You Don't Agree With ME? Then YOU Must Be Terminated!

originally posted by: tavi45
What makes mine ridiculous and yours not? There's more evidence for Christian genocide than NWO genocide if you wanna get technical. Funny how anything that says Christians aren't perfect is immediately shot down

. If Christians are so great and secure in their greatness why are they always so defensive?

First of all, there is no such thing as “Christian genocide”

Anyone who says otherwise is either lying, deluded, or simply does not know the true meaning of the word “Christian”.

Contrary to what religion says, saying or believing one is a Christian does not MAKE it so.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven…” Matthew 7:21-23

Nick: How many people are gonna blow themselves up in your name today in the Middle East?

Jesus: In my name? None.

Nick: What about the people that blow up abortion clinics?

Jesus: I've never once asked anyone to blow up an abortion clinic.

a reply to: Murgatroid

Does the same, then, not apply to other religions as well? For example Islam or Judaism?

originally posted by: Hefficide
Does the same, then, not apply to other religions as well? For example Islam or Judaism?

That would depend on whether or not Allah, Buddha, Krishna, Zeus, etc. were God.

All of them contradict one another.

Religion is nothing but a counterfeit.

The counterfeits wouldn't exist unless the genuine existed as well.

a reply to: Murgatroid

If there is no Christian genocide there is no Muslim genocide. You can't have it both ways.

Also lets not turn this into a bible quoting thread. I beg you. I already read the bible. I don't need you cherry picking it back to me.

First of all, there is no such thing as “Christian genocide”

I'm not saying there is, but if the US is indeed Christian, then yea, guilty.

Iraqi War Casualties

Whats a million people dead? What kind of numbers are you looking for...

a reply to: nrd101

We're secular when we go to war but Christian the rest of the time. Didn't you know that?

a reply to: tavi45

Keep patting yourselves on the back. This thread shows exactly how us vs them works.

My previous point ... exactly!!

It's so easy to divide ourselves 'willingly' ... that it takes very little, or even the subtlest push, to create 'sides'.

I didn't even talk 'to' you or 'at' you, and look at the result. How what I said was 'received' is as much to blame as the way I intentionally 'delivered' it in-thread to ensure the point was made.

I hope I didn't hurt your 'feelings' because focusing on them was necessary ... and that was far from any long-term intent. I hope 'we're still good', because we get nowhere by alienating one another, even on a discussion board.

-Cheers

a reply to: Snarl

You just sided with the guy who started attacking me and implied he was in the right.

Even in your post just now you took a jab at me, implying that I'm butthurt. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but I doubt it, since you haven't given me any credit at all.

My original post in this thread was intended to represent the viewpoint of the younger generations and explain why they might attack the older generations. It was responded to with an attack. So why support him and not me? At the least you could have given both of us credit.

My main issue lies in the fact that this thread is about the older people getting attacked and when I interjected with an explanation of possible grievances based on my own experience and those I've seen here and in real life I was instantly attacked.

My feelings are not hurt at all but perhaps you can direct this to your side as well. You say that taking sides is a problem but you picked a side and it was the one you are part of. I agree with your sentiments exactly but they aren't really workable yet.

The best way I can explain this is the fact that I'm gay. I'm as far from stereotypically gay as possible and have never wanted anything to do with gay rights. Lately though I've been getting pushed more and more into being active about gay rights. I have to avoid mentioning my boyfriend around clients because I know many of them are not cool with it. Not long ago I had a bartender be incredibly rude and unwelcoming to me and my boyfriend. When my boyfriend visits my town I am very careful about PDA as I'm worried a parent might be a bigot and cause problems for my bosses' small business. I listen to people everywhere discuss how they hate me right in front of me. Almost all of these are religious people since there is no logical reason for being anti gay besides religion

I know that the fact that I can live in a mild state of discomfort and fear rather than outright fear for my life comes from all the hard courageous work of those who have more courage and conviction than I do.

