Satellite photo of fighter jet zapping MH17

originally posted by: KnightLight

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h


Here's the thing...Why would Ukraine be operating the missile system as they hadn't had a problem with fighter jets in Ukraine, but the separatists did, as they had shot down planes days before this incident.

I don't know but they are acting guilty. Maybe someone had a motive to hit that particular plane and based on the separatists shooting planes down earlier they had cover for it since why would they be operating anti aircraft missiles?

This picture in this thread is fake to me.

Like I ended my last post I don't know, but Ukraine has my attention.

You mean the story that Vladmir Putin's plane was suppose to have come through there?
Was that not mentioned as well... so mh17 was targeted thinking it was Putin..
And the group on the ground tweeted right after hitting an aircraft?

a reply to: smurfy

can translate

The linked article is the translated transcript of the video.

Update: Colonel Cassad reports that the still photograph first appeared on the Web on Oct 15, here (allow time for the autotranslator to work through the page). I’ve inserted the high-resolution copy of the photo (7406×5000) direct from that post. You can see Donetsk airport, to the west.

7406×5000

a reply to: KnightLight

But who knows?

Posted just before this leak:

Russian silence on MH17

But the Russians, with their gradual leaks, are telling the USA "keep accusing us and we will leak more". So in "real world diplomacy" these leaks are threats. I am also sure that the Russians are telling the US "look, you botched your false flag, now don't come crying to us - deal with it, bury it if you want, but don't come pissing us off with those ridiculous accusations or else more leaks will happen".

a reply to: maghun

Except that as it was pointed out the Google Earth photos from 2008 are a match to the cloud cover in the image, making it a fake.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: smurfy


What's interesting is that you can't find anything on George Bilt as being an expert in aviation, and you also have to remember where the source is coming from. Russia's channel 1, not the most credible for information regarding Ukraine.

I understand all the pros and cons, that's why I like to keep a very open mind on stuff like this, and especially here with the all parties involved not exactly shining lights of democracy or innocence. A dirty deed was done, we don't really know who was responsible, and IMHO that's the way we should respond, with open minds not, "they dunnit"

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: maghun

So a source from Russia, confirming that it was a Ukrainian MiG firing the missile. Confirmation bias? What's that?

One big problem is that they claim the missile was fired "at the cockpit". Missiles don't track on the cockpit, they track on the largest radar return on the aircraft, for a radar guided missile, which would have been the center fuselage. Especially from this angle. A radar guided missile would fired from slightly behind and to the side like this would have homed in on the center or aft fuselage, not the cockpit.

Would there be any way for it to hit the cockpit of the pilot of MH17 saw it at the last second and tried to avoid? Was there any flight data that suggested MH17 made an erratic movement just prior to going down?

a reply to: KnightLight

I don't know but they are acting guilty. Maybe someone had a motive to hit that particular plane and based on the separatists shooting planes down earlier they had cover for it since why would they be operating anti aircraft missiles?

Who is acting guilty...Russia or Ukraine?

Honestly as it has been said many times before that this downing wasn't intentional, but more than likely a mistaken plane.

This picture in this thread is fake to me.

And most who see it.

Like I ended my last post I don't know, but Ukraine has my attention.

Well that is your opinion and I understand that, but remember only a certain few know what happened and IMO Putin is at the top of the list, and right behind him would be Igor Strelkpov, and Pavel Gubarev from the separatistsand some higher ups in the Russian military.

Here is another thing that seems odd...the fact that the original separatist leaders have all gone back to Russia and they were the ones who made the call about the plane makes on wonder what did they know and was Russia scared they may talk if caught while fighting. Questions such as that is what I would love to see answered.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

They'd be hard pressed to see it at that angle, but there's no way that the 777 could maneuver that hard, at that closing speed.

originally posted by: maghun
a reply to: smurfy

can translate

The linked article is the translated transcript of the video.

Update: Colonel Cassad reports that the still photograph first appeared on the Web on Oct 15, here (allow time for the autotranslator to work through the page). I’ve inserted the high-resolution copy of the photo (7406×5000) direct from that post. You can see Donetsk airport, to the west.

7406×5000

thanks for that, I got a good amount from what is said to have happened where you can see in english in the letter on the video.



You will be able to read the letter easier if you right click and copy and paste the URL

Also, there is another anomaly in that image. The passenger jet is being lit by the sun on its starboard (right) side and by checking the sun's position in that location on July 17 2014 at 1320 (1:20 pm), the sun is in the right place to give the light and shadow pattern shown on the plane's fuselage.

You can check this on Sun Calc .net, where I have set up the page with the above details and location just a little NE of Donetsk, as the plane is shown in the image. (Just toggle the little "sun" on the time line at the top and you can see the sun's passage in the image.)

However, the fighter jet is another story. Take a look at this image.

[Note: I've simply copied and pasted a duplicate of the passenger jet into the "blow up" image of the fighter jet and slightly enlarged it for easier comparison. (I have not tilted the passenger jet image, only "translated" it into position.)]

While the sun on the big jet is pretty well as it should be, to my eye it looks like the sun is shining on the fighter jet more from its front and also from a higher angle, judging from the amount of glare. To get that effect, the sun would need to be shining from practically the opposite direction to where it really was at that time of day.

