Paradox Waves - Time Travel to the Past Does Not Affect the Present

originally posted by: Frocharocha
f anything stayed in the same timeline it woud create too many paradoxes.

Actually there can be an infinite amount of paradoxes - since the present keeps going futureward at the speed of +1 second each seconds, these paradoxes never catch up the present, and causality is preserved.

Additionally, more paradoxes in the time axis simply means more alternative universes, for alternative timelines are located between paradox waves; paradox waves represent the boundaries to such universes.

originally posted by: swanne

originally posted by: anonentity
This I assume is the point where in quantum science says all information is saved.

Saved yes, but made very chaotic - the mere energy of the event horizon would destroy anything, reducing it into an elemental stream.

The Laws of this Universe state that the speed of light cannot be violated, but this law would not apply at the boundary point to another Universe, or even a point in this universe that all rational laws were suspended, like the event horizon

In other words, you are saying FTL could be possible given the right conditions...

But if the speed of light is to be exceeded, it has to happen somewhere else than the event horizon. See, the faster a black hole spins, the smaller its event horizon shrinks - the two variables are related. The only place where mass energy reaches infinity is at the singularity point - but then, it's possible nothing exists at the singularity according to the Quantum Model, since particles cannot occupy an infinitively small point.

According to Relativity, nothing can go faster than light, period, even inside a black hole. But then, how to test my time travel theory if nothing can go FTL because of energy limitation?

Wormholes should work, though. They are not true FTL but they can still result in time travel.

Yes and no, when the speed of the collapsing black hole reaches the speed of light, in the singularity, As the speed of the collapsing system reaches the speed of light, we know that it cant violate the speed of light law. But if it did n't it would turn all the matter into energy and blow the known universe apart, around 99.9% sol. So as a proposition ?? it must exit the universe. Probably by jumping out of our timeline. Leaving the Observer gazing at the frozen aspect, of said jump. The jump most probably would be back in time as that is what seems to be occurring as the other guy is approaching the event horizon, as he is going slower then finally gets frozen, as far as the observer is concerned.
The circumference of the event horizon of the black hole would be the, first part to reach the speed of light boundary, this would start the sequence of matter exiting the universe, id think once this point had been reached some sort of time bubble would spread over the whole thing, and what we would be observing is the last aspect of the collapse, the frozen time. Which might mean its something mechanical.
When a black hole forms, it must be operating with a limit of available matter, after its gravitational pull has pulled in all the matter in its gravitational feeding area, the only thing left is light itself. The moment light is bent into a black hole, the vector of the bend, would theoretically cause the light to speed up, as it approaches the black hole, so as not to violate its own laws, the light slows down time so as not to violate the Speed of light law in this universe, at least not until it reaches the event horizon where it can then exit the universe.

originally posted by: Rabb420
a reply to: swanne

what if instead of history rewriting itself it just caused a new universe to be created/the stream of time to be split off. so when the message is sent back it then creates a different timeline one where the earth isn't destroyed while the timeline where earth is destroyed still exists but in a parallel universe? its early so i apologize if that doesnt make any sense

and perhaps one where superman dismantles it instead. the asteroid i mean, not the earth.

originally posted by: anonentity

originally posted by: swanne

originally posted by: anonentity
This I assume is the point where in quantum science says all information is saved.

Saved yes, but made very chaotic - the mere energy of the event horizon would destroy anything, reducing it into an elemental stream.

The Laws of this Universe state that the speed of light cannot be violated, but this law would not apply at the boundary point to another Universe, or even a point in this universe that all rational laws were suspended, like the event horizon

In other words, you are saying FTL could be possible given the right conditions...

But if the speed of light is to be exceeded, it has to happen somewhere else than the event horizon. See, the faster a black hole spins, the smaller its event horizon shrinks - the two variables are related. The only place where mass energy reaches infinity is at the singularity point - but then, it's possible nothing exists at the singularity according to the Quantum Model, since particles cannot occupy an infinitively small point.

