To all the atheists out there

The simple fact is that we do not know, no one knows at least on our planet. No point arguing about somthing that will end up unanswered.

BOTTOM LINE:

Humans have finite minds.

It has been the struggle of man to understand concepts that are impossible for our minds as far back as recorded history goes. Regardless weather there is or is not a God, we are not allowed to understand how it all works, just that it works. Science cannot explain everything, nor can religion. I am not so closed-minded to disregard the possiblity that there is true solid sciences out there in the cosmos that my 5 senses cannot grasp nor my logic comprehend.

Like said above, this whole conversation is pointless. Just accept yourself as a finite mind in an infinite universe.

We are allowed to figured out how it works, we are woorking on it, but we haven't figured it out yet. We know of atoms: nucleus, protons, neutrons and electrons. We "just" need to figure out how to control their movements a bit better than we do right now. A LOT of energy is needed to make ions. We don't have stable energysources to do this. -yet. When we do. When. Then we can create all kinds of "things". The problem is these tiny objects are hard to control. Right now, we are only good at splitting them... (ref: nuclear powerplants and atomic bombs.)

Quite right Ulvetann,and its a shame what i wrote earlier upset you enough yo lash out,mentioning God has that effect on people,i`m not a preachy type person so i hope i don't come off that way and I'm not trying to convert anyone i cant explain alot of unknown things in the universe but because i cant doesn't disprove my God.
Like Darwin's theory?seems to me pretty good evidence that we evolved but there`s still the vital missing link,if they found it would that prove God doesn't exit?not to me,it makes sense to me,it would explain Genesis in away that man evolved from primate but something had to give him consciousness the serpent Satan tempted eve with the forbidden fruit,and said no you wont die you will become like god knowing right from wrong,can you imagine an ape in the jungle now days discovered the making there own clothes when does an animal realize he`s naked????and i can just as easily just except the creation of Adam and eve,it doesn't effect my belief at all.
I believe us as men and women are all since that time trying to be like God we mess around with genetics men becoming women its also said that this will be the last generation to die or the first generation to live forever sounds very much like we want to be like God, we are pondering colonizing mars cool ,what is worrying is that we don't have the maturity to mess with these things, look at the atom bomb not to mention the condition of the earth etc etc
We as the human race is looking down the gun barrel of www111,and the book of revelation`s predictions are unfolding,although i hardly ever read the bible now,there is alot more to the bible its not a story book,their are alot better qualified people on ATS to talk about the bible than myself,i did`nt write this to upset anyone,your quite welcome to your beliefs and then again so am i

[edit on 10-12-2004 by gps777]

[edit on 10-12-2004 by gps777]

Hey atheists if there is no God then how do you explain everything. If there is no God then how was the universe created? Dont say the big bang because something had to creat the atoms needed for the big bang to happen. The evidence of God is everywhere. For without God there would be nothing. Bottum line is there has to be some sort of all-powerful force. We call that force God.

What created God?

The answer to THAT question can also be the answer to the question you posed to the Atheists.

There is a difference between believing in an all powerful force behind things, and God.

The belief in God's existence is to believe that there is some omniscient sentient being behind all things. This being (despite any of his believed incarnations, Jesus, Buddha, Allah, whatever) is depicted as having "human" failings to make him/her even more identifiable for other humans. For example, the idea of a god's "wrath", etc.

Personally, I find the idea rather laughable. Perhaps there is some kind of sentient order to the universe and it's cycles, but if there is, I think it much more likely that it's more of a residual intelligence made up of the "souls" (for lack of a better word) of sentient beings throughout the universe....than any one, know it all deity....

Originally posted by Croat56
Hey atheists if there is no God then how do you explain everything. If there is no God then how was the universe created?

Nice circular argument. In terms of "how was the universe created", well, we're still working on that one. We'll let you know when we figure it out, if we ever do. Keep in mind that we have not yet claimed to know with 100% accuracy how the universe came to being. We only have theories.

Originally posted by Croat56
Dont say the big bang because something had to creat the atoms needed for the big bang to happen.

At least examine the topic you're arguing against before you voice your opinion. The big bang, if it did indeed occur, happened before matter existed. This means it happened before atoms. According to the theory, subatomic particles coalesced out of ambient energy left behind by the big bang, which then grouped to form atoms. Your statement is very much like saying that a woman cannot exist unless her children are around to create her.

Originally posted by Croat56
The evidence of God is everywhere.

The evidence of evolution is everywhere as well, however it is far, far more concrete and conclusive. Show me your evidence, and I could swamp it ten to one with mine.

Originally posted by Croat56
For without God there would be nothing. Bottum line is there has to be some sort of all-powerful force. We call that force God.

Why does there have to be some all-powerful force? Have you explored every option as to why this is so? What makes your convictions so solid, what proven evidence do you have that will topple the discussion in your favor? Elaboration, sources, research, you present none of these. You do present an opinion, which you are completely entitled to, but you lack the proof to back that opinion up. Threads are for discussion or debate, not for argument-baiting. If you'd like to start a battle, you'll need more than threats of weaponry.

