Why?

I'm not an expert on philosophy by any means, so apologies for that, but every source I have ever read, conventional and otherwise, seems to say that life is basically an obstacle course we all go through in order to learn a lesson and grow as a soul. The Abrahamic religions (mostly) give you one chance and you pass or fail. Other religions have an endless cycle of challenges. My question is, to what end? Growth is a very nice thing, except why does that concept exist at all? This is how it is -- I get that. But why is it this way? Any ideas?

I suppose the 'obvious' answer (if there is such a thing, which is entirely debatable in itself - hence the ' ' around the word obvious) is that we're all chasing our own personal versions of heaven, paradise or nirvana, whatever we choose to call it.

I can only speak for myself here, but life is certainly a challenge, so that part fits the theory/belief. Throw in a good old batch of deja vu every so often and it all becomes ever so slightly plausible, but I suppose that's faith for you.

I just hope the end game, whatever it is, is especially worth it for those people who lead truly exceptional lives helping those around them at every opportunity along the way. They deserve their heaven above most.

a reply to: Evergreen

It stems from hope. Because if not that then the alternative is depressing. The hope that this life is a step to something better gives people the will to carry on.

Just be open minded, maybe it is a stepping stone, maybe it isn't - let's enjoy the now and see what happens when we die.

a reply to: Evergreen

I think Confucius said it well. "I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand."

Poe actually said something that is hard to beat as well.

P. But to what good end is pain thus rendered possible ?

V. All things are either good or bad by comparison. A sufficient analysis will show that pleasure, in all cases, is but the contrast of pain. Positive pleasure is a mere idea. To be happy at any one point we must have suffered at the same. Never to suffer would have been never to have been blessed. But it has been shown that, in the inorganic life, pain cannot be thus the necessity for the organic. The pain of the primitive life of Earth, is the sole basis of the bliss of the ultimate life in Heaven.

My own version says it this way. Taking reward leads to suffering. Suffering on purpose leads to reward. Either way, you will suffer. Smoke and get sick. Work out in a gym and gain health. Taking marks the thief and giving is the will of God. The will to give and the will to receive creates surplus. The will to take creates debt. Pathos cannot be learned by hearing or seeing. It must be learned by doing.

a reply to: Evergreen

I don't believe life is meaningless...

...but it makes a lot more sense if it is.

No obstacle courses, no reward systems, no penalties...just the random chances and mutations of mindless nature.

originally posted by: Evergreen
I'm not an expert on philosophy by any means, so apologies for that, but every source I have ever read, conventional and otherwise, seems to say that life is basically an obstacle course we all go through in order to learn a lesson and grow as a soul. The Abrahamic religions (mostly) give you one chance and you pass or fail. Other religions have an endless cycle of challenges. My question is, to what end? Growth is a very nice thing, except why does that concept exist at all? This is how it is -- I get that. But why is it this way? Any ideas?

Because.


Just enjoy the ride, you'll find out sooner or later (preferably later).

a reply to: Evergreen

When you are bored you might play a video game where you start with nothing and rank up as you progress through the levels. One day you will have passed all the levels and completed the whole game. Then in order to beat your boredom you decide to start over the game and play through all the levels again.

You gotta have something to keep your mind occupied when you are a single consciousness in a black void.

a reply to: Kandinsky

I like to think of it this way: Life can't not exist. What would there be otherwise? You can't have nothing. Whatever form it takes, life must exist.

Gruesome as the thought may be, if everything just stops when we die we won't have the opportunity to bemoan it.

As a previous poster said though, hope really is the basis of human existence.

Whether its the hope we'll find our soulmate and grow old gracefully or the hope our favourite sports team will win this week, it's one of the driving forces behind our lives.

It would just be a bit disappointing if there wasn't more to it all, so I hope there are worlds beyond our own.

When I look at my children, I know that I exist for a reason solely because without me, they wouldn't be here, and they bring so much to the world that if my only accomplishment is being the father of my 2 sons, then I am happy knowing that.

originally posted by: Evergreen
Any ideas?

human existence is so preposterous that most feel the need to expand it's parameters to include a spiritually profound, or 'godly' end as a justification for the means, ie the slow suicide that is life itself.

a reply to: Evergreen

Few in the Abrahamic faiths believe salvation or conversion is the end of the line, but the beginning of a lifestyle. Other than the Calvinists, many Christians accept that you can lose your salvation thereafter by stepping away from grace, and Muslims and Jews have all sorts of things you can do to break with their faiths, so it isn't just a singular choice. According to the scriptures I have read, the more spiritual works you do, the more treasures you will have in heaven. The choice then is between building up riches in this world and building up riches in the next. I still don't know if I like that system very much, but it seems to be their spiritual understanding.

a reply to: yeahright

A lot of Atheists meet in that building too, although they´d probably deny it.

I think of evolution when I think of creation and the state of being. You experience and you learn and evolve what you are. And maybe even push your environment to evolve also and then you leave one environment for another.

And feeling loved and loving something is nice. The body on the love vibe is very nice. I am not sure if I am impressed with the cognitive ability of myself and others since I do not think of us (in human form) as very intelligent and wise. But I am impressed by the human bodies ability to feel and sense things.

Some religions teach that our souls dream of this existence called life to realize the futility of ego. And once our spirit vibrates to the same tune as the one then all is good. But perhaps we are like ants speculating on rocket science, our brains just not powerful enough to realize the ultimate truth.

a reply to: Evergreen

Some people are of the opinion that the 'universe' either
undergoes all possible permutations of possible combinations
probably forever and ever.. and any lifeforms are caught up
in that vast expanse.

Others are perhaps a bit more animistic and say that the 'universe'
is at least minimally sentient and yearns to 'scratch all
itches', and again 'we' all get caught up in this endlessly.

Such an opinion has nothing to do with salvationist or
reincarnation themes at all. We live. We die. We live.

We either make the most of our lives, or we don't.

Rinse repeat.

The 'universe' is in fact, not about us at all.. or about
any 'beings' at all.. it simply is what it is, and 'beings'
are just a part of the tapestry.

No good. No evil. No melodrama. Just equal amounts
of joy and suffering in all possible combinations
forever and ever.

I'm just sharing this perspective to show that there
are possibly many more options than poor Heratio
might realize in terms of philosophy.

Kev

Time can be seen like a river, at one stage, hypothetically, there was one stream, and when different avenues were found, the river split into different streams.

So, you are a stream, and you wish to grow, you have to find new avenues to travel, you must find a way to tap your potential and new pathways for your stream to enter, otherwise, if you hit a dead end, you will dry up and cease to flow.

These "streams" are time itself, and when we continue to grow, we extend our time so we can continue to exist.

If one wants to "give up" then they can accept their fate or annihilate themselves, the right or the left path for returning to the source.

There are many beings that have never given up, some of them are almost incomprehensible.

Would you not want to be awesome yourself?

originally posted by: Evergreen
I'm not an expert on philosophy by any means, so apologies for that, but every source I have ever read, conventional and otherwise, seems to say that life is basically an obstacle course we all go through in order to learn a lesson and grow as a soul. The Abrahamic religions (mostly) give you one chance and you pass or fail. Other religions have an endless cycle of challenges. My question is, to what end? Growth is a very nice thing, except why does that concept exist at all? This is how it is -- I get that. But why is it this way? Any ideas?

Look at it this way. Imagine your white blood cells asking "Why, to what end?"

Now if only the blood cell could step back and see the endless river of very necessary blood cells acting as one.

To what end you say? I say thanks for the life. As above, so below.