BBC Says Russia has invaded the Ukraine (10th time)

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: Xcathdra

Nope. If you feel you are working in defense of the truth, then I have no suggestions to make, sir.

This truth ?

Warning Very Graphic

originally posted by: VirusGuard
They investigate 9/11 too but that does not mean that the world agrees with the results does it now !

Of course not and we can extend that phrase to include Russia and Crimea however people can challenge the government position on 9/11. The same cannot be said of those wanting to question the election results or Putins policies.

originally posted by: VirusGuard
if so many people in the Crimea voted against Russia and the vote was swung then we would have blood on the streets but we don't and people in the East of the Ukraine would not sacrifice there lives if they wanted to be a part of Kiev

The election was never recognized. Secondly they shipped in Russian citizens to vote. Third the Russian Presidents council posted the actual results of the vote instead of the outcome that was announced. It was quickly removed but the number they reported are no where near to the "everyone in crimea wants to join Russia" level.

What about the people who live in those areas who dont want to be a part of Russia? what would you tell them?

originally posted by: VirusGuard
Machines can be fixed but its not quite so easy with a paper vote even if a bit of fixing still goes on

Putins election in 2012 was more than just a little fixing.
We saw people "voting" in Crimea dropping multiple ballots into the ballot box.
We saw the argument some ballots were pre filled.

a reply to: VirusGuard

is it calling everyone a liar in a personal attack in every other post and if so I need you to teach me but if not then please stop it and take the title of the post up with the mods

I have been trying to teach you, yet you do not seem to want to listen. All you need to do is say "I am not deliberately misquoting the BBC, I was just ignorant of journalistic practice. Sorry." And then I would say: "I'm sorry I accused you of lying when you were simply ignorant."

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

"Blood and tears of Ukraine" - a new documentary, created a team Kassad TV on genocide-speaking population of Donbass, crimes Kiev authorities against their own people. The film is based on real events and the testimony of direct participants - civilians, which is fighting the Ukrainian army. The filmmakers are shown in chronological order the events preceding the rise to power after the coup d'etat of the puppet government of Ukraine and the crimes committed Ukrainian security forces during a large-scale punitive operations in the southeast of the country, whose inhabitants refused to recognize the legitimacy of the new Kiev authorities. In the course of the punitive operation, by order of the Kiev authorities against the civilian population of the region used heavy artillery and aircraft, killing civilians, including women and children. The main goal pursued by the Ukrainian government today - to destroy the inhabitants of Donbass, applying against the Southeast scorched earth tactics.
This can not be justified, to forgive and forget ...

This runs both ways.

There are documented incidents of rebels killing civilians for minor infractions. They have shelled areas where government forces are, placing civilians in danger as well, etc etc etc.

a reply to: Xcathdra

You haven`t even seen the vid (posting just 4 min later when the vid is 22 min long), too hard to stomach ?

It points out the Ukrainian government should be prosecuted by Ukrainian law, not even speaking about international law.

I can`t believe ATS is allowing covering up of war crimes (UN : crimes against humanity) of certain members and thinking it`s "freedom of speech."

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I didnt need to watch it since war crimes have been committed. The problem is both sides have committed them.

Are you intentionally leaving pro russian rebels out or is it pro russian rebels are a double standard?

U.N. says pro-Russia rebels in Ukraine murder, kidnap and torture

(Reuters) - Pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine are guilty of a wide array of human rights abuses, including murder, abductions and torture, and are receiving a "steady supply" of sophisticated weapons and ammunition, according to a U.N. report obtained by Reuters.

The report by the 34-member U.N. monitoring mission, prepared by the U.N. human rights office in Geneva, also cited reports of human rights violations by Ukraine's military forces and special battalions run by the country's Interior Ministry.

The report said the death toll has risen to at least 2,200 since the fighting began in mid-April, with an average of at least 36 people killed daily. That is up from at least 2,086 on Aug. 10 and 1,129 on July 26.

"Armed groups continue to commit killings, abductions, physical and psychological torture, ill treatment, executions, murder and other serious human rights abuses," the report said, adding that violations were "disproportionately targeting civilians."

Click link for rest of article...

a reply to: Xcathdra

however people can challenge the government position on 9/11.

Yes sure you can like the fire fighters who have been told to shut up or loose your pension or relatives that were not even allowed to present evidence to the enquiry and RFO that don't get answered.

Keep pushing and the police start pulling you up for a flat tyre.

Again you hide behind the law but fail to concede that the SS broke no laws in Germany during WWII and the media under gurbals control ensure that the German public loved him at the time even when the SS was killing people.

Would you say that all Germans were stupid or that anyone can succumb to propaganda put out by the state if it is done right and that laws are not so black and white as you would like to think.

Much of what's happening in the world today would make Hitler look like a choirboy

a reply to: DJW001
I am not deliberately misquoting the BBC, I was just ignorant of journalistic practice. Sorry.

originally posted by: VirusGuard
a reply to: DJW001
I am not deliberately misquoting the BBC, I was just ignorant of journalistic practice. Sorry.

