroglyphs and reliefs as well as in the geometry, volume and proportion and number symbolism incorporated into the temples. This symbolism acts not only as a repository of meaning but was itself a component of magical technologi.

Statue of liberty:
Lady Liberty has many names but mostly in history as Isis of Egypt, She is the Pagan mother Goddess of the Brotherhood, nearly always depicted dressed in robe, wearing a crown of thorns, and carrying the torch of illumination.

Temple of Isis at Philae close to the river nile located is southern Egypt were the city Philadelphia in Pennsylvania got its name from and one of Most AncientGrand Lodge of Pennsylvania is the city The Jesuit Pope francis "Francis Xavier" decides to visit when he comes to Usa September 22-27, 2015.
reply to: KSigMason

a reply to: che33

It's not a religion as it does not offer salvation, but who cares? If you are not a member, then it doesn't matter any more than the Pope being Catholic.

What religion are you and why?

a reply to: che33
I have looked at all of that, I've been through many initiatic ceremonies in Freemasonry. Freemasonry cannot be a religion or "religious institution" as, as I said before, we don't meet the basic requirements; nor are we a substitute for one. We advocate no sectarian faith or practice. We don't seek converts. We don't raise money for religious purposes. We have no theology and religious discussion is forbidden within the Lodge. We hold no sacraments. Our secrets are concerned with modes of recognition not salvation. Each member has his own faith of which the practice is left to him to perform.

Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instruction in religion.

Except its not

Rather Freemasonry is a religion which simply demands belief in God and immortality and inculcates a natural morality of salvation by character.

Except we don't do this.

He would worship the Grand Architect of the Universe in a Temple whose lodge room features two chief articles of worship, an altar and a Volume of Sacred Law, usually but not necessarily the Holy Bible.

Except the GAOTU is a generic term, not an actual god. It is manifested according to the faith of each member. As we have members of different faiths within the Lodge, we cannot elevate any one faith above another, so we use generic terms to keep harmony among the Brothers.

Having an altar and Bible does not make us a religion.

If Freemasonry were to acknowledge its religious status, it would compromise the position of thousands of Christian Masons and Protestant ministers who wear the apron.

There's nothing in Freemasonry that compromises anyone's faith, Christian or otherwise.

Your little excerpt on the Statue of Liberty still doesn't mean that we Mason refer to it as "Lucifer."

I study all the ancient religions.. I dont think anyone should put all your faith in 1 book what ever it may be.

I see teachings from the Mystery schools from Egypt, Kabbalah, King Salomon how heavy its connected with any freemasonic organisation from the days of the Knights Templar or any secret society.

How i see it It is and always been a creation of the Vatican,

But thats what and who I think is on the top of this pyramid organisation giving the orders.

The Jesuit white or black Pope is as much catholic as Crowley and its always been about Power, Religion and Control.

Now i belive in the light that we are from the light, now things aint always how it seems.. Jesus and Lucifer the morning star. The searpent stands for divine wisdom and for evill.

Like John dee "His only (but great and dreadful) error [was], that he mistook false lying Spirits for Angels of Light, the Divel of Hell . . . for the God of Heaven.

Now if there is a spiritual war i want learn as much i can before i enter afterlife. Its easy to be decived when you dont know about whats hidden.

But if you dont think altars or rituals has anything to do with religion.. thats fine.. But if it doesnt offer salvation is normally not a good thing.



reply to: network dude

a reply to: che33

In your opinion how does the Vatican give orders to each lodge and make sure the lodge leaders follow them? If the Vatican controls Freemasonry then why does the Catholic Church tell their members not to join and one of the leading groups in spreading anti-masons views?

a reply to: che33

Ah yes, the old "top of the pyramid" BS. Next year, when you take 'Conspiracy 102', you will learn that all that is crap.
Here is a term I think you should try to learn and understand IN CONTEXT. On the Level. That's masonry. an equal playing field for all. A place where a garbageman can order a senator around if it's his turn in the east.

And each mason has his own religion for his salvation. That's why masonry doesn't offer any.

a reply to: che33
I study religion as well, both ancient and modern.