According to Relativity, nothing can go faster than light, period, even inside a black hole. But then, how to test my time travel theory if nothing can go FTL because of energy limitation?

Wormholes should work, though. They are not true FTL but they can still result in time travel.

Yes and no, when the speed of the collapsing black hole reaches the speed of light, in the singularity, As the speed of the collapsing system reaches the speed of light, we know that it cant violate the speed of light law. But if it did n't it would turn all the matter into energy and blow the known universe apart, around 99.9% sol. So as a proposition ?? it must exit the universe. Probably by jumping out of our timeline. Leaving the Observer gazing at the frozen aspect, of said jump. The jump most probably would be back in time as that is what seems to be occurring as the other guy is approaching the event horizon, as he is going slower then finally gets frozen, as far as the observer is concerned.
The circumference of the event horizon of the black hole would be the, first part to reach the speed of light boundary, this would start the sequence of matter exiting the universe, id think once this point had been reached some sort of time bubble would spread over the whole thing, and what we would be observing is the last aspect of the collapse, the frozen time. Which might mean its something mechanical.
When a black hole forms, it must be operating with a limit of available matter, after its gravitational pull has pulled in all the matter in its gravitational feeding area, the only thing left is light itself. The moment light is bent into a black hole, the vector of the bend, would theoretically cause the light to speed up, as it approaches the black hole, so as not to violate its own laws, the light slows down time so as not to violate the Speed of light law in this universe, at least not until it reaches the event horizon where it can then exit the universe.

Which makes me think, that when light somehow increases in speed, what would it do ? we know e=mc/2 but light is the only thing that travels at the speed of light, if for some reason it went faster, the only thing it could do is slow down in time to compensate, and the observer would be none the wiser. Unless it time warped him or her. A lot of the time anomalies seem to involve balls of light.

originally posted by: anonentity
As the speed of the collapsing system reaches the speed of light, we know that it cant violate the speed of light law.

I must confess that I have trouble picturing such system - how can a system collapsing at the speed of light also be collapsing faster than light?

But if it did n't it would turn all the matter into energy and blow the known universe apart, around 99.9% sol. So as a proposition ?? it must exit the universe.

But then, we must keep in mind that we are dealing with infinite values. Amongst them, an Infinite Gravitational Field. Since a gravitational field causes space time to bend, should not this imply thast an infinite gravitational field would cause spacetime to curve to infinity, thus making it capable of "storing" an infinite quantity of in-falling matter/energy?

light slows down time so as not to violate the Speed of light law in this universe, at least not until it reaches the event horizon where it can then exit the universe.

You mean until it reaches the singularity.

You make a good point, but isn't this point at odd with the possibilty of FTL inside the very same black hole, which you proposed earlier?

a reply to: Astyanax

You know, this 'theory' was published 109 years ago, and has survived countless attempts to disprove it.

Because we haven't exceeded the speed of light yet? Has anything, anywhere?

Of course, we still live in "flatlandia", so we don't know from "up".

Maybe in the next dimension we are everywhere and every when at once and there is no need to travel from "here" to there". Distance and time become irrelevant. We don't move, we are already there.

a reply to: swanne

Now all the ship has to do is send a faster-than-light message back at Earth, and the space-time frame's tilt relative to the Earth's frame makes it possible for the message to reach the Earth's past, at the time where the asteroid was still far from Earth

If the earth was saved from destruction that meant it was never destroyed in the first place so there was never a need to save it. Quite a paradox.

The problem I have with stopping time is time doesn't actually stop for either the home planet or the space craft zooming away faster than the speed of light. Its just the ship is moving faster than the light following it from the planet. So the ship looking back through a telescope sees a freeze frame of the planet, but the people on the ship are here and now and so are the people back on the planet.

originally posted by: intrptr
The problem I have with stopping time is time doesn't actually stop for either the home planet or the space craft zooming away faster than the speed of light. Its just the ship is moving faster than the light following it from the planet. So the ship looking back through a telescope sees a freeze frame of the planet, but the people on the ship are here and now and so are the people back on the planet.

