The Cacophony of Discordant Truth - What the Qoheleth is going on here?

If you do a quick search on the Googles for any topic in religion, you quickly find a discordant cacophony of answers for any question you can ask. Do a quick search for the true meaning of the name Jesus. What do you find? One person says it means hail Zeus, while others say it is the Greek I­­ēsous, while others say it is Yeshu‘a and not Yeshua or Yahushua. Depending on the question you ask, you will receive a plethora of answers. Do a quick search of God's Google (Bible/Babel) and you receive the same answers. Do a quick search of any version of the Bible and you see different interpretations leading to vastly differing answers.

Given the average human's limited capacity to understand, is it any wonder we are deceived? Given the average human's lifespan, is it any wonder we leave this place unsure of where we have been or where we are headed? Given the nature of fading memory, is it any wonder we forget most of what we have known? Given the nature of involution, is it any wonder inconscience (amnesia) is the robber leaving us with nothing to show for our experience here in this place?

I have finally reached conclusions regarding religion, God and salvation. After several years of searching out the answers, I am left with two conclusions. With any form of information exchange, the quality of communication is the response you get. Entropy in information leads us to one place: poor communication. Of course, so is our response poor. Take a look at any average Christian and you see one thing: general apathy regarding their own scriptures. If a believer has moved away from apathy, you see confusion from what is examined. If confusion turns into perceived understanding, you see self-righteousness and dogma leading to judgment of others. To be honest, this is the state of most humans, religious or not. Atheism ends in the same state. Agnosticism leads to the same. In all cases, these are degrees of ignorance manifesting as inner turmoil and pride dividing mankind.

I agree with Qoheleth in Ecclesiastes 12. His words were selected carefully. His conclusion has been my conclusion in these last few threads. The ONLY name to call on is Elohim (Father). Any other name is a corruption of the original Genesis 1 creation. Consider these verses:

Ecclesiastes 12

9 Besides being wise, the spokesman also taught the people what he knew. He very carefully thought about it, studied it, and arranged it in many proverbs. 10 The spokesman tried to find just the right words. He wrote the words of truth very carefully.

11 Words from wise people are like spurs. Their collected sayings are like nails that have been driven in firmly. They come from one shepherd. 12 Be warned, my children, against anything more than these. People never stop writing books. Too much studying will wear out your body. 13 After having heard it all, this is the conclusion: Fear Elohim, and keep his commands, because this applies to everyone. 14 Elohim will certainly judge everything that is done. This includes every secret thing, whether it is good or bad.

It all boils down to one name. That name engaged the whole of creation in Genesis 1. From that starting point, a cacophony of words and books can only lead you back to the Father of it all. That name is Elohim / EL and his image is both male and female. He is both strength and a loving nature. God IS Love and Love keeps no records of wrongs. When this cacophony of archetypes and images fades, all of us will be translated back to the source from which we came. As Qoheleth tells you, every secret will be revealed. Good or bad, it will all all be known.

Conclusion (1):

Live accordingly. Only the good you do will be remembered. Only the love you share will return. Suffer on purpose. The robe (body) you will wear in the future, and the future crown (mind) you possess will depend on the quality of your walk with God the Father. One God. His will is to give and receive only. Thieves take. Jesus said it best:

Matthew 22

34 When the Pharisees heard that Yeshua had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 One of them, an expert in Moses’ Teachings, tested Yeshua by asking, 36 “Teacher, which commandment is the greatest in Moses’ Teachings?”

37 Yeshua answered him, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and most important commandment. 39 The second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’ 40 All of Moses’ Teachings and the Prophets depend on these two commandments.”

Conclusion (2):

Yahweh is the Lord from the OT. Jesus is the Lord (Adonai) from the New Testament. The verses above say to love the Lord. Which Lord? We know that the Lord of the Old Testament is difficult to love. Why? He shed blood. Can we know if the Lord of the OT is the same as the Son of God in the NT? No. The cacophony of discordant babel disallows us from this conclusion. We can speculate, but not know for sure. As you have seen from my threads, the best speculation from my examination is to say that Yahweh is the Son of God and Elohim is the Father. Ruach Elohim is the Mother, or Holy Spirit of God. According to Genesis 9, Elohim said that shedding of human blood would demand an accounting. As we follow Yahweh's wars on humanity, we see them end on the cross. After the cross, the wars have continued. What can we determine from this?

