MAD Punishment - 20 years in prison for Palestinians that throw rocks at cars.

a reply to: EaglesFan

Lol. I can tolerate anyones beliefs as long as they don't include blind hatred or harming others.

I have a background understanding of Islam thank you. I understand Islam well enough to know it's not much different from Christianity or Judaism.

Which particular brand of Islam are you anyways? Islam is not one unified religion, so which version do you profess as the correct one?

Every religion has mindless adherents who miss the real message of religion in favor of latching onto the details in order to feel justified and superior.

You don't have to like homosexuality but you do have to accept it and respect it, if you want to be part of civilized society.

FYI being religious is a behavior too. One could easily use your line of thinking to attack Islam like you attack homosexuality. In fact that is exactly the attitude that keeps this situation in Palestine going.

If you wanna call me a Satanist, feel free. I don't pay homage to Satan so it would be silly though.

Long story short be part of the solution, not the problem. Adding more hate to the mix solves nothing. For the record I don't hate you so don't try to accuse me of that. I'm just disappointed that your mind is so closed. Feel free to disprove of homosexuality but when you put out messages that it is evil, it's not disapproval, it's bigotry.

a reply to: tavi45

I understand Islam well enough to know it's not much different from Christianity or Judaism.

Prove it.

FYI the God of Israel is also the God of Christianity and Islam.

FYI, I don't need your FYI about the God I worship!

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: EaglesFan

Lol. I can tolerate anyones beliefs as long as they don't include blind hatred or harming others.

So how the hell can you tolerate your own government then which is 1) the most ruthless killer in the world and 2) the leader of modern society at the same time?

I have a background understanding of Islam thank you. I understand Islam well enough to know it's not much different from Christianity or Judaism.

Islam is very similar too those two religions, I agree with you.

Which particular brand of Islam are you anyways? Islam is not one unified religion, so which version do you profess as the correct one?

What do you mean what brand of Islam am I? Though there are NOT meant to be sects in Islam I agree with the Sunni teachings but I am also open to information from the Shia teachings. As long as both are observing the 5 Pillars of Islam, the rest doesn't matter.

Every religion has mindless adherents who miss the real message of religion in favor of latching onto the details in order to feel justified and superior.

Every society has people like that..

You don't have to like homosexuality but you do have to accept it and respect it, if you want to be part of civilized society.

I live in a civilzed society and have spoken too many people about this issue, most I speak too agree with my opinion about Homosexuality. It's not the big deal you make it out to be.. There are many people who do not like being forced to believe or accept something they do not agree with. You just don't hear about them because they don't like the idea of being persecuted for it by the authorities of modern society.

FYI being religious is a behavior too. One could easily use your line of thinking to attack Islam like you attack homosexuality. In fact that is exactly the attitude that keeps this situation in Palestine going.

You make it sound as though I agree with some of the behaviors of religious people or something? I understand that some religious people would probably be better off in a cemetary for what they do.. But I judge their actions by the teachings and if it conflicts with the teachings then they are not my brothers.

If you wanna call me a Satanist, feel free. I don't pay homage to Satan so it would be silly though.

It's just a word to explain someone without spiritual insight.. They cannot see with their internal eye.. They only see with the external eyes.

Long story short be part of the solution, not the problem. Adding more hate to the mix solves nothing. For the record I don't hate you so don't try to accuse me of that. I'm just disappointed that your mind is so closed. Feel free to disprove of homosexuality but when you put out messages that it is evil, it's not disapproval, it's bigotry.

My mind is closed? Homosexuality runs against the laws of nature.. If Men and Men were meant to be together they would be producing children, the same as Woman and Woman. Even if I didn't submit to any religion or teaching I would still disagree with Homosexuality... Why would I agree with something I would never commit myself? Why would I accept something that I find disgraceful? Don't tell me what I should and shouldn't be accepting.. What you are actually showing me is that the Homosexual issue is sort of like forced conversion in some religious groups.

originally posted by: TruthLover557
a reply to: tavi45

FYI the God of Israel is also the God of Christianity and Islam.

Even the God of Israel had conditions which must be followed through the teachings of the Torah, Bible and the Qu'ran.. Today, the secular State of Israel does NOT even consider the teachings of Judaism in it's operations.. The current State of Israel is not Holy and therefore the God of todays Israel is not the God of Islam or Christianity or Judaism.

a reply to: EaglesFan

Nature has laws? Where can I read these laws? Did nature write a manifesto?