Indeed.

This is why I made the proposition that the destoyed Earth continues on existing, for the destroyed Earth keeps on moving through Time, no matter what the ship does.

a reply to: swanne

but further studying of Einstein's Minkowski spaces show that when we go back in time, we stay in the same "universe".

Thats the bottom line…

No matter where we manage to go the place will always be called here.

a reply to: swanne

This is why I made the proposition that the destroyed Earth continues on existing, for the destroyed Earth keeps on moving through Time, no matter what the ship does.

So now theres two earths, one destroyed and one saved?

The problem I have with that is like "The Butterfly Effect. An endless miasma of separate spinoff realities. If the Universe is indeed old then we must be glitching all the time into different realities.

Sad to say, I have never "glitched". In "The Buttefly Effect" the only way that could work is if the main character was aware of all the paradoxes but no one else was. In the movie he tries desperately to get his girlfriend aware of it, too.

Its the old paradox, if I go back in time and kill my parents …

originally posted by: swanne

originally posted by: anonentity
As the speed of the collapsing system reaches the speed of light, we know that it cant violate the speed of light law.

I must confess that I have trouble picturing such system - how can a system collapsing at the speed of light also be collapsing faster than light?

But if it did n't it would turn all the matter into energy and blow the known universe apart, around 99.9% sol. So as a proposition ?? it must exit the universe.

But then, we must keep in mind that we are dealing with infinite values. Amongst them, an Infinite Gravitational Field. Since a gravitational field causes space time to bend, should not this imply thast an infinite gravitational field would cause spacetime to curve to infinity, thus making it capable of "storing" an infinite quantity of in-falling matter/energy?

light slows down time so as not to violate the Speed of light law in this universe, at least not until it reaches the event horizon where it can then exit the universe.

You mean until it reaches the singularity.

You make a good point, but isn't this point at odd with the possibilty of FTL inside the very same black hole, which you proposed earlier?

I really don't know, because the speed of light and time dilation is relative to an observer, I suppose that means for one observer the same laws might very well be different, time and space are linked and are perhaps the different sides of the same coin. As someone approaches the speed of light their time slows, but only to the observer, we could speculate that if it was possible to exceed the speed of light, to the observer they would seem to be frozen at that threshold speed, in fact at the same point that the guy on the event horizon seemed frozen, to the observer. But that effect is because the observer can only see up to that certain point, where he exits the observers timeline. Which might also be the point where he exits this Universe.

a reply to: anonentity

Another thing that occurred to me, is that of the structure of the event horizon. It cant be made of matter because all the matter has been sucked into the singularity. So it might be a field of some sort, composed of light itself accelerated to the point where as the light vectors into the singularity it should be travelling faster than light, but as it cannot in this Universe, it compensates by adjusting its time, so the question is when all the mass that was originally in the black hole has popped into another universe or back in time or wherever. Are we now looking at an artefact of what once was, frozen in time from our point of view? caused by anomalous light that is hung in some type of field, where it no longer has the energy to speed up its time by slowing down its speed and thus dissipate itself back in this universe. Once the Black hole is mature and not gathering anymore available matter?, obviously they don't seem to just pop out of existence.
So if the time dilation is caused by a field, that is caused by altering the speed of light in a specific local .Why shouldn't this occur in other ways. Pure conjecture but its fun. Where you get reports of time slips, orbs or "the light seemed strange" seems to be a recurring theme.

a reply to: intrptr

So now theres two earths, one destroyed and one saved?

Precisely. One is in the present and one is in the past. Since both move at the future at the speed of +1 second each second, one never reach the other. They both form two alternate realities, separated by a spacelike paradox wave. The history of an universe is not defined by its past on the time axis but by its memory it retains from its past. Since memories moves futureward along with rest of the universe, history is preserved for such universe.

The problem I have with that is like "The Butterfly Effect. An endless miasma of separate spinoff realities.