My only conclusion can possibly be that the cross has yet to fully solve the problem in Yahweh. That is to say, if Yahweh is the Son of God. The deceiver comes to steal, kill and destroy. We know this. We know that the adversary of man accuses man. Name one entity that has spoken in scripture that fits this description and you come to one name: that name is Yahweh.

As bad as this appears, we can say one thing: Jesus seems to flip this in a mirror. He points back to a Father, but never names the Father. He calls the Spirit of God the Holy Spirit, but never names the Spirit Ruach Elohim. Jesus says to love your enemies. He says to forgive enemies. He points back to the Lord, but does not name him Yahweh. Yahweh is not mentioned by name in the entire New Testament.

What can our conclusion be at this point regarding the Lord we must love with all our hearts? Communication is not sufficient to know.

My question to you if you have made it to this point: how can we answer the second conclusion, which is entirely inconclusive?

The last time Ruach Elohim is mentioned in the OT:

Ezekiel 11

23 Yahweh’s glory left the middle of the city and stopped above the mountain east of the city.

24 In this vision from the Ruach Elohim, the Ruach lifted me and brought me to the exiles in Babylonia. Then the vision I saw left me.

25 I told the exiles everything Yahweh had shown me.

The last time Yahweh was mentioned:

Malachi 4

5 “I’m going to send you the prophet Elijah before that very terrifying day of Yahweh comes. 6 He will change parents’ attitudes toward their children and children’s attitudes toward their parents. If not, I will come and reclaim my land by destroying you.”

Was His day the day on the Cross? We can't know. It is either possible he didn't know, or he wasn't the one on the cross. I return to the top of this thread. We can't know. It's not for us to know. Is it a struggle using us as pawns on a larger chess board?

What say you?

Excellent thread. Very well put.
When I look at the state of the world, I often think it all comes down to a good vs. evil scenario.
A cosmic chess match.

Did you mean cacophony? Sorry if I'm wrong.

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
Did you mean cacophony? Sorry if I'm wrong.

Cacophony. Yes. I'll correct. A good example of why we are such error to begin with. Limited intellect equals limited truth. I first checked this spelling (cacoffiny) on Google and it gave me so many examples, that I used the spelling it outlined. The very first one is a wrong spelling from the first link. You are right on the spelling.

The bible was written in a way to cause this cacophony, it is used to cause confusion and was written and put together with that end in mind. It IS for us to know, only the bible has muddied the waters so that it isn't as clear as it should be. All these metaphors, allegories, parables, euphemisms, etc. scattered all throughout the bible were put in place for one purpose and one purpose only: to cause differing views and interpretations thus causing division.

You may not want to accept it, which is why you say "we aren't meant to know", but the bible is a source of division and hate and has been used to justify atrocities throughout history.What is it that has deceived you? The bible of course, what else could it be? It is what you draw all your thread inspirations from and is what has caused you confusion ("we aren't meant to know").

The bible is Babel, what did Jesus say about babbling? Not to do it and that those who do it are hypocrites. The bible is an extremely long book full of all kinds of babbling, I don't think Jesus would approve of his name and image being associated with it.

originally posted by: ColeYounger
Excellent thread. Very well put.
When I look at the state of the world, I often think it all comes down to a good vs. evil scenario.
A cosmic chess match.

Yes. This is what I would expect if a Son made from a God rebelled. I assume that this level of intellect, memory and capacity for creative energy would be hard to wrangle in if gone bad. Can you imagine the work God would need to do to contain this level of ability? It makes you wonder how God could have allowed this given his capacity to be all knowing. My only conclusion here is that our universe is the thing that bottles up the Son long enough to train him how to be a Son. The Hermetic texts calls the Son the Cosmos. In other words, the entire material world is the Son, while matter / mater would be the mother, or what the Egyptians called ISIS. She is the veil keeping the Son from seeing beyond. A veil also covers the female from being known. The veil was torn in the first century, indicating to me that the Son was able to begin to look back to the Mother and Father.

