Is the United States Political System Broken Beyond Repair?

a reply to: Gryphon66

It really doesn't look like any of this amounts to jack squat. End the end not a single republican house member voted for the pile of crap.

And since then the republicans have had upheaval. Any republican these days that gets near a favorable position on what to do with the bill is subject to being un-elected next time around.

And all this crying now about partisan politics. That's what got the AHCA passed in the first place! Now that its threatened the whining starts, folks want to hold hands and sing kumbaya. Yea well bulls**t.

Of course not. Facts don't matter.

It doesn't matter that the President's team worked with both Democrats and Republicans to develop a plan that would pass.

It doesn't matter that the individual mandate is a Republican idea, that was supported for decades as the solution to the healthcare crisis in this country.

It doesn't matter that the legislation that became the PPACA WAS DEVELOPED BY BIPARTISAN COMMITTEES.

Facts don't matter.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Gryphon66

It really doesn't look like any of this amounts to jack squat. End the end not a single republican house member voted for the pile of crap.

And since then the republicans have had upheaval. Any republican these days that gets near a favorable position on what to do with the bill is subject to being un-elected next time around.

And all this crying now about partisan politics. That's what got the AHCA passed in the first place! Now that its threatened the whining starts, folks want to hold hands and sing kumbaya. Yea well bulls**t.

I'm sure you don't see the delicious irony in your post.

I posited that rabid partisanship was part of the cancer that is eating away at our country. (I was talking about your post previously, btw)

And you just proved the point of mindless partisanship better than I could ever have.

Good job, Log.

The system isn't corrupt, only the people.

Change the people, change the system.

Stop voting for Dems and GOP, both are broken.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Well I am certainly not one to shy away from being partisan. Especially now when the "tag" is being used to muddy points of an issue.

Besides this is ATS. This isn't a monolith of one sort of political position or another type of club.

Besides that I have been reading most of the political treads post election. Lots of crying and hand holding.....lamenting defeat by bashing the two party system ect. Very predictable.

originally posted by: AgentShillington
The system isn't corrupt, only the people.

Change the people, change the system.

Stop voting for Dems and GOP, both are broken.

I don't disagree with you that it is the people involved not the system that is broken.

Refraining from voting doesn't change anything. It just allows others to make your choices for you.

What is the solution?

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Gryphon66

Well I am certainly not one to shy away from being partisan. Especially now when the "tag" is being used to muddy points of an issue.

Besides this is ATS. This isn't a monolith of one sort of political position or another type of club.

Besides that I have been reading most of the political treads post election. Lots of crying and hand holding.....lamenting defeat by bashing the two party system ect. Very predictable.

I'll speak out against the two-party system as long as one of the two-parties remains in power. I did it during Bush, I do it during Obama, and I'll do it again when Hilary is elected. When you can predict the winner of an election before the candidates have even announced their candidacy, it's time for a change.

ETA:

a reply to: Gryphon66

Who said to refrain from voting??? I vote in -every- election. There are always other candidates. I voted Green Party last presidential cycle. I voted for the Legalize Marijuana Now party for governor of my state and AG.

There is always a choice.

a reply to: Logarock

No you aren't shy and neither am I.

Muddying points of an issue? Like your direct and repeated misrepresentations (i.e. lies) about the ACA?

No one's lamenting defeat. You won in a MIDTERM year by a few percentage points. Big deal. We "won" by 10 million votes in 2012. But now, government is good! Long live the two party system! It's just funny that Republicans were only worried about Statism when the Democrats were in power ain't it?

.....

You see, Logarock, folks like you and I are not the solution; we are the problem.

a reply to: AgentShillington

I stand corrected.

I hope your way wins, Shillington.

a reply to: AgentShillington

I would have voted all 3rd party but there were only a few on the ballet. In that I mean that I would have voted for one 3rd party in particular over the two primary parties or other 3rd parties. However I did vote for two 3rd party candidates, who were not my first 3rd party choice, as protest vote.

However when confronted with the choice between the two big parties I vote accordingly.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: AgentShillington

I stand corrected.

I hope your way wins, Shillington.