So you say take no sides. It seems to me I should be against religious zealots and with gay rights zealots. If you were in my situation what would you do? It seems like continuing my usual course of not making waves and not picking a side is weak and cowardly even if it has some basis in my deep respect for others. I'm the kind of person who lowers the volume of my car radio in well populated areas, lets people go ahead of me in line at the grocery store, and gives money to any homeless guy I pass (even though my family and friends say I shouldn't because he might buy booze, I say homeless people deserve booze more than anyone).

Next time I hear someone spouting anti gay bigotry, do I just let it go entirely and nod and smile? Do I speak up for myself and my kind? Should I continue to try to "respect" others by keeping things private? Or should I kiss my boyfriend in public no matter who is around?

I hope you respond as you seem quite reasonable. I'd really love to see you hash this situation out based on your philosophy. I agree with your philosophy but it seems nearly impossible to implement in practical real life situations. In my ideal world there'd be no sides. My motto had always been "live and let live" despite what Ketuko said. My real personality is not the same as my words on here, nor are the words I say always my true position on a matter. I've loved playing Devil's advocate since a very young age. So how is "live and let live" possible in a world where I've never ever been left alone no matter how much I begged to be. I think we can all agree you can't let a psychopathic serial killer just follow his dreams with no interference.

This is probably a bit long and I'm sure someone will misconstrue it. Words are an incredibly poor method is communication, especially in short bursts with no body language to go with them. Feel free to ask for clarification. I'm an open book. Either way I look forward to further discussion.

Maybe I frequent the wrong (or right) threads but I've never once seen anyone say anything remotely like anything you pointed out lol... Care to give a few examples? Should be easy seeing as so many are apparently saying it XD

a reply to: tavi45

You just sided with the guy who started attacking me and implied he was in the right.

I stated how I 'feel' in a public venue. And, even though I clearly support a specific reply Ketsuko made in-thread, it is you who inferred I must think you are therefore in the wrong. You saw one stark point and may have missed the overarching message.

FWIW, I starred posts of differing viewpoints throughout this thread. There's a point to the OP, and you'll have to forgive me for not plunging headlong down the other rabbit hole.

a reply to: Metallicus
Allegedly I'm a progressive pseudo lib anarchist atheist person who likes porpoises. They're pretty cool animals.

When I log into ATS I seem to spend a lot of time defending conservatives, Christians and turtles. Whenever a Christian stars one of my posts my demon skin actually burns.

Because of all this I have a reoccurring nightmare where I wake up and realize the turtles have been controlling me all along and I actually live in a church.

Seems to be a lot of people that think their utopia will exist in their life time and talk like they're super heroes triumphing over evil (on a web board no less). The unfortunate thing is it actually does have a huge cultural impact on web boards and social media. For a lot of people discussion is a zero sum game sadly.

a reply to: tavi45

.......... and gives money to any homeless guy I pass (even though my family and friends say I shouldn't because he might buy booze, I say homeless people deserve booze more than anyone).

Lol! I love this! I do it too. In fact, a girlfriend was in the car with me a couple of weeks ago, and I gave money to a homeless guy outside a convenience store, and she said the same thing about buying booze with it. I said "Yeah, I know, that's why I gave it to him".

(Of course, my rationalization is that alcohol withdrawal can kill you quite dead, and I could tell he was getting the shakes.)

But I like your response much better!

Tavi45.

Hi again. I have a million things to do today,( none of which I want to do). But, I want you to know something, and know it in your heart, or try to believe it.

You want to know what Christians really do when we are together? Whether it be in church, or a small study group, or a private Bible lesson in someone's home insofar as the ME goes? We pray. We pray for "peace in the middle east", and have done so since I can remember. We have done so since I was so young I wasn't even sure why we did it. Unfortunately, I know now, and have known for a very long time.

We pray for peace. We pray that God will stop the violence, protect the innocent, and move hearts and minds away from killing and brainwashing. We pray to stop the suffering. To provide food drink and shelter. Never once have I heard anyone pray for the region to be turned to glass, or for them to all drop dead. Not once.

That's the truth.

