Thoughts on Organized Religion

Greetings,

I am looking for a bit of advice from our agnostic and atheist members. Recently, I've been thinking about the generalized acceptance of humanities organized religions. I'm finding myself seriously wondering if society as a whole, can continue to accept how we currently handle them and, well, survive.

Basically, I've recognized the very dark disconnect with reality said organizations can bring.

And before anyone freaks out, I'm not saying to ban books, human spirituality, or, anything about said quest. Nor, start closing down churches. Far from it.

What I mean is, it must be admitted by casual observers, that some organized religions have, and, are far more destructive to society, education, science, rights, etc, than others. Rather, it seems that fiction presented as unchallenged fact, without a reasonable chance to offer retort, is perpetuating Roman Era mythology. Not just in my nation, but others too.

How do we solve this, moving forward, without infringing on their rights as outlined in a secular society? Note I said secular, not divine right my religion is better than yours based. Should like minded individuals start to discuss using the education system more directly to remedy this? Perhaps a curriculum formed and focused on true history vs claimed and religiously biased and fabricated history? To give our youth knowledge, and, education to use against said claims? Or, do we wait for the millennials to reach critical mass to change the spirit of the age using sheer numbers?

How about supporting education through media? Sort of like Star Trek TNG writers did with the number 42? Simply just written in, without fanfare? What about using Dan Brown's novels, and, over reaction against them, as a template? He seems to have touched a tender spot. Imagine focusing on scripture breaking errors, and not Gnostic texts.

Any thoughts and ideas on how to reach a modern secular society? Simply just saturate the masses with truth until proof of said claims is demanded on a wide scale, rather than silently accepting the geocentric model of the universe is still true?

Thanks for your time.

Don't expect to change the opinions of religious people until you are willing to change your opinion to theirs.
You are convinced that you are right. So are they.

a reply to: Not Authorized

I think I've played with fire too much to get to keep my A card anymore, but I think it is all a fun puzzle all theoretical right up until the point that it isn't any longer. Honestly, I am all for anything that strikes at the root of our society in a non-violent way. I think reassortment is the only way for something new to pop up and if we don't try new and off the wall things to experiment and just see what happens, we have no hope of making progress. Or you could be Zen about it and accept that the one thing you haven't tried and makes zero sense from any perspective is the very secret everyone else has overlooked.

I like the divergent approach. I'm going to bounce a rubber ball off the wall in my room and one day shatter reality with it. ;p

Some of these ideas do really cool things to the way your mind thinks, but otherwise have little usefulness in a materialist universe of linear causality.

The Prophetic religions are in their death throws. They are likely to be the last, as mankind pushes further and further toward more complete understanding of it's surroundings.

I just hope they don't kill off too many of us with their holy wars.

a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

I was a fundamentalist Christian. I know the opinions, logic, and reasoning. I know they think they are right. I parroted the same thing. The indoctrination is quite sad and very hard to break free from.

I've already written off the older generation about this. You can't teach an old dog, new tricks. I'm thinking of ways to stop such destructive thinking from continuing on with our children, and, grandchildren.

The very first thing to do is to remove the tax exemption status of all religions and treat them simply as corporations seeking to make a profit, for that is what they are doing.

Next it should be illegal for religions to get involved in politics. It should be individual people that make policy, not these huge monolithic organizations. It is just stupid to allow an autocratic organization with a single dictator (eg, The Pope) to try and tell ordinary citizens in a democracy how to live their lives and how to vote at elections.

Lastly, threats of eternal damnation, torment in hell etc etc, should be treated similar to a threat to kill or harm. In mainstream society such threats are illegal and will land you in court. But in a religious setting, they are accepted and as such, the weak are preyed upon. If of course, the churches can prove eternal damnation in the fires of Hell, then fair enough, but that will not happen until hell freezes over.

The bottom line is that religion is a business and the business model has never changed. What churches get away with has changed over time and for the better.

Just as one example, how can you follow a church that burned people alive at the stake? How can you follow churches that are the most potent abusers of our children and to this very day, actively cover up these horrendous miss deeds.

P

a reply to: Not Authorized

I would say time will eventually eradicate twisted religious doctrine...

So let them die out and let the truth come to light...

As secular society becomes more and more prevalent people will (hopefully) demand a halt to various beliefs and bigoted attitudes...

We as a world society do not want hatred and violence in it... (hopefully)

those who promote these values through religious doctrine or otherwise will eventually become extinct (hopefully)

Personally I believe this will happen the day we realise that we are "human beings" not separated by race or creed, or even beliefs... but one species

This is OUR planet... its our ONLY home... and WE are KILLING IT

And we are not the only intelligent species in this universe...

a reply to: Nechash

Thank you for your thoughts. :-)

I'm not concerned about linear time overall. But, do recognize the now, as linear when observing it.

PS, I have a red rubber ball.

All are inherently corruptible, flawed, and deceptive. Organized religions are the creations of mankind. Used to justify oppressive and even evil acts toward other humans. To use fear in one form or another to trap souls into a misguided faith.

You are born into this world with everything you will ever need to guide you through this life and into the next. If you can avoid evil influences, and deceptions meant to lead you away from the only faith you should have.

