Democrats threatening Democrats into going to the polls

a reply to: Grimpachi

I made it clear that your post was about 2001 and mine was about the extension. You seem to be denying that enough Democrats voted for the original bill to make it pass.
And yes I did compare the Patriot Act and the ACA for comparison, as only two GOP voted for ACA. Not to mention the dirty methods used to get Blue Dog Democrats to get on board.

This website says that Russ Feingold was theee only Senator to vote against the PATRIOT Act in 2001
educate-yourself.org...

And look how many Democrats vote for it
Schumer, Feinstein, Biden, Baucus, Dodd

Yep those sure all look like republicans

It says that 89 US Senators voted in favor of the extension in 2006. INCLUDING yours truly Senator O, and Dodd, Landrieu, Feinstein, HARRY REID, Schumer, BIden, Barbara Boxer, and JOHN KERRY!

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

You can call the facts "garbage" when they don't agree with your beliefs if you wish, ThirdEyeofHorus. What I said was clear, backed up by the facts of the votes.

Biden did introduce the Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995. It was in response to a terrorist act (Oklahoma City). As such, it did have elements that are similar to the Patriot Act; not surprising as both were the response of government to terrorism. And it's easy to find citations all over the net with Biden taking credit for "John Ashcroft's" bill.

So? I'm not going to go looking for it in the ATS records, but perhaps you'll just answer honestly: are you in the habit of trusting what Joe Biden has to say?

I have quoted facts. Here's a summary of the origin of what would be known as the USA PATRIOT Act :

Republican Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner introduced H.R. 3162 incorporating provisions from a previously sponsored House bill and a Senate bill also introduced earlier in the month. The next day on October 24, 2001, the Act passed the House 357 to 66, with Democrats comprising the overwhelming portion of dissent.

Patriot Act - Wikipedia

Here's the history and composition of the bill that Rep. Sensenbrenner introduced, continuing from the same source:

The Act itself came about after the September 11th attacks on New York City and the Pentagon. After these attacks, Congress immediately started work on several proposed antiterrorist bills, before the Justice Department finally drafted a bill called the Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001, introduced to Congress on September 19, 2001. This was introduced to the House as the Provide Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (PATRIOT) Act of 2001, and was later passed by the House as the Uniting and Strengthening America (USA) Act (H.R. 2975) on October 12.[9] It was then introduced into the Senate as the USA Act (S. 1510) where a number of amendments were proposed by Senator Russ Feingold, all of which were passed. The final bill, the USA PATRIOT Act was introduced into the House on October 23 and incorporated H.R. 2975, S. 1510 and many of the provisions of H.R. 3004 (the Financial Anti-Terrorism Act). It was vehemently opposed by only one Senator, Russ Feingold, who was the only Senator to vote against the bill.

As a backup for that summarized information, you can access additional history of the PATRIOT Act at the Library of Congress

Please clarify: Are you stating that all Democrats "pretend they are anti-war." If that is what you are stating, can you cite quotes from actual Democrats who actually said anything like that?

Speaking of providing quotes: I have never said anything similar to " it's just evil Republicans who are spying on Americans and assassinating people abroad." If you're going to pretend to quote me, would you at least do me the honor of actually quoting me (there's a actually a function for it here) rather than just making stuff up and pretending I said it?

Thanks.

originally posted by: Grimpachi

*snip*

In the entire history of the patriot act there have been a total of votes from parties opposing the patriot act.

50 votes from Republicans opposing the patriot act

340 votes from Democrats opposing the patriot act

Republicans love the patriot act 680% more than Democrats historically. They own that bill.

It takes some serious mental gymnastics and straight up lies to claim Democrats support the patriot act more than Republicans.

What an excellent summary of the facts of the matter, Grim! That really lays out what we've been trying to get across here.

Now about these letters that we sent out ...

EDIT: LOL. I actually did not agree with the tone or intent of the letters sent out as described in the OP. However, to see the simplest facts of what English words mean misused to try to gain political points ... when the facts are as certain as have been brought out here.

I just don't get it.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

I made it clear that your post was about 2001 and mine was about the extension. You seem to be denying that enough Democrats voted for the original bill to make it pass.

I never said that if that was your interpretation thats on you. You seem to have different definitions for words so it isn't surprising.

And yes I did compare the Patriot Act and the ACA for comparison, as only two GOP voted for ACA. Not to mention the dirty methods used to get Blue Dog Democrats to get on board.

Good for you but that was your post which I wasn't responding to to begin with but somehow you assumed I was even though my post was clearly marked as a response to Gryphon.

This website says that Russ Feingold was theee only Senator to vote against the PATRIOT Act in 2001
educate-yourself.org...

If you go back to where I listed everyone who voted against it you will see I clearly pointed out he was the only one. So whats your point other than he was a democrat?

And look how many Democrats vote for it
Schumer, Feinstein, Biden, Baucus, Dodd

Yep those sure all look like republicans

And look it was unanimous support for it with the republicans.

It says that 89 US Senators voted in favor of the extension in 2006. INCLUDING yours truly Senator O, and Dodd, Landrieu, Feinstein, HARRY REID, Schumer, BIden, Barbara Boxer, and JOHN KERRY!

Yeah no kidding. Let me ask do you make it a habit to post information I already posted.And again in 2006 not ne single republican voted against it in the senate only 13 in the house where there were 124 democrats that voted against it.

One would think you didn't read the post where I listed every vote on the matter in 2001, 2006, and 2011. Every single time there were multiples more democrats voting against the patriot act than republicans. That means there is virtually no chance of republicans ever repealing it where at least there is some chance with democrats. Which goes back to the point that it is obvious that republicans support the patriot act a hell of a lot more than democrats as the record has shown.

If you want to see the list of those who have voted against the patriot act I posted here is a link.www.abovetopsecret.com... BTW that was for 2001, 2006, and 2011.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Thanks I was a bit surprised when I was looking all that up and counting them. I had thought there would be more people on both sides opposing it but the senate was unanimous a couple time in support for the republicans. It goes against the rhetoric of smaller government and less intrusion. I am certain it will never be repealed under Republican control as the record shows they suffer from groupthink. I don't like the record for Democrats either but at least there are some who oppose it a lot more than the other party. It should be mentioned that there were some independant votes against it as well.

As far as the OP and vote shaming I don't like how they are doing it but I don't mind that it happens just the way they go about it. I read an article on how it is happening in Miami now and they are already listing names where some people as it stated vote on election day. My opinion about those shamed that do not vote is they should write their representatives and express their dissatisfaction. I am sure they will give them the attention they deserve.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Perfect, clear and reasonable way to outline over ten years of voting though. As I said.

Oh, goodness. I've said before that I would do away with government in a minute, if I had something functional to replace it with. My acceptance of a political party, recently, is more a matter of desperation than consideration.

It seems we're going to be pushed into one of two camps. I favor the one that doesn't think I should be burned at the stake, for any NUMBER of reasons, LOL.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I don't have a political party but on many issues I do lean left. I voted early already but before I did I took 2 days and looked up everyone. Most I had never heard of especially for judicial seats. Those were a headache to decide because there really isn't much to find on them so I looked up articles on past rulings for cases and from that I made up my mind. As far as elected officials went I mostly voted Democrat and NPA except for two Libertarians and one republican. For the governors seat I voted for Crist even though I favored the LBT candidate because he was the only one with a shot at beating Scott. I hate having to do it but the race is too close to risk Scott staying in. I don't particularly like Crist but I sure don't like Scott and his policies.

I probably researched more on this election than any other in the past so I am interested in the outcome. Oh yeah I voted yes to legalization.