Our current state of the world, with wars and bloodshed, indicates to me that the Son has not yet fully grasped what this means to be ruled by a Father and Mother. It's a question of authority. Until we are heeled / healed, we cannot fully grasp how we (humanity) are the cells of the Son's body on Earth. Just like a human is comprised of 50 trillion cells that die every seven years, I assume the pattern here shows us how we are the cells of the Son's body. Just as the stars are cells of the galaxy, so too are the planets electrons orbiting the star. It's all one universal pattern of repeating cycles in a circle. Go to work each day and return home. Baptism is the involution and rising to new life is the evolution. Volution means to revolve.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The bible is Babel, what did Jesus say about babbling? Not to do it and that those who do it are hypocrites. The bible is an extremely long book full of all kinds of babbling, I don't think Jesus would approve of his name and image being associated with it.

I do agree with you about the nature of Babel. We can read who was responsible for this and it is not mankind. We can read who was responsible for the Snake in the Garden, and again, not man. We can say hypocrite, and be correct in this. Who says shhhhh!? Harpocrates was the child Horus (son of God) with his finger over his mount as a child. He is known as the trickster (harpocrates).

You know my standard answer for these topics: Check my thread on Harpocrates and any other topic regarding the Son of God.

Follow this lead to the source and you get this quote:

"In late Greek mythology as developed in Ptolemaic Alexandria, Harpocrates (Ancient Greek: Ἁρποκράτης) is the god of silence. Harpocrates was adapted by the Greeks from the Egyptian child god Horus. To the ancient Egyptians, Horus represented the newborn Sun, rising each day at dawn. When the Greeks conquered Egypt under Alexander the Great, they transformed the Egyptian Horus into their Hellenistic god known as Harpocrates, a rendering from Egyptian Har-pa-khered or Heru-pa-khered (meaning "Horus the Child")."

You also get the feeling that everything about the Christian religion circles around Egypt and the Sun God Isis Ra and El, or Israel. Can we ever know?

Find an answer if you try, but you will be a hypocrite as you say.

What would Oprah/Harpo tell you? She seems to have lots of answers. How about Harpo Marx. He was silent. Doctors take an oath to do no harm. Is there a connection? All you get is misplaced concreteness.



Maybe this guy knows?

Do a search…, do a search…, do a search…

Instead of searching books and the internet I recommend doing a search of ones soul. You of all people should be familiar with Solomons wisdom about writing of books and knowledge making the soul weary?

How about Christ bidding us to look for the kingdom of Heaven within?

Everyone has an antenna to heaven as it were. Stop miring in text and attune that.

intrptr out.

originally posted by: intrptr
Do a search…, do a search…, do a search…

Instead of searching books and the internet I recommend doing a search of ones soul. You of all people should be familiar with Solomons wisdom about writing of books and knowledge making the soul weary?

How about Christ bidding us to look for the kingdom of Heaven within?

Everyone has an antenna to heaven as it were. Stop miring in text and attune that.

intrptr out.

As I said, I agree with what the Qoheleth said. He should know. He pointed us back to Elohim the Father. I look to that name. It's where the Aleph Bet (Father) starts. The Word is what letters are used for. As you say, that word is written into our hearts. Love others and know that God is Love. God is found among the weak and meek of Earth. That's the position he has taken. He didn't take the position of power, principality or King (Meleck). Who is God?

Easy: The Least of These. God can be found when you serve the least of all in this world. If you are served, keep in mind that you are taking the wrong position. The first (Pride) will be last and the last (Humility) will be first. Christ is both Aleph and Tav.

a reply to: AlephBet

As I said, I agree with what the Qoheleth said. He should know. He pointed us back to Elohim the Father. I look to that name.

Should be pointing back to you. Regarding personages or deities as the goal of worship is not the message. The message is how to learn to behave thorough improving ones character through learning how to listen thorough the conduit of ones own soul. Not putting jesus or God on a pedestal like a super star or King, whatever.

Worship in your soul, not a building or book or person.