Of course, during the Gaza/Israeli conflict recently, I started to make a thread entitled "Why I've stopped praying for Peace in the Middle East". But I decided not to. But I don't pray for it anymore. I still pray for comfort for the innocent, and for some miracle to happen to clear the minds and hearts of the killers, but for peace? No.

I even once asked God to have a talk with Allah, should he see him, and see if he, perhaps, could get the killers to cut the innocent a little slack. That didn't help either.

About Christians getting defensive......... We take a lotta crap, people bringing up the Crusades, and other ancient history, and I let most things slide. But sometimes something is either such an evil attempt to make Christianity look as bad as Jihadists muslims, or somehow insinuate we are plotting some kind of 'genocide", I have to speak up. I do feel defensive at times.

So there. I love the fact that you are openly gay, and I love that you told us some personal things about yourself.
Now I have too.

My best,
liw

originally posted by: luciddream
I can notice difference in my parents as well, of course i dont want them to be exterminated, i just want them to shut up since they dont understand how economy works now a days.

Its a not the good old days anymore, we dont have a job waiting when we get out of school(with debt), buying a house is a lifetime investment, not your back in the day $80,000 a house.

Young people with degrees work at a burger joint to pay for people that are getting pension, and when those young people get to the old age, it would be worse than how old people have it now.

So old people(soon to retire/retired), enjoy the life you are living, cause next generation will not be so lucky as you. There wont be any governement pension or any type of money coming to them.

Unfortunately, your great grandparents if they are still alive have gone through no job, can't buy a house, etc. It was called the great depression. My mother and father lived through it.
I know it seems to you like your generation is the first to experience this, but really history is one big cycle.
There really is nothing new under the sun.

History repeats, but just far enough apart that many don't realize or see the cycle or think, we are different.
Take a good look at the great depression and then if your parents or grandparents have passed on lessons from that time, it can help you look at things in perspective.

Aristotle complained about how rude, ill mannered and rash young people are,
nothing new under the sun.
The young since time immemorial have also complained that the old don't understand or haven't experienced what they have
nothing new under the sun.

If you are interested, start studying history, it can be fascinating with the right authors, and you will begin to see the pattern. It is only when someone who sees the pattern, recognizes it, can then act to change the hundreds of thousands of years of the same mistakes over and over.

If it doesn't offend you to read the bible, start with Ecclesiastes. That is a real eye opener as to how things really haven't changed in over 3000 years. I don't want you to read it with religion in mind, but as a observer of history.

a reply to: Snarl

So the only part of my huge post you responded to is the part where I said you sided against me. You respondned by saying you didn't side against me and blame me for inferring it. If two people are arguing and you walk up, stand beside one guy, and say "you're totally right man", you've picked a side.

Putting all the blame on me for being defensive is the biggest slap in the face I've gotten on here so far. I was attacked, why shouldn't I be defensive?

You still have yet to give me an ounce of credit for anything but have continued to imply that I have only myself to blame for reading your posts how I did.

What's the overarching message again? I thought it was " don't take sides". You took a side, however you wanna dress it up. If you wanted to stay neutral then why not give me some credit.

I look forward to a less condescending more lengthy response from you. I'm not here to win. I don't care about stars. I can't give them or see them. I care about mediating the divide between the group I've been placed in and the group you support. You've made plenty of inferences about me. Let's not engage in double standards here.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I know I for one am well aware of the great depression. My family took care of my grandfather (who has Parkinson's and alzheimers) in his last decade. I watched him clip coupons obsessively, hoard food, and shower by turning on the water for seconds to get wet then soaping up completely with the water off, then turning on the water just long enough to rinse.

I took care of an old lady for 3 years who was left in squalor and loneliness because her family was too selfish and screwed up to do it. I chatted with her endlessly.

This thread is about not picking sides but yet the old people here seem very willing to paint the young with broad strokes but then get angry when the young do it to the old.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I have nothing but respect for good Christians. My whole family is Christian for starters.

"But sometimes something is either such an evil attempt to make Christianity look as bad as Jihadists muslims, or somehow insinuate we are plotting some kind of 'genocide", I have to speak up. I do feel defensive at times."

