The myth of race: Why are we divided by race when there is no such thing?

Best post ever I've always wondered the same thing, but unfortunately growing up was told that First Nations here in canada are the way they are because that's how their 'race' is, my argument was that there are plenty of intelligent law abiding First Nations out there, who just happened to grow up in a better environment than others, just as I've see enough Caucasian who are not so intelligent or law abiding because they grew up in a rough negative environment.

The First Nations have been treated inferior their whole lives. Generations ago they were abused and taken away from the only families they knew to the residential schools, where they were forced to learn a whole new culture. Before that they had a symbiotic relationship with nature and were able to provide for themselves. They were happy. To me they lost their 'cultural intelligences' through abuse.

It's all about nature vs nurture. Intelligence (besides what is intelligence? There's musical intelligence, street smart intelligence, mathematical intelligence, problem solving intelligence, I could go on forever about the different areas someone could be intelligent in) is not based on race, but the environment and conditions someone is placed in.

You provide someone with inadequate nutrition, they will not have the proper vitamin intake and their brain will not develop as fully as possible. Omega-3 is great for brain development. You beat someone growing up instead of loving them, the neurons in the brain don't get the proper stimulation they need and cells start dying off. Tell someone they're stupid their entire life and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I feel that who you are is based more on their various life, environmental, nutritional, cultural and family experiences rather than the actual tone of their skin.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Sadly the problem here is the idea of race (it's a social construct after all, almost a meme) is ingrained in the general populace. Genetics is a fairly new science, and people still don't understand what it means (ie having a certain gene only (for example) predisposes you to a condition, not a "you have it"). Lets not even start on epigenetics

SO yeah "race" really is "ethnicity" when people talk about it. Ethnicity is real in that you come from an ethnic group. That's not coded by your genetic, it might not even be accurate. But hey humans are not as smart as they wish they were

Oh and for the record I've amongst other things got a background in bioinformatics and genomics. When people hoid up "racial genetics" they are almost always talking about non coding DNA from mitochondria and or Y chromosomes. The operative word is non coding, it does not code for a physical trait, its just an easy mutation (usualy a single nucleac acid different) to distinguish some groups that are not evenly spread over a geographic area.

a reply to: MX61000

Citations?

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: tothetenthpower

So there is one race of humans, just different breeds.

Exactly, just as I said on page 3.

Humans are like dogs in that dogs have differing looks and characteristics based on inbreeding,
humans who rarely traveled more than 20 miles from home for thousands of years, inbreed so deeply that everyone began to have the same "breed" characteristics, that we call races.

But a human is a human, just as a dog is a dog - on the scientific biological level.

If we were different "races" we wouldn't be able to procreate with one another.

It's as simple as that.

The rest is just semantics brought on by neverending erroneous word usage and definitions... aka poor linguistics.

If race doesn't exists then species do not exist.

There does not exist any natural solid line that makes species different. We have arbitrarily drawn lines as to what constitutes a species. Obviously a cat is different than a bear, and there are concrete differences we can point to, but we cannot trace the evolutionary tree and make a solid line of when once species changed into another.

Race is the same way. There is no actual line, no real difference, but it's obvious that there ARE differences. Ignoring those differences and claiming we are all once race is like ignoring the difference between species and saying all life on earth is the same species. Since species don't technically exist, all life is the same species.


In other words, claiming race does not exist is like claiming states don't exist but countries do. States don't actually exist, they exist only as an idea represented by lines drawn on a map. But the concept of a state is real.

I wonder who will be the first to say I'm wrong because they think an actual line exists to differentiate one species from another. It doesn't, we just decide that a certain feature makes a certain animal belong to a certain species.

It's ALL made up, but if you are going to claim race doesn't exist, you have to also claim species don't exist because the way both are judged is the same (arbitrarily)

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Hi Big Furry longtime ..

Not only that but folks who do believe in a discreet concept called race can't even agree on how many races exist or give an accurate description of what it truly is,culture is more a factor than race and culture can be learnt or loss.

