The Ancient Methods of Softening Stone

a reply to: mcx1942

The only difficulty is that we have no difficulty finding old thing; we have also noted that civilizations leave massive archaeological footprints , 10's of millions of artifacts, yet we are to believe that a lost civilization left nothing but quarries, rubble and finished items behind - but no stone tools, burials, writing, pottery, habitations or other signs.

It doesn't add up

Can we expect another new thread on this next week? The last one is still warm.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Started FOUR days ago.

originally posted by: skalla
Can we expect another new thread on this next week? The last one is still warm.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Started FOUR days ago.

Seems we have a fad

can we have EVIDENCE not anecdote ?????????????????

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
can we have EVIDENCE not anecdote ?????????????????

Since usenet days the bird berry - etc. thing has been reported, tens of thousand of posts made.

No evidence that any substance softens stone so it can be cut and shaped and that it can be reharden.

I suspect we'll thousands and more thousands of posts in the future saying exactly the same thing and failing in exactly the same way.....

It's like how when the pyramids are mentioned 'poured concrete' automatically comes up along with Dunn's pyramid power - almost automatically.

To all 'soft stone believers':

Instead of posting about it.........

If there is such a substance please go find it.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: 6Taco6Smell6

but you cannot identify this aledged plant - or the chemical process of this aledged " stone softening "

lastly - stone that hand been " softened " shaped and rehardened would be very obvious - hint crystal structure and orientation

is there any evidence - or just more annecdotes ?

This website has a bunch of information and background stories about the plant and bird.

The bird is depicted with berries similar to the ones I identified. I guess that's a start
It looks pretty obvious that the structures have been shaped in such a manner. There are a few threads and one recent one showing it off.

originally posted by: 6Taco6Smell6

It looks pretty obvious that the structures have been shaped in such a manner. There are a few threads and one recent one showing it off.

The problem is it isn't obvious and they weren't shaped in such a manner. Other than that its a great idea. Can you demonstrate how it is done?

Nope


yeah

a reply to: Hanslune

In the thread I mentioned someone said that there was an episode of ancient aliens where a man demonstrates how a plant could have been used to soften stone and did it on camera. He never said which episode but I will try to find it considering there are 7 seasons.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: 6Taco6Smell6

If these people possessed such an amazing technology, why wouldn't they put the stones in molds and make uniformly sized bricks? Take a look at this wall from Machu Picchu:

I chose this picture because toward the bottom, the wall is fashioned similarly to those in the more popular images that have people talking about melting stone but as you look higher up the wall, you can observe a gradual transition as less and less time was spent finishing the stones until at the very top it looks like any other dry stacked stone.

The reason for the odd shaped blocks is it's a deliberate anti-earthquake building tech.

The mountain and high regions commonly have movement of the earth and quakes etc, so to counter vibrations, to prevent sympathetic vibrations in the blocks in a structure, which can resonate with one another if they are all uniform...odd sized and shaped blocks won't be 'in-tune' with each other during a quake or land shift.

a reply to: 6Taco6Smell6

I believe there are video of people using acid/liquids to dissolve rocks. There is however, AFAIK no demonstration of 'softening a rock', working it and the re-hardening.

The above is the holy grail served with a five course 3 star Michelin meal, you're coming up with a cracked shot glass and a piece of over cooked veal with a caper on it.

originally posted by: skalla
Can we expect another new thread on this next week? The last one is still warm.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Started FOUR days ago.

This thread is about the plant/substance used with the hopes of introducing the concept to people or finding others who have information to share about it. I should have specified that it was about the plant in the title.

a reply to: MysterX

That might be true or.....

This was also due to the Inca and earlier builders using what stones they found which had broken away, ie rock falls and they used what they found. they also tended to put the heavier stones lower down and put the lighter stones up higher.

That may have been on purpose or a happy accident.

originally posted by: Hanslune
a reply to: mcx1942

The only difficulty is that we have no difficulty finding old thing; we have also noted that civilizations leave massive archaeological footprints , 10's of millions of artifacts, yet we are to believe that a lost civilization left nothing but quarries, rubble and finished items behind - but no stone tools, burials, writing, pottery, habitations or other signs.