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: EaglesFan

Nature has laws? Where can I read these laws? Did nature write a manifesto?

When you can show me two Males or Two Females reproducing like a Male and a Female Human can, then maybe I will change my point of view... But there are natural laws that are here regardless of whether we agree, disagree, like, dislike and it doesn't matter if we have a manifesto or not... If people want to fuel themselves with what I would call Lust and Pleasure, go for it just don't expect everyone else to sympathize with you and don't push your beliefs upon me also. I will not accept something I disagree with and do not believe in and I will not fight for it either.

a reply to: EaglesFan

I assume you mean human because nature has plenty of reproduction without male and female sex. This is actually the most recent form of reproduction in the natural world.

So you've never had any sex except to produce a child, and then only with your wife?

No wonder you are so mad. You need to get laid more or maybe jerk off. You're against masturbation, oral sex, and porn though too right?

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: EaglesFan

I assume you mean human because nature has plenty of reproduction without male and female sex. This is actually the most recent form of reproduction in the natural world.

So you've never had any sex except to produce a child, and then only with your wife?

No wonder you are so mad. You need to get laid more or maybe jerk off. You're against masturbation, oral sex, and porn though too right?

I'm not mad, I just wont accept something being forced upon me.. I've had plenty of sex and no complaints at the same time but your solution to being mad just shows the morals being taught in modern society.. Very Low ones.

a reply to: EaglesFan

Hehe, ever consider no one would ever try to force their homosexual views on you if you just kept your bigoted views to yourself? What a weak argument.

If you never brought it up I never would have.

Did you marry the women you had sex with? That's a tenet of Islam you know that right?

Since sex is about procreation you knocked her up too right?

What's so morally low about defending oneself? It's fine for you but not for me?

Hypocrisy from a religious fundamentalist. How unrefreshing.

a reply to: tavi45

Yeah, maybe when modern society can weasel out all of it's problems then you can probably take a stab at religious folk.. But corruption and bad morals is what keeps a Democracy moving forward especially when it comes to earning a few extra votes and one can only guess what the end result will be for the people of those countries...

When you give the 50 Million people on the poverty line in America stability and a home then maybe you can knock religion.. USA, the richest country in the world yet 1 in every 5 or so cannot support themselves, let alone feed themselves properly.. So much for the land of opportunity ey?

There are bigger issues than sex but again, I will not support let alone fight for Homosexuality... It goes against my morals and you will just have to accept that. Btw, I have been having sex a couple of times a day for the past 3 weeks or so.. I am very happy and so is my 55kg girlfriend..

a reply to: EaglesFan

"Btw, I have been having sex a couple of times a day for the past 3 weeks or so.. I am very happy and so is my 55kg girlfriend.. "

I have no idea how much 55kg is. I assume thin since you brought it up. I have no idea what possessed you to get that specific. The fact that you think a gay dude cares about how thin your girlfriend is is pretty hilarious though. Where are you from anyways? I assumed Philly from your name.

Thanks for telling me you're a bad Muslim. Sex is for procreation. Or do you have a little one on the way?

"When you give the 50 Million people on the poverty line in America stability and a home then maybe you can knock religion.. USA, the richest country in the world yet 1 in every 5 or so cannot support themselves, let alone feed themselves properly.. So much for the land of opportunity ey?"

I'm the first to knock America for that kind of thing. If you think insulting my country will get to me youre clearly deluded. If you forgot I was in here supporting Palestine over Israel.

I don't even have a horse in that race and I'm on your side. You only support them through hatred for non Muslims. I support them through love for all people.

"when modern society can weasel out all of it's problems then you can probably take a stab at religious folk"

Which religious nation is your model for high morality. I'd be interested to know. America is far from.perfect but I don't think it has to do with becoming less religious. Many of our worst offenders in America are highly religious and the religious fundamentalists like yourself are some of the worst. You do realize that religion in America is a huge part of the reason we've killed so many Muslims, right?

"I will not support let alone fight for Homosexuality... It goes against my morals and you will just have to accept that."

No one is asking you to support or fight for homosexuality. I'm just asking you to not be a bigot or at the very least keep it to yourself. Is it so hard to just seethe on the inside at the happiness of others or must it boil over like a religious fundamentalist form of Tourettes syndrome?

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: EaglesFan

I have no idea how much 55kg is. I assume thin since you brought it up. I have no idea what possessed you to get that specific. The fact that you think a gay dude cares about how thin your girlfriend is is pretty hilarious though. Where are you from anyways? I assumed Philly from your name.

