Jessie Ventura: "Military Doesn't Fight for our Freedom

a reply to: AgentShillington

I'll have to disagree. Almost all the military personnel joined to make a living, out of patriotism, for free schooling, or some other reason. I doubt you would find anyone who joined the military and left everything they loved behind. Just so they can go knowingly and willingly fight for corporate interests. Saying that is the same as saying anyone who votes are knowingly and willingly voting to push the interests of corporations.

What's really going on is most people are just oblivious to the real problems. Not everyone reads conspiracies or thinks outside the box, because they're all to busy having the next iPhone or making sure the bills are paid. I was in the military at one point and thought I was doing the right thing as most do. The problem is a corrupt government.

what a soldier is, summed up neatly at 33 secs in this clip;

originally posted by: amicktd
a reply to: AgentShillington

I'll have to disagree. Almost all the military personnel joined to make a living, out of patriotism, for free schooling, or some other reason. I doubt you would find anyone who joined the military and left everything they loved behind. Just so they can go knowingly and willingly fight for corporate interests. Saying that is the same as saying anyone who votes are knowingly and willingly voting to push the interests of corporations.

What's really going on is most people are just oblivious to the real problems. Not everyone reads conspiracies or thinks outside the box, because they're all to busy having the next iPhone or making sure the bills are paid. I was in the military at one point and thought I was doing the right thing as most do. The problem is a corrupt government.

You seem to have misunderstood me, and I feel the problem was my very long sentence.

"The military personnel aren't innocent in this situation. I understand conscription, and have no problem with those forced to fight, but if you are volunteering for a military that you know is being used to be a publicly funded group of cleaners making sure everything is ready for corporate takeover, then you are more responsible than many here would like to admit."

I'm not blasting all service members. I have service members in my family, and I don't believe they are evil. In fact, many of those folks that aren't aware of what is actually happening find out too late and are devastated by what they find.

However, there is a certain section of the military that I have absolutely no tolerance or respect for.

Recruiters.

They know what it's like and misrepresent what is going on to further add to the ranks. Completely disgusting individuals. No excuses.

a reply to: Spruce

Afghanistan and Iraq were about freedom for those countries, not us.

Really? "Reason" for Afghanistan:

a reply to: AgentShillington

The vast majority who serve join in their teens and early twenties. At that age, they all are a bit naive and impressionable. I have nothing against recruiters, they are simply doing their job. I write this and I even have somewhat of idea of the training they are given to help persuade qualified young men and women into signing up. Most of them become recruiters simply because they are sociable and love talking to others.

The military is full of decent jobs, and in my opinion there are far worse corporations a person can find themselves working for. Many wake up to the reality that the military is not in the middle east and elsewhere to 'keep us safe', many more do not. They say ignorance is bliss.

a reply to: maghun

Yah, the one success in Afghanistan is increased opium production. Pretty hard to miss those fields from the air. Not many bombs falling there.

There is no draft in America, but younger people fresh out of hi school have fewer prospects than ever before. They are undereducated, underemployed and looking for alternatives to quickly becoming a failure.

The door that opens wide for them is the military. They are hiring.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: AgentShillington

I have nothing against recruiters, they are simply doing their job.

The Greatest Crimes Against Humanity Are Perpetrated by People Just Doing Their Jobs

The greatest crimes of human history are made possible by the most colorless human beings. They are the careerists. The bureaucrats. The cynics. They do the little chores that make vast, complicated systems of exploitation and death a reality. They collect and read the personal data gathered on tens of millions of us by the security and surveillance state. They keep the accounts of ExxonMobil, BP and Goldman Sachs. They build or pilot aerial drones. They work in corporate advertising and public relations. They issue the forms. They process the papers. They deny food stamps to some and unemployment benefits or medical coverage to others. They enforce the laws and the regulations. And they do not ask questions.

truth-out.org...

That's not an excuse.

a reply to: AgentShillington

In my 10 years of service, I didn't meet anyone who volunteered knowing they were being used to push the corporations interests. There is also no proof that this is what the military is being used for. Do I believe that's what they are being used for? Of course, but just because a bunch of data and scenarios add value to the idea doesn't make it fact.

I know I didn't start to look at the big picture until I was out of the military. I was to busy trying to spend every extra minute I had with my highly neglected family at the time.

I agree with your take on recruiters to a point. They tell you whatever you want to hear to meet their quota. They also have no boundaries. They're in every highschool, filling the heads of young adults as if the military is some sweet vacation with to many benefits to pass up. They tell you every good reason to join and leave out the bad. For example: Post 9/11 bill, Enlistment bonuses, free medical and dental, free housing and food, patriotism, travel the world, and the list goes on. Recruiters are some of the most hated personnel in the military.

originally posted by: amicktd
a reply to: AgentShillington

In my 10 years of service, I didn't meet anyone who volunteered knowing they were being used to push the corporations interests. There is also no proof that this is what the military is being used for. Do I believe that's what they are being used for? Of course, but just because a bunch of data and scenarios add value to the idea doesn't make it fact.

Respectfully, you didn't meet anyone that admitted to knowing they were being used to push the corporations interests. Why would anyone admit to that? Would you admit to knowing you were a tool of oppression? Would you trust anyone that admitted to that fact?