Sadly, I can't do it alone, but it's gaining momentum.

Jill Stein, of the Green Party, took over 1% of the popular vote last presidential election. The most successful female presidential candidate in US history. All without taking even a single cent of corporate contributions. Compare that to Hilary Clinton, who took millions from corporate contributions and didn't even get her party's nomination. If we get a few more parties involved in politics, even without getting the money out of politics, it gets MUCH more expensive for corporations to buy ALL of the candidates.

a reply to: Logarock

I never vote for one of the two parties. Even if there is only two choices, I write in someone else. I've voted for my neighbor. I've voted for myself.

I vote for myself quite often for judge.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Our inherited inertia will take a while to correct. Some voting still has purpose, especially at the local level. Other than the reply I posted on the 2nd page I have only this quote to directly respond to the question you posted (the quote + the legacy of the author that follows, if interested). Sorry if it was not directed at me but I felt you were asking a really good question that I believe is the inevitable destination arrived at once the illusion's cracks start to show.

“Though the problems of the world are increasingly complex,
the solutions remain embarrassingly simple.”
― Bill Mollison

The politicians that are at the wheel steering our country through the legislation they enact, should be sober when they work!

Looking at the mess the US of A is in, it would seem that a bunch of drunks have been passing their lobbyists bills without ever bothering to read them.

a reply to: Gryphon66

No we are not the problem.

And I am not representing what happened with the AHCA. I hear what you are saying. What I am saying is this idea that the republicans were in bed with the AHCA is really not a good total picture or definition. You are trying to sell the idea of some general republican hypocrisy when in fact not a single republican voted in favor of it in the house. That hardly supports your drift.

By the way and really.....Does anyone on this thread believe that 3rd parties are not partisan? Like the 3rd parties are an answer to this problem?

originally posted by: Logarock
By the way and really.....Does anyone on this thread believe that 3rd parties are not partisan? Like the 3rd parties are an answer to this problem?

Parties, by definition, are partisan. Partisanship isn't the problem. The ideals expressed by the parties involved are the problem. The Democrats are Liberal Corporatist. The GOP are Conservative Corporatist.

en.wikipedia.org...

As a Marxist, I am opposed to Corporatism, and as such, I am opposed to both major political parties in the United States. I have more in common with the Libertarian party, for instance, than I do with the Democratic Party, even if MOST Libertarians are former Republicans.

a reply to: Logarock

It's not "an idea," it's a fact. The Republicans worked with the Democrats to draft the bill, and then bailed on it and opposed it "100 %" when it included one of the biggest features that Republicans had been proposing for decades, the individual mandate.

Do you deny that?

Do you deny that the Senate Finance Committee with both Dems and Reps drafted the legislation that was merged with the product from the House?

I don't have to "sell" the idea of Republican hypocrisy; it's obvious.

Do you deny that the Heritage Foundation put forth the idea of the individual mandate as opposed to single payer plans (so as not to "give anything away"?

Do you deny that every Republican sponsored healthcare plan from the 90s to the present included an individual mandate?

Do you deny that the plan known as Romneycare established in Massachusetts by Governor Romney which included the individual mandate was endorsed by Republicans up to and during the debates on PPACA?

If you do, you're either ignorant of the facts, or misrepresenting them.

Do you need the links and citations again?

a reply to: Logarock

Okay, so throw the third parties out as well.

What is your solution, Logarock? Should everyone just become Republican?

if a name is on a ballot, it should also have an option of 'no-confidence in candidate' explicitly, so when n/c votes are counted that name gets removed from all ballots then and thereafter...3% should suffice.

i would spend my votes on ending careers for those appointed to create jobs, and fail to produce anything but a paycheck for themself.
ofcourse, we still have to rely on honest election workers too.

a reply to: loveguy

I like that idea! Maybe we can get some crypto form of voting that has extreme oversight so you could vote from your smart phone and the result will more closely match the collective intent. On the program could be some political version of "rotten tomatoes" that tallies all criticisms and praise to give a percentage that helps the more ignorant voters quickly educate themselves on what they will be voting on and why. I would imagine a sharp increase in voter "turnout" if a more refined version of this system could actually work.