Actually, I'm now wondering why a Gay dude would worry about my sex life and the impact it has on my religion...

Thanks for telling me you're a bad Muslim. Sex is for procreation. Or do you have a little one on the way?

Here I'll give you a story.. I just got with a woman who was in a violent abusive relationship for the past 10 years... Now we are in love. She has 4 children and the ex is a drug/alcohol f**ded product of modern society.. Also she has told me that she has never actually been in love before she met me and this includes the doofus she was with for 10 years. So when you want to call me a bad Muslim, I laugh at you because I actually saved this woman from being beaten again and again by that ars*hole...

That man would accuse her of cheating, would control her money and what she done in her life.. She was constantly told she was going to be stabbed and along with that, he made her miscarriage with her first pregnancy and then also beat her while she was pregnant with one of her children. She was molested when she was 8 years old, her family turned on her and she has no-one... She and her ex have been seperated for roughly a month and I have been beside her each and every day. I do not drink alcohol because of My ex wife who was a disgusting drunk, call me what you want but you don't know crap about me...

I'm the first to knock America for that kind of thing. If you think insulting my country will get to me youre clearly deluded. If you forgot I was in here supporting Palestine over Israel.

I really don't care who you are supporting, being a homosexual, how about you keep your religious remarks to yourself just like you want me to keep my homosexual opinions to myself.

I don't even have a horse in that race and I'm on your side. You only support them through hatred for non Muslims. I support them through love for all people.

No, thats what you want to think... I do not hate non-muslims and my religion does not teach me to hate non-muslims.. You need to learn a bit more about Islam if that's what you really think.

Which religious nation is your model for high morality. I'd be interested to know. America is far from.perfect but I don't think it has to do with becoming less religious. Many of our worst offenders in America are highly religious and the religious fundamentalists like yourself are some of the worst. You do realize that religion in America is a huge part of the reason we've killed so many Muslims, right?

No, the reason is Democracy and a Secular country... They may pronounce that they are fighting some holy war but the US military is not a religious institution and never will be.

No one is asking you to support or fight for homosexuality. I'm just asking you to not be a bigot or at the very least keep it to yourself. Is it so hard to just seethe on the inside at the happiness of others or must it boil over like a religious fundamentalist form of Tourettes syndrome?

You just don't like someone who doesn't like what you do.. Bad luck is what I will say. And your just going to have to deal with it because there are many people like me who feel the exact same and nothing will change our perspectives either. As I said earlier, I don't give a crap what yo do, but at the very least you should respect why I disagree with it also but that is something that I haven't seen and I think it's people like you who have the attitude and not me..

Oh about where I'm from, America isn't the only country in the world.. Just because I use the word Eagle doesn't mean I'm an NFL supporter who lives in Philadelphia....

a reply to: EaglesFan

"Oh about where I'm from, America isn't the only country in the world.. Just because I use the word Eagle doesn't mean I'm an NFL supporter who lives in Philadelphia...."

So you won't share what country from or give me a model religious nation that is better than a secular nation? Probably because there isn't one. Secularism had worked far better than theocracies. In a theocracy like you want i'd be executed.

You will insult me for making a logical assumption though. Americans are incredibly common on this site and your name implies what i thought it did. I notice you also didn't explain the name. You just love the animal?

On the more important note though, kudos on helping out a woman like that. You're quite selfless. You haven't married her though so you are breaking tradition with your religion. I love the religious folk who cherry pick. You're exactly like the fundamentalist Christians we have here. Are you sure you're not American? They love to ignore the inconvenient parts of their religion in favor of "pleasure and lust" that you say you can't stand. So sex without procreation is fine even though you used procreation as the purpose for sexual relations when discussing natural law? Great mental gymnastics.

"No, thats what you want to think... I do not hate non-muslims and my religion does not teach me to hate non-muslims.. You need to learn a bit more about Islam if that's what you really think. "

So you only hate Jews and homosexuals. At least you don't hate ALL non Muslims. I know plenty about Islam. You are going against it by hating Jews. They are your brothers of the book. Sounds like you need to learn more.

"You just don't like someone who doesn't like what you do.. Bad luck is what I will say. And your just going to have to deal with it because there are many people like me who feel the exact same and nothing will change our perspectives either."