The kingdom is found within not without. I know, useless lesson. The churches biggest ruse is to get you to focus outwards to others, to places and to text. The real thing is to learn how the people found the wisdom to write those texts.

you don't learn that from texts.

a reply to: intrptr

Well put, the bible is a distraction used to keep people from looking within themselves. People get so caught up in trying to unravel the riddles within it that they don't realize what those riddles are describing is within every single one of us.

The bible is an earthly (corrupted) copy of the heavenly truth within us. Those who get hung up on the allegories and metaphors miss their meanings.

I really don't want to be that person you know? LOL I got the pronounciation of that word wrong once and was corrected. It stands out in my mind now. I said kack a phoney to spell it phonetically. Emphasise on the first syllable instead on the second. a reply to: AlephBet

Isn't the whole book a metaphor for what Bill and Ted said in one sentence?
Be excellent to each other. a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

PS What you said was very pretty and sings the truth. a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

a reply to: AutumnWitch657

Jesus' words maybe, but the rest not so much. There are references to loving one another in the OT, but they are few and far between and are surrounded on all sides by war and destruction.

You'd think and all-powerful God would have gotten it right the first time around (OT), but for some reason he waits a few thousand years full of war and hate and people being lost and deceived (even until death) to decide to give us the "real deal" in Jesus.

The whole deal reeks of corruption and deceit, throwing in just enough truth to keep people chasing the bait.

I think it important to know that the bible is written in a format that the least intelligent among us must be able to understand and be able to gather a saving faith from. It wouldn't be right to make it so that only smart people could understand.

I once heard a story of slaves from Africa being saved from the illustrations alone from a version of the bible, not being able to understand the words.

Plus God's revelation through nature, according to Job, is enough to create a saving faith in the righteous, as all righteous men we're saved through their works before the coming of Jesus, or that live now without ever hearing the gospel.

The notion of God as revealed through nature is enough to leave all men without excuse, as the bible tells us. Abraham, Enoch, Noah, Job and many others were all righteous in the eyes of God long before Jesus came.

This is what Job meant when he said let the animals tell you, let the Earth teach you, etc. The revelation through nature is powerful, albeit mostly overlooked today, but not by me.

a reply to: AlephBet

Who is to blame then? If not the men who wrote and put the bible together then who? Yahweh? If Yahweh is the Son, and we are the Son (as you have stated many times), then mankind is still to blame because, as you said, we are the Son/Yahweh. Funny how Yahweh's actions mirrored those of mankind of the time.

Is God to blame? If so, why would you worship something that KNOWINGLY deceived you and billions of others throughout history? Who is the deceiver here? God? Yahweh? The bible? Or can it not be known? If so, that sounds like one of the "worthless mysteries" Enoch spoke of.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1


No blame from me. I am merely asking the questions. I believe all of it was a planned story from the beginning.

a reply to: AlephBet

Planned by who? Whoever planned it put the elements in place beforehand, including the deceptions. I assume you believe God planned it beforehand? If so he is the deceiver and cannot be God at all.

You're not avoiding the issue are you? You ask questions but don't glean the answers. I see this as a form of cognitive dissonance, not wanting to accept the answer that the story suggests.

You're so close, you understand that the bible stories mirror physics and have even realized that the image (Jesus) is ours, yet you haven't made that connection between God and us.

The bible mirrors the workings of life itself, it puts life's truths within riddles and metaphors in order to conceal them. The light is what your eyes see, the light creates an image of the world (womb) and that light is the light of the world (Jesus) where there is no darkness. The Father is the life (Spirit) within all living things, the Mother is the body or physical universe, and the Son (image) is the medium through which the Father experiences the motion of the Mother.

What happens when wind ( Father/Spirit) and water (Mother/world) come together? You get waves or "living waters", a.k.a. the Son of God. What happens when the wind goes away? You have water that is stagnant, you get a BODY that is not animated, or a dead body with no life within it.

The bible describes life itself, only in a convoluted and deceitful way. The answers you're looking for have been here all along.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If not, then he is not all knwing. Either he knew and allowed the destiny, or he didn't know and is not all knowing. Ezekiel 28 says the fault was found, meaning it was not known before that point. Creation was for a Lamb. What does the Bible say about the Lamb before creation? What does it say of us before creation? We were known. When was the life of the Lamb taken? Before creation.