So because people can't agree how many races exist, race doesn't exist?

You do realize that science doesn't often agree on the number of species either? Some may be similar but with enough differences that some want to classify them as separate species, while others want to just explain it as variation within the same species. Does that mean species don't exist?

Can anyone who thinks race doesn't exist either:

Agree species don't exist

or

Explain how nature has made hard and fast rules about what defines a species and what those rules are? (rules NOT arbitrarily made by man)

originally posted by: James1982

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Hi Big Furry longtime ..

Not only that but folks who do believe in a discreet concept called race can't even agree on how many races exist or give an accurate description of what it truly is,culture is more a factor than race and culture can be learnt or loss.

So because people can't agree how many races exist, race doesn't exist?

You do realize that science doesn't often agree on the number of species either? Some may be similar but with enough differences that some want to classify them as separate species, while others want to just explain it as variation within the same species. Does that mean species don't exist?

Can anyone who thinks race doesn't exist either:

Agree species don't exist

or

Explain how nature has made hard and fast rules about what defines a species and what those rules are? (rules NOT arbitrarily made by man)

Yes that's what I am saying we can track humans very well unless we find bigfoot or some other type of humans hiding out in the jungle somewhere,as to how many plant fish or bugs species that are out there that's different we simply haven't scoured the entire planet to know what we have but in humans we do know.

a reply to: James1982

Well see here is the real problem, the percentage difference between people of these "races" is tiny. There is usually a larger degree of difference within these "races" than between them. So if you want to base the idea of "race" off of bits of a percentage, more power to you.

However its not really a useful thing to contemplate.

As already has been mentioned the "race specific" diseases out there are quite often due to a somewhat inbreed population, Tay-Sachs is a great example of that.

Scientifically we describe oranisms by binomial nomenclature of Genus and species viz Homo sapiens then there would be subspecies, which used to be where "race" would be inserted though the only one with real credence is Homo sapiens idaltu which has been extinct a rather long time

The ideas of "race" were all based on arbitrary physical characteristics and not genetic (we had no idea). They just don't hold up now, and they've been messed with the an extent they hold zero value.

Whats a Caucasian (for example) genetically what defines one?
Then we have to ask were Neanderthals and Denisovians a subspecies of Homo Sapiens? Were they a distinct species? We certainly breed with them. Indeed the sub Saharan population is perhaps the only group that did not.

The more we learn the more obvious it comes to anyone who can actually think, that the idea of “race” has little meaning now that we are the only members of our Genus stomping around the planet. We evolved out of Africa (sorry we did, I can show you plenty of papers on this). We adapted, and we interbreed with other hominids.

It's a bit more complicated than that; race exists, only not in the scientifically accurate sense. As a result of evolution, or rather adaption, people who migrated to different regions of the world with different climate and food sources ended up appearing different from people who migrated elsewhere. This is effectively what "race" has become; the physical differences between different "races" of people, however, are far too minor to usher in different "breeds" of people.

The existence of race, as it is scientifically defined, is a myth, or rather a victim of massive misunderstanding: there is only one current genus of human beings: Homo sapiens sapiens.

It's the Neanderthal/Denisovan complexities.

"no such thing as Race"


Who you gonna believe?? Your Loving Media Masters, or your lyin' eyes?

originally posted by: Tusks
"no such thing as Race"


Who you gonna believe?? Your Loving Media Masters, or your lyin' eyes?

Neither but I will give science my ear though.

The same people that say race doesn't exist are usually the same ones that keep racism at the forefront of discussion. Those type of people usually ARE all the same, progressive nutjobs and hardcore socialist. They won't be happy till the world is all one ambiguous mashup of one race, sex, culture, and political ideology. Diversity huh?

You know the types. "We're all 100% the same, but don't say anything that might offend me because I'm special and unique"!

originally posted by: Arpad
The same people that say race doesn't exist are usually the same ones that keep racism at the forefront of discussion. Those type of people usually ARE all the same, progressive nutjobs and hardcore socialist. They won't be happy till the world is all one ambiguous mashup of one race, sex, culture, and political ideology. Diversity huh?