Dayum right Jesse.

a reply to: scattergun

Hes struggling with relevancy.

The conspiracy community is very fast paced and intellectual. It's hard to keep up with and requires a lot of time.

Does the US military fight for our "freedom"? In my humble opinion, no -- not currently.

If anything, I would say that the US military is being used to undermine the American public's freedom. The more we bomb, the more we occupy and invade -- the more "terrorists" and enemies we make. Our armed forces are used as a blunt instrument to force our hegemony upon people that don't want to have anything to do with us. Our military breeds dissent and hatred among those it comes into contact with.

Having said that, I do know of individual stories of intense humanitarian compassion from our troops. Our troops are, after all, people. Listening to some of the GOOD work they have done does inspire a little bit of hope and warm my heart. Giving a kid a chocolate bar, saving a puppy, or getting a woman out of a home with an abusive husband. All of these are under reported acts of kindness by our men and women in uniform.

The problem isn't with the individual soldier. The problem lies with the entire military-industrial-complex as a whole, and the bigger scope of their operations. Our military isn't being led by the people we see on TV, it is being lead by the arms dealers, weapon manufacturers, big corporate interests. People that are subject to the heavy-handed actions of our military outside of the USA seem keenly aware of this, and they hate us for allowing it.

Our troops (even with wide eyes, hoo-rah, and good intentions) are being used to take away our freedoms; not protect them. Anyone that believes that needs to seriously think long and hard, and take a really good look at the geo-political landscape and history of the last 60 years. Those of us Americans that travel outside of the USA see it. Those of us who know people in other countries see it. It becomes very apparent that the only ones in America who can't see this are those that bury their heads in the sands of nationalism, and drink the ultra-patriotism koolaid our puppet leaders demand we drink.

a reply to: AgentShillington

I think you completely missed where I was going with that post. The recruiters are pawns to the bigger picture. Without recruiters, the US would need a draft.

Many join for the benefits, a job, 3 hots and a cot. There are some darn good careers and job training the military has to offer that a person can not get anywhere else, especially while being paid. I think it is a bit condescending of some who try to belittle those who signed a contract with their life in hopes of doing good.

Some people do the wrong things for the right reasons. However it is obvious to anyone who pays attention to world events that the US is destabilizing the world. Too many Americans are ignorant to this, unless that changes we will continue making enemies around the world.

while i was growing up and encountering homeless people on the city streets, i learned early on how the majority of them were ex combat veterans...

that's what deters me from feeling patriotic during septembers' reign...not that my youth is greatly retained.

a reply to: AgentShillington

I guess that's your opinion. My opinion is you're way off the mark.

originally posted by: amicktd
Recruiters are some of the most hated personnel in the military.

Now that I can agree with. Recruiters are notorious for getting potential recruits to lie about conditions like asthma, allergies, prior surgeries, ect.. to get potential recruits shipped off to boot camp and they can make their quota. Many fail to realize that many who want to join are unable to for a variety of reasons.

Even though it is a hated position I know for senior E-6's in the Navy becoming a Recruiter or RDC at Great Lakes was an easy way to make Chief.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: AgentShillington

I think you completely missed where I was going with that post. The recruiters are pawns to the bigger picture. Without recruiters, the US would need a draft.

Many join for the benefits, a job, 3 hots and a cot. There are some darn good careers and job training the military has to offer that a person can not get anywhere else, especially while being paid. I think it is a bit condescending of some who try to belittle those who signed a contract with their life in hopes of doing good.

Some people do the wrong things for the right reasons. However it is obvious to anyone who pays attention to world events that the US is destabilizing the world. Too many Americans are ignorant to this, unless that changes we will continue making enemies around the world.

No, I think I understood exactly where you were going, and I agree. Recruiters are pawns, willing pawns. However, if you are becoming a soldier for money and benefits then you are a mercenary. That's not my definition. Couple that with indifference toward the target, and it becomes a situation where you would be willing to do more and more ethically challenging things to continue that paycheck.

Some people do the wrong things for the wrong reasons.

I welcome a draft. It would end our military conquest a lot more quickly if we weren't merely using money as a bait to get poor people to sign up for corporate security overseas. Hold a draft. Take a few thousand kids that don't want to go to war and put them on the front lines and see how quickly public opinion turns away from these conquests.

originally posted by: amicktd
a reply to: AgentShillington

I guess that's your opinion. My opinion is you're way off the mark.

It's interesting to me that you didn't answer the questions and instead merely tell me I'm wrong.

I think it's rather telling.

a reply to: AgentShillington

Respectfully, you didn't meet anyone that admitted to knowing they were being used to push the corporations interests. Why would anyone admit to that?

They wouldn't if they knew what's good for them. Now let me ask you something. What makes you think kids are joining just to push corporations interests and not for something else entirely?

Would you admit to knowing you were a tool of oppression?

Of course not, because I never was.

Would you trust anyone that admitted to that fact?

These people are referred to as Dictator's. I don't even vote for our own politicians, so what do you think my answer to that is?

What I meant by your way off the mark is that your blaming the military, but really its the politicians and corporations you should be blaming.