That jet should've had the sun almost directly behind it if was really there. In that case, the forward section of its wings would not be so well lit, seeing as it appears to be in near-level flight.

So, although that original image might be MH 17, IMHO that fighter jet wasn't there at all. It was "shopped in".

a reply to: teamcommander

If I had to make a guess

I'm just a laic, but the Russians are always tricky. First they told us it was probably a Su-25. Now we see an image of Mig-29 (or Su-27?) from the right side of 777.

First cannon attack theory in a picture, but every time it was mentioned that the cockpit was shot from both sides.



Cannon, missile? Two or three attacks? One thing is sure:

Start “Buk” is accompanied by a fiery cloud, a deafening roar that can be heard within a radius of up to 10 km, and inversion followed which is clearly observed in the sky for up to 10 minutes. In short, there was most likely no “Buk”, no start from the ground. In the presence of district disaster dozens of professional observers from all sides and thousands unprofessional, no one has seen or recorded.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Was there any flight data that suggested MH17 made an erratic movement just prior to going down?

Off course...

Of f course trajectory of debris field proves that MH-17 deviated 14 miles to the left

MH17Analysis

a reply to: maghun

And just how many people do you think were hanging around outside in the middle of a war zone, when there had been fighting nearby recently?

AP reporters witnessed a missile launcher in the area before the plane was shot down. Local residents reported one or two loud blasts, followed about a minute later by another explosion.

a reply to: JustMike

Excellent effort, but wasn't it 1320 UTC, not MSK which would be the local time?

Also, the image is taken clearly over Donetsk, but the crash site is approximately 60 km northeast of Donetsk (where it appears your Sun Calc locus is).

My issue is the missile track... Juvenile in the shop job, with the assumption the fighter aircraft was stationary (no trail behind the aircraft), and modern missiles leave almost no exhaust trail, especially downrange... Google some air launch videos. I doubt any missile track would be visible from a satellite perspective...

a reply to: maghun

They were NOT off course, they were steered to avoid traffic ahead of them.

ATC Transcript

Notice the calls at 1319:

13:19:49
"Malaysian one seven, due traffic proceed direct to point ROMEO NOVEMBER DELTA."

13:20:00
"Malaysian one seven, and after point ROMEO NOVEMBER DELTA expect direct to TIKNA."

They were deviated by ATC to avoid a flight that was ahead of them, which is the reason that they were not allowed to climb higher.

This raises some questions as well...

This shows a flight track well north of Donetsk...

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

mistaken plane.

Really? Another "mistake":

Here is another thing that seems odd

Yuri Boychenko, had said that (as auto-translated by google), “the results [of the investigation] will be announced upon completion of the investigation and with the consent of all the parties who signed the corresponding agreement.” This UNIAN report said that, “As part of the four-party agreement signed on August 8 between Ukraine, the Netherlands, Belgium and Australia [all of which nations are allies of the United States and are cooperating with its new Cold War against Russia], information on the investigation into the disaster Malaysian ‘Boeing-777’ will not be disclosed.”

a reply to: maghun

That is a pretty amazing pic! A quick check of aircraft profiles suggests that this is accurate. MH17 looks exact.

The fighter firing the missile looks like a Ukrainian SU27, not the much vaunted SU25. This is what I have been saying consistently (see www.abovetopsecret.com...).

Here is the original pic, posted by the OP, note the fighter profile and vague markings inset:

View in full: files.abovetopsecret.com...

Let's compare SU25 and SU27 profile pictures with the above image. Here is the much vaunted SU25:



Nope, it is not the same fighter type, obviously.

Here is the SU27:



I think we have a match! Look closely, you can see the camouflage markings and even the Ukrainian air force symbol on the wings. I am not certain what actual SU27 aircraft we have in the OP's pic, but I would guess that it is:



Before I say for sure I would need better pics and intel regarding crew and aircraft positioning...

As for the attack position of the SU27 we can surmise that the attack profile is okay, but extremely close. Good for radar guidance and okay (not brilliant) for IR but certainly more than good for success. Weather seems good too.

The only thing is, this pic is too good to be true. In addition anecdotal evidence speaks of a second fighter in the area. Can't see it here, but that is not a surprise really - it could be out of frame west of MH17. This leads me to checking time of day, when the picture was taken.

MH17 crashed around 4.20pm local time. This means that the sun should have been in the west. In the OP pic it seems that MH17 has shadows indicating that the sun is to the south east, meaning morning time.

Please correct me if am wrong. But if the sun is in the east then this pic can only be false.

But, of course I might be wrong if I haven't seen the shadows correctly.

a reply to: Blister

It was also pointed out that the weather is an identical match for a Google Earth picture taken in 2008. The clouds are in the exact same place in the 2008 picture as they are in this picture.

a reply to: Zaphod58

And just how many people do you think were hanging around outside

Sadly a lot of people trying to live as usual, because they are at home. (The ukrainian artillery attacks markets full of people, in contrast even animals have "temporary peace agreement" around wells...)

Was the impact caught on camera?



Or eye witnesses in BBC report seeing a bigger and smaller plane (definitely not at 30.000 feet)?

Loud noise, huge contrail, no video?