This post may make me seem like a confrontational person, which I am not. I just grow tired of creationist debate that always ends with them hiding behind a single book for justification. If this is what this will boil down to, that "the bible says so, so it's true", then it's probably best that the discussion isn't started.

[edit on 10/12/2004 by Thousand]

Christians believe God always was, is and ever will be, and He is creator of all things.

Recently famous hardcore athiest Anthony Flew concluded that there is a God, based on scientific evidence.

abcnews.go.com...

[edit on 12/10/04 by aWoman]

Maybe I'm too laid back, but I just can't for the life of me understand people who can't accept not knowing something. Knowing some stuff and not knowing other stuff is a normal human condition. The more we find out, the more questions arise...and so what? I feel no need to invent a creator to answer unknowns.

Originally posted by aWoman
Recently famous hardcore athiest Anthony Flew concluded that there is a God, based on scientific evidence.

abcnews.go.com...

[edit on 12/10/04 by aWoman]

I don't like his reasoning, though he is more than welcome to it. The argument that life is so complex that it had to have been designed is an easy one to fall in to. The way I see it is that if we are just a product of odds, then it is only natural for us to think we may have been created. What most people neglect to realize is that no matter how astronomical the odds of something happening are, there is still a chance that the event could take place. Given the unimaginable size of the universe, I see it as only a matter of time before life would spring up somewhere in it. Someone who wins the lottery probably thinks "Wow, I'm so lucky. I can't believe I won X amount". In truth, they aren't "lucky", although it genuinely seems to them that they are. It just so happened that their number came up on that day on their ticket. It could've happened to any one of a vast number of people.

By that same token, the prevailance of logical, "a+b=c" laws in the universe tends to lead many to believe that there must be some sort of intelligent design behind everything. What they fail to realize is that the universe does not function through zillions of calculations. It just functions, and those laws and equations are human ways of describing what takes place.

Also, just because a high profile atheist changed his mind does not mean that our entire standpoint is rendered invalid. The use of the term "god" to describe what he believes created life should also not be confused with him suddenly proving that the Christian god, or any god from any religion for that matter, exists.

[edit on 10/12/2004 by Thousand]

Originally posted by aWoman
Christians believe God always was, is and ever will be, and He is creator of all things.

Recently famous hardcore athiest Anthony Flew concluded that there is a God, based on scientific evidence.

abcnews.go.com...

[edit on 12/10/04 by aWoman]

..sounds fairly agnostic still.
Whilst I haven't figure out the complexities within the laws of biological science [been busy] ..I haven't come to the conclusion that it is 'god' as he has. It implies a being with conciousness which has to come from somewhere.. where as the universe can exist without benefit of a creator. Beings are [self] programed to evolve.. and mortality is a must for evolution of a species. The concept of god is contrary to the rules of evolution and life. If someone uses science to say the universe had to come from someone.. then that someone has to come from someone else or it's a contradictory theory. People can't imagine a child not having a 'father' but reject the idea of grandpa? It's like thinking someone causes a supernova rather than it doing it by itself. Doesn't make sense.. neither may this post but hopefully someone will know what I mean and put it into big words so it sounds impressive and even more confusing.

Also.. why did they need to specify he's famous? To lend his opinion authority? Was he famous before he got called famous?
I had to get told.. I'm always the last to know..

[edit on 10-12-2004 by riley]

Originally posted by Croat56
Hey atheists if there is no God then how do you explain everything. If there is no God then how was the universe created? Dont say the big bang because something had to creat the atoms needed for the big bang to happen. The evidence of God is everywhere. For without God there would be nothing. Bottum line is there has to be some sort of all-powerful force. We call that force God.

Hey god people. If there is a god how do you explain two completely different testaments of his will? How do you explain god allowing people use his words to opress and kill people? How do you explain all of the scientific evidence to the contrary of god? How do you explain god allowing his word being interpreted incorrectly? Why would god allow people to quarrel over his existance creating holy wars? Bottom line, is that you should let people worship what they like and leave them the hell alone...

Just for clarification, there is no actual evidence contrary to the existence of God, there is just no evidence to prove the existence of God

Originally posted by babloyi
Just for clarification, there is no actual evidence contrary to the existence of God, there is just no evidence to prove the existence of God

However things 'god' has meant to be directly responsible for have been proved wrong like the creation of the earth.. [I'd say the universe but don't want to get into the big bang stuff as we all know it won't go anywhere] and there is a VAST amount of evidence that evolution created us and not 'god' directly by making human sandcastles.
Always.. when the human race has been ignorant about something it's usually answered with "God dunnit".. we're still doing that and probably always will.. an evolutionary carrot which we'll chase to the ends of the universe until every single mystery that has ever plagued the minds of mankind has been solved. God has a purpose after all.