Good luck.

make religiosity disappear? that would be a stretch since it has been with us throughout known history and within all cultures. we have a profound need to know why, to create, to justify, to personify and give meaning to events that impact us. Ultimately, we are an evolved predator with no known equals and all that brain power has got to do something.


a reply to: Not Authorized

I am not part of an organized religion, but I find this sort of thinking to be frightening. When you begin to take a section of the population and try to 'exterminate' them because you disagree with them I will be drawing a line in the sand against you and your planned persecution.

a reply to: Metallicus

You couldn't be further from the truth. Hence, stressing not violating rights. No one is calling for extermination of anything.

However, false ideas, are well, false. How would you react if someone came up to you, and told you the Earth is flat? You'd laugh, right? Why? Education. You know better. You might share it years later as an amusing anecdote.

This is true about everything in life.

Education is the exterminator of false ideas. Are you against education away from false ideas? What happens historically when fiction takes authority over sound thought? See Galileo.

Are you against education?

a reply to: Not Authorized

How do we solve this, moving forward, without infringing on their rights as outlined in a secular society?

You're right, can't change nobody.

Do what I did, stop going.

originally posted by: pheonix358
The very first thing to do is to remove the tax exemption status of all religions and treat them simply as corporations seeking to make a profit, for that is what they are doing.

I don't think anyone would have a problem with this if the government would stay out of the religion business. Huston would be a fine example of this.

Next it should be illegal for religions to get involved in politics. It should be individual people that make policy, not these huge monolithic organizations. It is just stupid to allow an autocratic organization with a single dictator (eg, The Pope) to try and tell ordinary citizens in a democracy how to live their lives and how to vote at elections.

Any 501c3 has to sign a document with the condition that it can't participate in the political process. But somehow the reverend Jackson and Sharpton seem to be exempt from this.

Lastly, threats of eternal damnation, torment in hell etc etc, should be treated similar to a threat to kill or harm. In mainstream society such threats are illegal and will land you in court. But in a religious setting, they are accepted and as such, the weak are preyed upon. If of course, the churches can prove eternal damnation in the fires of Hell, then fair enough, but that will not happen until hell freezes over.

This is laughable what does a DA do but threaten people everyday with a death sentence. The difference is the DA can act on his threat and the Priest can't.

The bottom line is that religion is a business and the business model has never changed. What churches get away with has changed over time and for the better.

Just as one example, how can you follow a church that burned people alive at the stake? How can you follow churches that are the most potent abusers of our children and to this very day, actively cover up these horrendous miss deeds.

No one forces people to follow any religion unless you're ISIS. If we took the stance that criminal activity such as child molestation negates an entire religion then the federal government should be disbanded immediately. Unless you consider satanic worship or witchcraft the cause of recent burning at the stake I am unaware of any current religions in the US doing so.

I am constantly amazed at the the irreprehensible stance towards religion when some sort of illegal activity happens, but in the federal government and it just gets glossed over. Since when is it acceptable for a sitting president to have a kill list and intentionally execute a US citizen without an arrest let alone a trial? The man got into office as one of his campaign promises being guantanamo prison needs closed because the inmates didn't get a trial. How rendition
was such a horrible thing and it happens under his watch. Never mind he resigned the patriot act into law without the media making the slightest peep. How many rights has this president and his administration trampled?

Lets apply this same line of thinking to everything.


P

originally posted by: Not Authorized
How do we solve this.

We CAN'T solve it.

The only one who can is God.

He hates religion even more than we do.

When he gets done, there will be no more religion... PERIOD.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
Education is the exterminator of false ideas. Are you against education?

What planet did you say you were from again?

Education is nothing more than indoctrination and no different from the MSM.

“Education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.” ~ Joseph Stalin

As another man without a high school diploma, I discovered many years ago that the "educated" class is generally not educated at all, it is mis-educated. The whole purpose of American (perhaps all "western") "higher education" is obviously to bring minds into lock step with "The Agenda." As a general rule, the less official American education a person has been exposed to, the greater his/her ration of common sense.

"Education" is Spiritual Suicide

a reply to: pheonix358

I like most of these ideas. 503c status needs to go. We could come up with plenty of reasons as to why. No reason to go into it here.

As for hate speech and eternal damnation. How do you reconcile that and freedom of speech? I don't agree with content, but, it is a right.

I would think a paradigm shift surrounding public perception of said talk, would be more beneficial and not limit freedoms. This is where I feel education is important. It is hard to talk doomfire to someone, if the person is educated and knows how to point out it is fiction before that point is even reached.

a reply to: Metallicus

I am not part of an organized religion, but I find this sort of thinking to be frightening. When you begin to take a section of the population and try to 'exterminate' them because you disagree with them I will be drawing a line in the sand against you and your planned persecution.

Exactly. The OP is proposing a conspiracy to discredit religion.

Speaking as an atheist and a liberal, I call the proposal obnoxious.

a reply to: Astyanax

No need for a conspiracy to discredit religion. They do a fine enough job on their own.

a reply to: Murgatroid

You just provided more than enough reasoning behind my op.

Thank you.

a reply to: Not Authorized

As for hate speech and eternal damnation. How do you reconcile that and freedom of speech? I don't agree with content, but, it is a right.

Answer this please, do you have right to tell your neighbor to turn down the music or you will burn down his house in an effort to burn his family alive.

Is that free speech or is that threatening life?

Try sending the President a threat to burn him over a fire and see how far the concept of free speech goes.

It seems to me that Religion has a free pass to threaten harm for an eternity if you don't join my club. This is usually referred to as stand over tactics.

P