Many Christians want to blame all Muslims for the killings of Muslim extremists and evil deeds of Muslim nations. The point is that individual members of the religion can't be held responsible for the acts of others. Christians use this to defend themselves but rarely extend the same benefit to Muslims.

America is a Christian nation so Muslims attribute much of the actions of it to Christianity in the same way Americans do so to Muslims. Christians have used religion to justify attacking the Middle East just add Muslims have used religion to justify attacking the West. I dislike this double standard and so like to point it out.

Once again I hope you can see I'm not coming from a place of Christian hatred but of concern for all peoples. You seem like the good kind of Christian but this country is absolutely loaded with the bad kind who missed the core message of Jesus, which is the message of love. Too many Christians engage in hate. I'm glad you aren't one of them.

originally posted by: luciddream
I can notice difference in my parents as well, of course i dont want them to be exterminated, i just want them to shut up since they dont understand how economy works now a days.

Its a not the good old days anymore, we dont have a job waiting when we get out of school(with debt), buying a house is a lifetime investment, not your back in the day $80,000 a house.

Young people with degrees work at a burger joint to pay for people that are getting pension, and when those young people get to the old age, it would be worse than how old people have it now.

So old people(soon to retire/retired), enjoy the life you are living, cause next generation will not be so lucky as you. There wont be any governement pension or any type of money coming to them. i just want them to shut up since they dont understand how economy works now a days.

Not to get too far from the question, "Why do people want to destroy a different opinion." but I really wanted to address the thinking in this post."Young people with degrees work at a burger joint to pay for people that are getting pension,". There seems to be in this statement, a resentment toward the earlier generation. First of all I would have to say this poster's anger and dissatisfaction is misdirected. And I would suggest that this misdirection is the direct result of an intention. The intention of whom, is the question.

To answer that question let's look at this statement, " i just want them to shut up since they dont understand how economy works now a days." Maybe that's why the economy did work for them, they understood it. You my friend on the other hand don't seem to have a clue. The very people who have misdirected your anger are the same ones who have taken the meat of the economy and left you with that burger flipping job.

Get a backbone man. Don't let these as***es do this to you.

Older people didn't get what they got from sitting on their ass. My father fought for a bigger piece of the pie. These guys stared down the powers that be. They acted together, and they won.

The old guy on social security is not the cause of your problem. You and your generation must and will identify those responsible, and when together you show them the wisdom of change, they will concede.

In my opinion there is really only one type of person which would benefit society if they were to disappear, and that is intolerant people...Which is the type of person you are essentially describing. Think about how conceited someone must be to believe that they are so intelligent that all their answers are correct, while those of the rest of the people are not only wrong, but are so wrong that the person would benefit society by just dying. Or worse, being killed by someone with the "right" point of view. This is the same mentality the Nazis had by the way, which is scary considering we should be progressing away from such blatant anti-intellectualism and such a lack of moral fiber.

Values tend to shift towards liberality as time goes on, which is a good thing in my opinion. There were times in history, and things that still occur in some places today, where things are so conservative that people are killed for their beliefs. (I do not mean liberal or conservative as a political ideology by the way.) But things would be even worse if things got so liberal that people were killed for their beliefs, as it would be reverting to a strict adherence to values, even at the cost of human lives. That is not to say that it hasn't happened throughout history in one way or another, but generally a trend towards liberalism means that there should be less violence, at least the way I understand it. The good news is that I have not noticed what you describe, at least not on ATS. I have seen a lot of intolerance that is misguided however. Well now that I think about it, I have seen such statements where extremists are concerned...But I do not think there is any arguing the point that the world would be a better place without those who would perpetrate heinous acts against other people, especially for such transient reasons. So I think we should only "eliminate" those people who wish to kill others. In that sense we would be doing things in accordance with the moral values of law, at least in principle. Take those off the streets who wish to deprive others of their lives, thus making everyone safer.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

www.debate.org...

I've heard many right wing Christians say we should bomb the middle East until it's glass.

I read the page - both sides.

Where were the Christians you claimed to have read there?