How i see it It is and always been a creation of the Vatican

What has?

But thats what and who I think is on the top of this pyramid organisation giving the orders.

Not in Freemasonry. There is no central authority or leader in Freemasonry. Freemasonry is decentralized with far too many variables to fit into a pyramid structure that is controlled by the Vatican or any other cabal.

But if you dont think altars or rituals has anything to do with religion.. thats fine.. But if it doesnt offer salvation is normally not a good thing.

Neither altars nor rituals make a religion.

Freemasonry doesn't deal with salvation because it is not a religion. One's salvation is defined according to the one's faith.

Look not all priest are pedofiles or members of the Jesuits, The Superior General of the Society of Jesus He is generally addressed as Father General Adolfo Nicolás Pachón the black Pope has the power in the vatican.. Its actually quite amazing how organised they are

Its not easy to explain because there is a lot of history and religious belives and diffrent Cabals as well but in short how they work today:

How they can control a organisation for example if the cia director is a freemason working for the jesuits does it matter what the rest are? if you have a republican and a democrate both members does it matter who you vote for?

So having key people in right positions is how they work.

It doesnt matter if you are jew, muslim, catholic, christian, freemason as long you work for them.

I am talking every major secret society is been created or infaltraded and used as a tool for the vatican.

It is absolutly insane and it gets even worse because when you understand all the wars, bank crashes, revolutions and dictators they have created.

So Rothchilds who is a Baphomet worshipper is working for the society same as all royal families in the world and if you dont do as you been told you will end up dead as many Presidents and Royals Popes have faced. When you put all of these in place they are the most powerful organisation in the world.

Roman empire never fell. And when you study every catholic country in the world how corrupt and poor they are tells you alot how they control people. Religion is used for control and power.

Every organisation has a role to fullfill and sometimes you need to work together to achive the goals. The enemy is middle class protestants and countries and persons who are indepentant.

You see when usa was a threat in 50-60s good economy, strong middle class, manufacturing and alot of export.. so in 50 years manufacturing gone, bad economy, middle class gone and thats how they want it 1% controlling the masses.

Strong indepentant is much harder to control then poor thinking of the next meal.

Another thing is wars they never fight them becuase its expensive but they can create wars and let other countries do the fighting and pay the bills.

And of course Israel and mount zion is and always been a mayor plan for the Vatican so you will never see peace there.


So when the catholic church says that we should fight poverty when they could stop all the poverty in the world.. Says alot what they really are about.






reply to: nancyliedersdeaddog

Luciferianism is a belief system that includes both theistic and secular denominations and is, therefore, heavily influenced by personal perspectives and experiences. Considered by many to be a religion and by some to be a philosophy or way of life, Luciferianism as a whole has no specific dogma to which its “followers” adhere. Rather, it is a deeply personal outlook with numerous variations ranging from the veneration of a literal deity and the practice of occultism to a secular set of principles, using mythological references as a form of symbolism and cultural tradition.




a reply to: KSigMason

originally posted by: che33
Its not easy to explain...

If you cannot explain something simply then you really do not understand the topic.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: che33
Its not easy to explain...

If you cannot explain something simply then you really do not understand the topic.

The older I get, the more I realize that this is one of the fundamental truths in life.

originally posted by: che33

So Rothchilds who is a Baphomet worshipper is working for the society same as all royal families in the world and if you dont do as you been told you will end up dead as many Presidents and Royals Popes have faced. When you put all of these in place they are the most powerful organisation in the world.

You have no idea, do you?
Some of us don't worship Baphomet - Baphomet begs us to serve us!

originally posted by: che33
Luciferianism is a belief system that includes both theistic and secular denominations and is, therefore, heavily influenced by personal perspectives and experiences. Considered by many to be a religion and by some to be a philosophy or way of life, Luciferianism as a whole has no specific dogma to which its “followers” adhere. Rather, it is a deeply personal outlook with numerous variations ranging from the veneration of a literal deity and the practice of occultism to a secular set of principles, using mythological references as a form of symbolism and cultural tradition.




a reply to: KSigMason

When you rip some information from the internet Be kind enough to post your sources, otherwise folks might think you were smart enough to post that on your own.

why dont you explain to me what luciferian is to you? Because maybe i got it wrong..