In that case, I apologize for accusing you of lying. An understanding of journalistic practice is a valuable tool; it allows you to discriminate between responsible reporting and blatant propaganda. There are reliable journalistic sources on both sides of the Ukrainian conflict, and blatant propagandists.

a reply to: Xcathdra

So you think it`s legit do to so because US tool the UN does it ?

It only proofs what a deluded view people have about freedom of speech to think anyone can use this tactics to help cover up war crimes and think it`s just freedom of speech.

It also proofs how big the hypocrisy is when Holocaust denying by ordinary people is forbidden by law, but Western Media covering up crimes against humanity is being washed away with excuses about things coming from the other party.

How do you sleep at night ?

Do you have no consciousness which bugs you about what you do ?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: Xcathdra
Nope. If you feel you are working in defense of the truth, then I have no suggestions to make, sir.

This truth ?
Warning Very Graphic

Question :

I Don't care what anyone says but the police taking a beating at the start were under orders to take it and that included being hit with chains, something sprayed in their faces with the petrol bombs being the least of their trouble.

Did they know guns were being pointed at them and they were under orders not to move ? Why did the just take it like that ?

Xcathdra you should watch it and know that no laws were broken since no one was ever arrested.

Do you think that dead woman bent over backwards on the desk was pregnant, she looked about seven months gone to me.


Good job we have international criminal courts to deal with this because they are clambering over themselves to do nothing so yes when I say its worse today than when Hitler was calling the shoots then maybe you will start to see what I mean

a reply to: VirusGuard

The second part goes about the shelling of children, woman and elderly, the socially vulnerable people who weren`t able to leave who were left in Donetsk and Lughansk. Ukraine army was not able to take those both cities so they decided to just bombard trapped social vulnerable citizens.

And they are still doing it, this has nothing to do with war. They only try to ethnic cleanse the East part of the Ukraine so in future the elections go the right way. The locations which are being targeted have no military objective.

What part of me stating war crimes were committed by both sides do you people just not understand?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
What part of me stating war crimes were committed by both sides do you people just not understand?

That part were you make the excuse for what Kiev/US/EU is doing and trying to marginalize them by using the same tactic seen by Western Media all along, namely trying to justify the war crimes by pointing towards the wrong party.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien
if this is being viewed in Russia then I don't think Putin will have any other option but to invade but I ask you again why did the police take it, what was going on.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So your position is Pro Russian rebels did not commit war crimes?

Secondly I never did what you just accused me of. I pointed out that its not just Ukraine but rebels as well. This would serve as a prime example of how you guys stumble into the hypocrisy area. Also you really need to stop claiming a person said something when they didnt.

Secondly I dont think you should be lecturing people about making excuses for one country while holding another country to a different standard. Even more so since you seem to have issues with what Ukraine is doing while completely ignoring what Assad in syria is doing.

originally posted by: VirusGuard
a reply to: BornAgainAlien
if this is being viewed in Russia then I don't think Putin will have any other option but to invade but I ask you again why did the police take it, what was going on.

In other words, this "documentary" may have been produced for the specific purpose of justifying a full blown military invasion to the Russian people.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So your position is Pro Russian rebels did not commit war crimes?

Secondly I dont think you should be lecturing people about making excuses for one country while holding another country to a different standard. Even more so since you seem to have issues with what Ukraine is doing while completely ignoring what Assad in syria is doing.

The war in Syria was also instigated by the US and it would already have ended if US wouldn`t had interfered.

And just look what a mess Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan have become. The same thing will probably happen with Syria.

So who do you think I hold responsible for what happens and has happened over there ?

I hold the ones responsible who should be held responsible, and you ?

originally posted by: VirusGuard
a reply to: BornAgainAlien
if this is being viewed in Russia then I don't think Putin will have any other option but to invade but I ask you again why did the police take it, what was going on.

The police did not take it, it just stood idle by.

It were NAZI groups who did the massacre in Odessa and Kiev doesn`t prosecute them because the Kiev government has connections with them, and probably has ordered them to do it.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

The war in Syria was also instigated by the US and it would already have ended if US wouldn`t had interfered.

How did the US instigate a popular uprising in Syria? How did it interfere?

And just look what a mess Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan have become. The same thing will probably happen with Syria.

Iraq and Afghanistan are good examples of what happens when the United States interferes. They look nothing like Syria and Lebanon.

So who do you think I hold responsible for what happens and has happened over there ?

All the wrong people.

I hold the ones responsible who should be held responsible, and you ?

No, you hold the United States responsible when it is Russia who is supporting a dictatorial regime in Syria and fomenting civil war in Ukraine. As for Libya, Qaddaffi had become an American ally. The US didn't want him deposed, that's why they did not support the rebels until his overthrow looked inevitable, then they tried to get in good with what they thought would be the new regime.