I am guessing this is a film? I have not seen it... sorry...

Its the old paradox, if I go back in time and kill my parents

If you go back and kill your parents before they conceive you, you would still exist. History would indeed rewite itself, but the re-writing itself has a finite speed, during which your existence, which too moves in time, will survive in the future section of the paradox boundary.

a reply to: swanne

History would indeed rewite itself,

How do you know? Since history rewrote itself, there is no history of it.

See The Butterfly Effect. Right down that alley.

The problem with your idea is that every time someone travels in time the whole Universe "doubles" and thats just ridiculous.Think about it, one person goes jump and every single star and galaxy "rewrites itself"?

A better scenario is that when you die you become omniscient or every where at once. Explained by the Hypercube. Ever heard of a Hypercube? I did a post on it a while back. We live in the third dimension, we are bound by time and space. Outside of time and space there is no where and when , only every where and every when.

Kind of hard to describe because we can't "see" the fourth dimension, just like 2d people can't fathom "up". When you are everywhere at once there is no need for travel, you are already there. You don't have to go "back in time", because you are every when, too. Just like we can't see that from our perspective, "over there" there are rules that let us see here, but not affect it, directly.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: intrptr
How do you know? Since history rewrote itself, there is no history of it.

We cannot know, since the rewrite point is in the past. The "history" we perceive from the past is composed of the memory and the records we have from the said past, and since memory cells and recording devices are objects which follow along you as you all move in time, the memories and the records you have of the past are preserved as long as the rewrite point does not reach these said memories and records which move along you in Time.

The problem with your idea is that every time someone travels in time the whole Universe "doubles" and thats just ridiculous.

The universe does not double, it simply stays the same universe with but with a new, alternate version of events.

Think about it, one person goes jump and every single star and galaxy "rewrites itself"?

Only that which is caused by the person's action is changed - much like what happens in normal time.

A better scenario is that when you die you become omniscient or every where at once. Explained by the Hypercube. Ever heard of a Hypercube? I did a post on it a while back. We live in the third dimension, we are bound by time and space. Outside of time and space there is no where and when , only every where and every when.

I will check your thread, and thus I thank you for you posting the link. But I cannot help to wonder in what way is death is more desirable than physical time travel to the past?...

a reply to: swanne

The universe does not double, it simply stays the same universe with but with a new, alternate version of events.

You say "alternates", A whole different Universe, right? Thats a double.

a reply to: swanne

Only that which is caused by the person's action is changed - much like what happens in normal time.

In which Universe? The same one or the "alternate"? Can't have it both ways.

a reply to: swanne

But I cannot help to wonder in what way is death is more desirable than physical time travel to the past?…

There is no death only change. You'll see. Everyone is going there. We cant take any of this with us. Except who we are and what we have done.

Have you ever remembered something and then realized that you just dreamt it? Maybe you didn't.

a reply to: intrptr

You say "alternates", A whole different Universe, right? Thats a double.

Hard to answer.

If a bridge is say 500 feet, and is old, and I get workers to renovate it, and in the first week they replace the first 250 feet of the bridge, does that make (at that precise moment) the bridge double, or is it still the one and same bridge? Considering that its last 250 feet are old and its first 250 feet are new (made of an alternate material)?

In which Universe? The same one or the "alternate"?

In both. If you do not travel back in time, your actions will only change that which is causally related to your actions. And if you go back in time, and live in an alternate reality, your actions in this alternate universe will still only change that which is causally related to your actions.

There is no death only change. You'll see. Everyone is going there. We cant take any of this with us. Except who we are and what we have done.

I agree. Unfortunately for you and me, Scientism is materialist in nature... it only dwells in what is physical, and find no use for theories of that which is physical no more. When we talk about time travel, it is usually with the hope of physically going there.

But this seems to slowly be changing... Might I bring your attention to the thought experiment called "quantum suicide", and to "quantum immortality"? It's really interesting, I believe you will like the read.