It doesn't add uup

perhaps they were more fastidious with their ecological foot print and most of what they used for tech quickly decomposed...

I''ve stayed in other threads that I do not find it inconceivable they used a substance to make hammering on the stone easier, but to state they completely dissolved and reformed it in molds to ne is anythin far stretch of the evidence we see.

originally posted by: Jarocal

originally posted by: Hanslune
a reply to: mcx1942

The only difficulty is that we have no difficulty finding old thing; we have also noted that civilizations leave massive archaeological footprints , 10's of millions of artifacts, yet we are to believe that a lost civilization left nothing but quarries, rubble and finished items behind - but no stone tools, burials, writing, pottery, habitations or other signs.

It doesn't add uup

perhaps they were more fastidious with their ecological foot print and most of what they used for tech quickly decomposed...

I''ve stayed in other threads that I do not find it inconceivable they used a substance to make hammering on the stone easier, but to state they completely dissolved and reformed it in molds to ne is anythin far stretch of the evidence we see.

The new agers idea, people who somehow manage to live and develop high technology while using no technology. Usually this boils down to ideas about mental powers and such. Well most of their work doesn't look remotely like it came out of molds. One interesting thing I have notice about the images that are put up is that we always see the front - public view - of the walls and not the backs - I wonder why that is? lol

In 1987 Vincent R. Lee, an architect, proposed the Inca fit their stone blocks using a known method of scribing and coping. He demonstrated this method in a 1995 NOVA program titled "Inca." In this program, he suspends a stone block above the spot it will be scribed to, using wood blocking (logs, shims, etc.). The block will already be squared up roughly along the edge, the face will be finished. Now he begins to use the scribe, which can be made out of any material. A wooden triangle, always held at the same angle (or held plumb with the aid of a plumb bob). So long as the scribe is held at the same angle and remains the same spacing, it can trace the outline of one stone onto the face of the other. The backside is not scribed, it just needs to be shaped roughly to provide some backcut. After scribing and chipping the stone with finer and finer cuts, a simple abrading block 'sands' the block to the scribe line. Then the block is lowered into position to test it for fit. The process is repeated until the fit is perfect. In the video, a couple modern masons recreated the effect and only spent about 4 hours getting a large block to fit with a high degree of precision. One can expect the ancient Inca who were talented in scribing and coping masonry were highly prized.

Page 5 and 6 of this ATS thread



As seen from an overhead view, backcutting provides a relief to allow the mason to only have to scribe just the leading edge, making fitting much less time consuming. You now only have to tool a narrow width of stone, instead of the entire depth of the block. Vincent Lee shows some blocks in Inca walls were back cut. This should render the notion these blocks were "melted" or molded into place null and void.

Howdy Blackmarketeer

I've seen that and this image demonstrates the idea also

originally posted by: Hanslune
Howdy Blackmarketeer

I've seen that and this image demonstrates the idea also

People don't honestly believe all the surfaces for the blocks were finished like an outward face do they? On a wall with a rubble infill between two wall courses the backcut wall will last better as the infill settles over time.

Even adobe blocks were not traditionally completely flat on all faces due to the method of casting.

I can imagine the speculation that would arise if evidence of a timbrel or Catalan arch ever arises in an ancient site.

You would not need to have it re-harden to use it to fit two rocks tightly together. You just need it to "melt" enough of the two rocks edge where they meet to have them fuse tightly together.

originally posted by: Xeven
You would not need to have it re-harden to use it to fit two rocks tightly together. You just need it to "melt" enough of the two rocks edge where they meet to have them fuse tightly together.

You would still need to remove all the material that has been afaffected or weathering over time would deposit all those particles in the soil right at the base of the wall and somewhere in the stratigraphy would be a layer of stone dust which could be analyzed and show how the stone was chemically altered. Not to mention the blocks are not fused, just expertly shaped.

a reply to: 6Taco6Smell6

Ephedra Andina sounds like a plant with an active component for stimulant and concentration aid. Maybe this plant and its properties had become a myth among the inca because of its 'miraculous' effect on humans. Maybe the axtract of his plant and its energetic effect on people was considered the only way these rocks could have been shaped.

Read about Ephedra HERE