You know the types. "We're all 100% the same, but don't say anything that might offend me because I'm special and unique"!

That's because while "Race" does not exist racism does and it is reliant on the belief of race which in turn lends it self to value judgments to the point where it can extend into laws or traditions bout how to treat "races" .

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: Arpad
The same people that say race doesn't exist are usually the same ones that keep racism at the forefront of discussion. Those type of people usually ARE all the same, progressive nutjobs and hardcore socialist. They won't be happy till the world is all one ambiguous mashup of one race, sex, culture, and political ideology. Diversity huh?

You know the types. "We're all 100% the same, but don't say anything that might offend me because I'm special and unique"!

That's because while "Race" does not exist racism does and it is reliant on the belief of race which in turn lends it self to value judgments to the point where it can extend into laws or traditions bout how to treat "races" .

Mistakes were made, but a lot of them were not by who we're brainwashed to believe. It is the underlying problem to all race discussions.

The implanted thought pattern then becomes, race is a neverending problem, get rid of race and thus the problem. It's a worldwide self- destruct bomb wrapped in a pretty, utopian, bow.

originally posted by: Arpad

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: Arpad
The same people that say race doesn't exist are usually the same ones that keep racism at the forefront of discussion. Those type of people usually ARE all the same, progressive nutjobs and hardcore socialist. They won't be happy till the world is all one ambiguous mashup of one race, sex, culture, and political ideology. Diversity huh?

You know the types. "We're all 100% the same, but don't say anything that might offend me because I'm special and unique"!

That's because while "Race" does not exist racism does and it is reliant on the belief of race which in turn lends it self to value judgments to the point where it can extend into laws or traditions bout how to treat "races" .

Mistakes were made, but a lot of them were not by who we're brainwashed to believe. It is the underlying problem to all race discussions.

The implanted thought pattern then becomes, race is a neverending problem, get rid of race and thus the problem. It's a worldwide self- destruct bomb wrapped in a pretty, utopian, bow.

I can agree with that starting with the census,job application,college registration ,Birth certificate ,passport etc.

Its funny how the average person confuse different words in biology. Same goes with the word "race". For example, the species Cat, you have got the race of tiger and normal cat. THIS is the meaning of race. You CANT take something like this on the Homo sapiens (we modern humans), the skin colors and bone differencies are a VARIATION in ONE RACE, not different races. When you use the word race on humans, you have to descripe homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis(neanderthal man). THESE are two races in the species human. We know only little about our ancient history, thats why we not fully understand us. (Best example the large amount of confused people above me) Sorry for my imperfect english, greetings from germany.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

SnF mate

I've been saying this for a while now.

There is no human "race"

We won. We have the ability to give legs and arms to those born without them or those who lost their limbs. We have the ability to take the most injured, ravaged person and return them to full health. We have the ability to feed everyone in the world and ensure that everyone is literate. Not saying that we should feed everyone, what with crowding issues and survival of the fittest and whatnot.

But we do not have the capability to do all that because of one thing. Money and those who control the money.
There is no money to be made in helping people. Only in hurting or controlling people. Why is it that we have preventable illnesses killing millions every year, but we haven't had a case of polio in 50 years in most countries? Or the mumps or small pox or the spanish flu?

Because for once in our miserable existence, we banded together and said screw you to the established order, we'll do this on our own.

I see the human race banding together again in order to defeat the established order of 10 percent of individuals holding 90 percent of the wealth. Mark my words, the offspring of the baby boomers will be the ones to break the order, just like the baby boomers did back in their day.

We're all a version of one another somehow but, how we've all managed to seperate ourselves from one another whether by dogma, science, whatever the case maybe, we are either one people or different species vying and competing to survive, adapting along the way to best suit or needs.

Of course that's just opinion.