Adam and Eve was held prisoner in garden of eden..By i cruel and unjust God.. that lucifer set them free from this prison.. by given the gift of intellect. Thru the gift of intellect man will conquer nature and become God. Isnt it that what every secret society teaches about Luciferian?

They dont belive in God or the Devil thats why they dont oppose surtent crimes because its a learning experience.

Because of learning experiances you become a better person.

reply to: Saurus

I don't know much about the Luciferian experience... but... I can say I have had the masonic experience(s).
It starts off at the moment of inspiration. An idea. A Chance to enlighten and impress myself and others.
They say... when you get inspired... you have nowhere to go but up. Rising.
That inspiration leads to the Entered apprentice grade which is typically just an obsession... obsessed with the idea so much that I blab it out to whoever is willing to listen. Then when it becomes a forfeited idea.... I rise to the fellow craft grade wherein found is my mind and body working against my idea and so much so that I become frustrated.
Frustration is wherein I battle my body and mind to preserve the idea I cannot save.
That in turn leads to master mason degree... wherein found is depression.
Instead of rising to the top of the craft... I find that there is an idea greater than the one I had.
Hence... something lingering over my head... greater than my idea. Inspiration becomes folly.
Afterwards.... I find that it is time to sing the blue lodge song titled "the blues" or "woe is me".

Once at the 3rd degree... the idea is no more... it is replaced by a solid idea not my own which is crafted to suit the logic I now possess... Hence craftsmen. Of stone. A solid idea that cannot be undone.
Inspiration did that to me.
Losing my idea in that fashion hurts. Thus... they say "what goes up"... "must come down!"

A mouth full of spit just waiting to go down into the stomach. A thing they say means "is too much!"

a reply to: Pinocchio

Entered Apprentice = Obsession, who's color is purple.
Fellow Craft = Frustration, who's color is red.
Master Mason = Depression, who's color is blue.

These are the comedies and ironies of God.
The colors of the tabernacle which destroys ideas and men who are proud.
Usually done in by the logic of a more experienced master.
Swallowing spit is what leads to a courteous depression... aka funny.

Fellow Craft is the mind and body in unison... overwhelming a fool with an idea.
Hence... I am a foolish experience... nothing to be proud of. BUT!
But... it can help to make one better rather than bitter.
If bitterness is all one becomes... then there is the idea that he is hopeless.

Do not be bitter.... and do not be proud. God can and will punish you!

A Master Mason is a grand experience. Learn to be well with their logic. It is mind over matter.

If you must succumb to a courteous depression... at least know it leads to singing the blues.
Understanding... is the biblical version of the blues.
Wow is me... is the individual version of the blues.
Blues... is the masonic version of the blues.

Inspiration... is awesome... find it... but be ware... it can hurt you when you rise.

Note: stomach is pronounced: is too much.

Be better not bitter.


It is good to know you can rise... but it is nice to know "what goes up... must come down!"
It is bad to know your idea will not rise higher than the truth... it will be there when you rise... to let you know there is something lingering over your head... it is sad when you have inspiration.

hmm.. so lets say that the idea is true that you only use 10% of your brain but there are ways to use 100%.. then you might think that power of thought is longer a idea its reality and that reality is what you actually can do.. that time is something you can bend as easy like travel in space.. only created by power of thought

only way to do so is to open your 3 eye like you do when you dream but awake as looking at your self in 5 diffrent ways truly free from this body of matter.. to open your 3 eye you need to use left and right side of the brain like pair of eyes perfect balance as a pyramid center of earth.

Death come to all even to the brightest star/sun but does not mark the end of time, merely the end of the current cosmic era.

that a mouth full of spit just waiting to go in your stomuch is the thing they say is to much is actually true..

all the answers is inside you.. could that be true? That would make lucifer and jesus the same as you..



a reply to: Pinocchio

a reply to: che33
Freemasonry is not about apotheosis.