[edit on 10-12-2004 by riley]

Originally posted by Croat56
Hey atheists if there is no God then how do you explain everything.

How precisely do deists explain anything? Some of them say the world was created by brahma, others that existence is the result of Love acting upong the primal spawns of chaos; night and darkness. Others that some guy neamed jesus did it, others that the whole world is supported by a big turtle. Seems the theists can't come to any sort of conclusion either.

If there is no God then how was the universe created? Dont say the big bang because something had to creat the atoms needed for the big bang to happen.

I really don't understand this, if the big bang had to start frm something, hwy not god? Because god is defined as 'eternal'? Ok, the big bang is defined as not needing a source. THere, absolutely equally logical.

The evidence of God is everywhere. For without God there would be nothing.

Demonstrate this.

Bottum line is there has to be some sort of all-powerful force.

Demonstrate that this is so, rather than stating it.

Listen my point is that some being had to creat everything and that thing is God
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Its logically contradictory. If everything has to come from something then god had to have come from something also. If god can come from nothing then so can the big bang. Besides, stuff does come from nothing. In the quantum vaccum, particles literally pop in and out of existence randomly. They come from nothing, they are something, then they become nothing again.

One cannot have evidence for or against a metaphyiscal existence. Nothing is evidence for god, not the strucutre of the universe or even the existence of the universe itself. There is nothing that requires any god or gods or combinations of gods. One can only have -faith- that there is one god or another.

awoman
Recently famous hardcore athiest Anthony Flew concluded that there is a God, based on scientific evidence.

Uhm, no he didn't. This is an untruth. he didn't conduct some experiment to test for the existence of god or anything like that. He's basically said 'gosh, everything is so complex, it must be made by god'. Thats not a scientific arguement or scientific evidence or anything like it. He's effectivelty thrown his hands up and said 'well, I can't figure this crap out, must be a god or something'.

Seems like another thread to racket up points, why does anyone bother to reply to these anymore? We all know exactly what happends, mud slingers ready thier slingshots and take aim at each other. God is FAITH based, Athiesm is also a faith based belief. Since both sides are placing faith in a different campus we might as well learn to accept both ways of living. Not question and ridicule.

Originally posted by Linux
God is FAITH based, Athiesm is also a faith based belief.

Not so sure about that. Atheism is the rejection of faith. Atheists don't have 'faith' that god doesn't exist, any more than say christians have 'faith' that shiva doesn't destroy the world in an etnernal cycle. Its a lack of faith.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Linux
God is FAITH based, Athiesm is also a faith based belief.

Not so sure about that. Atheism is the rejection of faith. Atheists don't have 'faith' that god doesn't exist, any more than say christians have 'faith' that shiva doesn't destroy the world in an etnernal cycle. Its a lack of faith.

Technically your still placing faith in a system of belief. Even though you don't have faith in gods non-existence your still putting faith into some sort of event that led us up to this point, big bang, god, evolution doesn't matter what.

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter

Originally posted by Croat56
Hey atheists if there is no God then how do you explain everything. If there is no God then how was the universe created? Dont say the big bang because something had to creat the atoms needed for the big bang to happen. The evidence of God is everywhere. For without God there would be nothing. Bottum line is there has to be some sort of all-powerful force. We call that force God.

Hey god people. If there is a god how do you explain two completely different testaments of his will? How do you explain god allowing people use his words to opress and kill people? How do you explain all of the scientific evidence to the contrary of god? How do you explain god allowing his word being interpreted incorrectly? Why would god allow people to quarrel over his existance creating holy wars? Bottom line, is that you should let people worship what they like and leave them the hell alone...

God doesnt want people to kill in his name. People have free will. What evidence do u have that Good doesnt exhist?

Originally posted by Linux
Technically your still placing faith in a system of belief. Even though you don't have faith in gods non-existence your still putting faith into some sort of event that led us up to this point

Why would one have to be putting faith into tho? I'm not so sure that it does. I don't need to have faith that, say, behind the screen I am typing on there isn't a very fast troll with a nuch of pens, creating and changing the image. I don't have to have faith, certainly not in the usual and common sense of the word, that those things brought everything into being, heck I don't even have to accept that thety are correct theories or observations really, I can just provisionally accept them, or not accept them at all, without having to rely on 'faith'.

I think the thing I alluded to earlier is a good analogy. Christians, for example, have faith in their god, and don't require faith in the non-existence of the other gods right?

croat69
What evidence do u have that Good doesnt exhist?

I think that the point is that atheists notice that there is no evidence that god does exist. From that they say, "well, I need faith then to beleive that god exists, and I have no faith, therefore I do not beleive". That seems to be the position of the atheists that I have been able to gather.

Indeed, what would evidence for the nonexistence of god even look like? Or evidence for god over no god for that matter?

Hey all you god people out there, if there's a god, then how do you explain him being here? Did god have parents? Who created god's parents? God's grandparents? Who created them? A cosmic fart?