I just don't like people who have decided to hate me for something that is core to my being and immutable. That's literally the definition of a bigot. In other words if we were friends and you genuinely liked me on the spirit of my character and then years down the road I came out, you'd change your tune or so I suspect. You are correct, I don't know you. In the situation I just put forward, what would your response be. That will answer it all. Please have the courage to answer and defend your convictions. Don't dodge it by saying "we'd never be friends to begin with".

"you should respect why I disagree with it also but that is something that I haven't seen and I think it's people like you who have the attitude and not me."

Opinions should be worthy of respect. You have absolutely no basis in reality for that opinion except your religion's words but that is meaningless since you don't follow other details of it. Either you believe it all or you just believe the general ideas, which is it? It's the latter according to your own words.

You also said earlier that. "I agree with the Sunni teachings but I am also open to information from the Shia teachings. As long as both are observing the 5 Pillars of Islam, the rest doesn't matter.". Last I checked homosexuality isn't part of the 5 pillars. So which is it? Do you have a modern liberal interpretation of Islam or a strict conservative interpretation?

Again, you are correct I don't know you. I'm trying to understand you as it's important to understand why people hate me for something that harms no one at all and is intrinsic to who I am. I respect you, as I'm sure you are decent in real life. Your story of helping that woman out seems genuine and most people are pretty decent in real life. I am under no obligation to respect your opinion though. Respect is earned not given.

You've earned respect as a person by engaging in debate and showing yourself to not be a total fanatic. Your opinion on homosexuality has earned no such respect. Not that you care about the opinion of a homosexual as you said earlier. "I really don't care who you are supporting, being a homosexual". This reminds me of a little girl I work with who constantly demands attention and validation but when I give my opinion says " I don't care ".

So since you don't respect me or care about my opinion I think I'm being quite gracious in giving you respect. As I've said though, your opinion on homosexuality deserves no respect, not that you care. So what is your motive in engaging me if you don't care about my opinion and just want to be left alone? Also if you are so huge on being left alone and respected for your ideas maybe you should try and keep the ridiculous and obviously controversial ones to yourself. You should be prepared for people to be unhappy when you throw around things like that so casually. Gay people did not cause the wars in the Middle East or the genocide in Palestine. Why bring them into it?

I look forward to your response (especially to the hypothetical I proposed), although I have a feeling I won't get a real one, if I get one at all.

a reply to: AnuTyr

That's a damn ignorant comment if I've ever read one. Justice is supposed to be fair. In the USA there's a few laws 100 years old that say cruel and unusual punishment aren't allowed. NO ONE has the right to take away 20 years of a persons life for throwing a stone at a damn armored car of an oppressive, occupying, hypocritical, unjust, Zionist nation that even the damn UN General feels are war criminals. They bomb a school a freaking children and international aids and did any single one of them get 20 years? Or even a slap on the wrist? The 3 or more times they did it? They murder children on the beach and did any Jews get time in jail? Even their own generals and high ranking officers admit they do atrocious things to the Palestinian people. I hope Netanyahu burns in every type of hell every religion has, he deserves nothing more and nor do the rest of the ones trying to exterminate the Palestinians.

a reply to: tavi45

Look, this is just going around in circles.. The first person I had intercourse with I married and had children with... She then became a drunken idiot and we would eventually part ways. I do not drink alcohol, I do not gamble, I do not just go out there and have sex with random women... I find someone who I feel I could spend the rest of my life with and I have this time around regardless of whether we immediately marry or not. The 5 Pillars of Islam are mandatory and nothing about Marriage is mentioned in those 5 obligations..

As for the Homosexual thing, I don't recall saying I hate Homosexuals or Jews either. If I have please refer me to where I did and I will apologize because my views are not about hatred towards either. Firstly, around half of Jews in Israel consider themselves Atheist or Cultural with no direct connection to Judaism or practicing Judaism.. Are they real Jews or have they just nicked the label to pose as Jews? We need to get into that topic a bit further if we are going to have a meaningful debate about whether I actually hate Jews or not... I will say this, I do not hate Jews but I find the Hypocrites who pose as Jews pretty much Non-Believers and don't deserve the Jewish label in the first place..

As for Homosexuals, I am going to say this again.. I don't care what you or other homosexuals do in your lives, I have no control over that and never will but at the same time I am entitled to disagree with Homosexuality just as you have every right to disagree with Islam or Christianity.. Would I befriend you if you told me you were homosexual?? Of course not.. I would tell you I disagree because it's against my morals but there would be no need to demonize or hate you for it. Certainly no need to persecute you either.

Now if that act was being forced down my throat then I would maybe have something to say and today this is the case also when it comes to media and telling people how to think and feel about certain subjects. You want us people to just submit to your cause and lifestyle at all costs? The only one we submit to is Allah regardless of political correctness or not. Don't be offended, it's just the way it is and Homosexuality is prohibited in Islam.

I am only playing the reaction game with you and your probably doing the same which is probably why we aren't getting anywhere.. I see the deeper meanings in things and where I do maybe you don't either. But it's very hard to discuss religion with some who commits what is prohibited.. Why should I surrender to you and homosexuality (A disbeliever)?

That is the book! there is no doubt therein; a guide to the pious, who believe in the unseen

I shouldn't because this is the very first thing mentioned in the Qu'ran and because of what is written, it must be assumed that everything that follows is the entire truth and if Homosexuality is forbidden, then I cannot agree with it but I will also add this also.. I was not religious at one point and I still didn't agree with Homosexuality.. I have known Homosexual people, even commended them for being brave but do I agree with what they do? No, not because I hate them, because I wouldn't engage in it myself just like I wouldn't pick up a gun, head overseas and shoot innocent civilians.. But somehow we can find a way to justify those actions and label them people heroes also..

It is not a hate thing with me, I simply wouldn't do it myself and I disagree with it. I will stand my ground and not be told how to feel and think about anything... I don't just roll over to make people feel happy and comfortable, I will tell you exactly my feelings and if you don't agree with them, that OK but they are my feelings in the end.

a reply to: EaglesFan

"Would I befriend you if you told me you were homosexual?? Of course not."

I already assumed that but thanks for confirming.

You also did what I assummed and dodged my hypothetical. I'll ask again.

If we were friends for years and you thought I was a great guy. Just imagine it. It's hypothetical. So again we're the best of friends. I tell you after years that I'm gay. What would your response be?

A new hypothetical. If your close relative told you they were gay, what would your response be?

I asked two simple questions. Please answer them.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: EaglesFan

"Would I befriend you if you told me you were homosexual?? Of course not."

I already assumed that but thanks for confirming.

You also did what I assummed and dodged my hypothetical. I'll ask again.

If we were friends for years and you thought I was a great guy. Just imagine it. It's hypothetical. So again we're the best of friends. I tell you after years that I'm gay. What would your response be?

A new hypothetical. If your close relative told you they were gay, what would your response be?

I asked two simple questions. Please answer them.

The questions may be simple but the answer is pretty damn hard.. My response would be as I said in the previous post.. I do not agree with what you but I will not hate you for it at the same time.. Same with the family member, I do not agree with it but at the same time you are family.

I would be honest in both situations and there is nothing wrong with being honest.

a reply to: EaglesFan


Another dodge. Guess your ideals are pretty hard to practice in reality since you obviously aren't filled with hate, but have such an innately hateful viewpoint on this matter.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: EaglesFan


Another dodge. Guess your ideals are pretty hard to practice in reality since you obviously aren't filled with hate, but have such an innately hateful viewpoint on this matter.

I'm not dodging anything, but to say disagreeing with someones actions and hating them are the same thing is ridiculous. I disagreed with the way my ex wife would act when she was drunk but did that mean I hated her? No, I loved her no less.

We can disagree but we should never hate people because of our conflicting views... If I hated people because they are homosexual, do you think I would bother talking to you like I have? I wouldn't waste my time responding to you. Hating an action and hating a person are two completely different things.

a reply to: EaglesFan

"I'm not dodging anything"

You dodged the question I asked 3 separate times now. When you won't answer a question that's dodging. How about you answer the hypothetical? I'll ask again. If we were best friends for years and I came out to you, what would you do? Would we still be friends?

"If I hated people because they are homosexual, do you think I would bother talking to you like I have?"

You've only talked to me to maintain credibility. You've said numerous times you dont care about my opinion. I can quote you on that if you'd like.

"Hating an action and hating a person are two completely different things."

Being homosexual is not an action. Is being black an action? Is being Muslim an action? Is being American an action? Is being a woman an action?

Calling this a difference of opinion is really selling it short. I'm asking for dignity and respect for something intrinsic to my identity and you are saying you would never even consider it under any circumstances. That's a little more than a difference of opinion. I know it's hard to understand for you but I didn't just wake up one day and say "hey you know what, I'm gonna be gay because it sounds fun".

I know you won't give in on your position but at least have the courage and conviction to answer my hypothetical. If you believe in what you believe so strongly why are you so afraid to answer?